Ex-UCK commander is the new Macedonian defense minister

[Gocka]

So much to say, where to begin,
1) Just look at the way the shiptar smirked at Angelov when he mentioned that he shot at and may have killed Macedonians. You can just see it in his "stav" that he has no respect what so ever for our country or our people. How can that piece of shit be head of the army?
2) Angelov has my utmost respect for not jumping across the table and strangling him to death, I have no idea how he was able to stay so cool in spite of the shiptar clearly being dismissive. If I was in the same position I wouldn't have made it 15 seconds without trying to stab him with my pen.
3) Could he have said babi i zabi anymore like a shiptar?
4) Where the fuck did they find the translator, He speak like craps and knows less Macedonian then the other two. Xhaferi was speaking for like 3 minutes and the translator would stumble and come back with 1 word when clearly Xhaferi said like a paragraph.
5) From what I did understand of Xhaferi's arguments he sounds like a complete fumbling idiot and he did not make 1 good point the entire time.
6) Angelov I thought was very professional and spoke well and clearly. He made many very good points and was firm the whole time and direct. I loved when he said I don't hate him, I don't like him but I don't hate him haha. I thought he handled everything very well.
7) Angelov understands Albanian?
8) The mediator could not have been more biased and at one point he asked Angelov "and where does he live now" WTF is that supposed to mean and what significance does that hold?
9) The shiptars entire argument revolved around the notion that what Angelov is doing is not lawful and he shouldn't be doing it. "its not in the spirit of the peace" and putting a person who fought against the army to be its head is in the spirit of the peace?
10) looking at Xhaferi and looking at Angelov was almost funny and at the same time infuriating. Angelov could probably rip that guy's head off and he was a "commander". It infuriates me because if the USA and NATO did not interfere It think we would not be in this mess and I think we would have cleansed out a lot of the extremist shit for good.

I really pray to god that Angelov is only using Crvenko and the Bugarin as a springboard to get himself and his party out there and that he dumps them as soon as they can hold their own. Right now he is the closest thing we have to hope. He is the only one who is at least on TV and in public saying what all of us are thinking, the rest of them are like lap dogs to the shiptars. I really hope we are wrong about him and that he is the real deal. Macedonia really needs something to step up and step up soon.

[Vangelovski]

Angelov has been dissapointing in this interview, mainly in that he appears to have accepted the Framework Agreement and is calling for coexistence along the principals of the FA. He was one of the few that actually publicly opposed it up until recently, but it appears he's "moderated" on the issue.

[Niko777]

Поздрав на Стојанче �нгелов и Талат �афери - YouTube

[Risto the Great]

At least he gives it to him consistently. If he can clear some of the gjubre around him, he may be a hope for the Macedonians.

[Pelagon]

Angelov has been dissapointing in this interview, mainly in that he appears to have accepted the Framework Agreement and is calling for coexistence along the principals of the FA. He was one of the few that actually publicly opposed it up until recently, but it appears he's "moderated" on the issue.

Can you provide any published (and publicly viewable) evidence for how and when he publicly opposed the capitulationist treasonous "Framework Agreement"?

[Pelagon]

Отворено со Талат Џафери, министер за одбрана
„Во многу блиска иднина ќе одиме на заедничко поклонение и во Слупчане и на Карпалак“

Фактот што сум бил учесник и командант на УЧК зборува за минатото на Република Македонија. Ова не е прв случај во практиката припадник на УЧК да биде на должноста министер, односно заменик-министер. Ова е достигнување на одредбите на рамковниот договор, во чија суштина основна флоскула е градењето помирување по настаните во 2001 година, вели министерот Џафери.

[....]

Фактот што сум бил учесник и командант на УЧК зборува за минатото на Република Македонија. И во тој контекст политичките субјекти преку потписот што го ставиле на Охридскиот рамковен договор прифатиле дека до тоа време во Република Македонија во однос на заедниците се воделе погрешни политики. И како резултат на тие погрешни политики дојде до ескалација на трпението на граѓаните. Таа ескалација е затворена со рамковниот договор.

[....]
Стојанка Митреска

Следува продолжение од интервјуто со министерот за одбрана Талат Џафери.
http://www.mkd.mk/makedonija/politik...slupchane-i-na

The above is lengthy interview with the UCK Minister and you can all see that it all comes down to the signing, ratifying and full implementation of the capitulationist "F.A.".

IMO, Macedonians have the following two clear options:
1 Fully oppose and fight to abolish the treasonous agreement and never give it any legitimacy or legal validity. This of course would lead to an armed conflict with the Ghegs/UCK and Macedonians would need to fight to the end and hope to win.

2. Continue to be a subservient [xxxx] and await the eventual (in approx. 20-30 years) total domination of the UCK/Ghegs of this ramkovist quasi state and face the same destiny as the Serbs in Kosovo.

[Big Bad Sven]

The above is lengthy interview with the UCK Minister and you can all see that it all comes down to the signing, ratifying and full implementation of the capitulationist "F.A.".

IMO, Macedonians have the following two clear options:
1 Fully oppose and fight to abolish the treasonous agreement and never give it any legitimacy or legal validity. This of course would lead to an armed conflict with the Ghegs/UCK and Macedonians would need to fight to the end and hope to win.

2. Continue to be a subservient [xxxx] and await the eventual (in approx. 20-30 years) total domination of the UCK/Ghegs of this ramkovist quasi state and face the same destiny as the Serbs in Kosovo.

Option 2 sounds more likely. Most macedonians have given up. When i was there last time i was advised not to go to Tetovo, Kumanovo or Debar, as they were 'albanian towns". Better to stay in Ohrid and drink with the locals was the better option i was told

[MKPrilep]

http://www.mkd.mk/makedonija/politika/policijata-vchera-masovno-apseshe-niz-skopski-chair

Во пресрет на денешниот протест на Албанците во Скопје
Полицијата вчера масовно апсеше низ скопски Чаир
Триесетина лица од скопски Чаир, сите учесници на минатонеделните насилни протести во Скопје, биле уапсени вчера вечерта во голема полициска акција.
.

[Vangelovski]

Can you provide any published (and publicly viewable) evidence for how and when he publicly opposed the capitulationist treasonous "Framework Agreement"?

Yes, I can, but I'd have to go through my files. I'm talking pre-2011 election...maybe a bit earlier.

[Pelagon]

Yes, I can, but I'd have to go through my files. I'm talking pre-2011 election...maybe a bit earlier.

Don't bother searching and wasting time.

There are a few Macedonians (Mirka Velinovska being one that comes to mind) that even now will publicly state that the FA was an act of capitulation and that it is an illegitimate agreement but I can not think of any major public personality in recent years that has called for its revocation/annulment. Thus I would doubt that Stojance Angelov (or Dostoinstvo) has ever called for the revocation/annulment of the FA in the last 5 years or so but he may have claimed that it was an act of capitulation.

[Pelagon]

Option 2 sounds more likely. Most macedonians have given up. When i was there last time i was advised not to go to Tetovo, Kumanovo or Debar, as they were 'albanian towns". Better to stay in Ohrid and drink with the locals was the better option i was told

Ohrid is pretty close to Struga and is one of next designated domino towns in line for UCK control and domination. Let the Ohridians enjoy their fun whilst it lasts.

[Pelagon]

google translate:

TMRO: The political crisis is a bluff


The so-called political crisis in Macedonia, more like an artificial product in order to distract attention from the imminent 'more certain Macedonian loss Kicevo and full implementation of the 2004 fatal territorial division, said in a statement TMRO.

"There is no other explanation for indolentniot and disinterested regard Macedonians poizvesnoto loss Kicevo vs. Albanian manifestation of unity with one candidate and one list, but above all the 20 charter planes and 60 buses with organized carrying voters across Europe and America, date glasanjeto.Dali will izlezela part of the opposition or not the election is completely irrelevant compared to it, whether it was necessary to make a maximum effort and organization organized carrying Macedonian emigrants from Kichevo across Europe, and before a generally acceptable candidate for mayor Macedonian ", adds the report.

"The responsibility for the possible loss of Kicevo after March 24 will be a historical text, but will have far-reaching consequences for the Macedonian ethnos. In the interest of national interests TMRO will stand behind Macedonian choice in Kicevo order proclaiming unity, "President TMRO Ivan Sehtanski.

izvor: http://www.netpress.com.mk/mk/vest.a...3&kategorija=3

Very good point about DIVERSIONARY TACTICS/ACTIONS/METHODS of the ruling establishment to always keep in mind on just about anything that happens in Macedonia (or elsewhere).

[Pelagon]

The following is some info for you to read and ponder on:

'Free' Macedonia Faces Hostile World - New York Times [1992]

"....Macedonia stands on the brink of independence, as one of four republics that have voted to secede. Each day, trucks make the 310-mile journey from the Macedonian capital, Skopje, to Belgrade, the Yugoslav and Serbian capital, withdrawing men and equipment from the 40,000-member Yugoslav Army garrison. Not Without Regret

IN MANY NEW NATIONS, IT WOULD BE A TIME FOR FLAGS AND ANTHEMS. But here, the mood is subdued, as though many of Macedonia's 2.3 million people feel that independence is coming at too high a price, and in a way that could yet generate problems more burdensome than half a century of Communism. AT BEST, MANY OF THE GOVERNMENT LEADERS RESPONSIBLE FOR ESTABLISHING THE NEW STATE APPEAR TO BE GOING ABOUT THEIR TASKS RELUCTANTLY, WITH ONE EYE ON WHAT THE REPUBLIC HAS LOST.

"IN THE PAST, WHEN I HEARD PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT INDEPENDENCE, I USED TO SAY, 'QUIET, QUIET, WE ARE NOT MUCH BIGGER THAN A SUBURB OF LONDON OR NEW YORK," SAID JANE MILJOVSKI, A 44-YEAR-OLD ECONOMICS PROFESSOR, WHO IS ALSO MINISTER FOR PRIVATIZATION.

LJUBOMIR FRCKOVSKI, THE INTERIOR MINISTER, A CONSTITUTIONAL LAW PROFESSOR WHO IS 34 YEARS OLD, SAID, "WE ALL FEEL SOME REGRETS." ..."

http://www.nytimes.com/1992/04/01/world/free-macedonia-faces-hostile-world.html

Албански комунистички лидери имале план да посвојат дел и од Македонија

"Комунистичките лидери на Албанија, тогаш најзатворена европска диктатура, на своите тајни состаноци кон крајот на 70-те и почетокот на 80-те години планирале воена операција „Шпертими“ (Експлозија) против Југославија, пишува денеска загрепскиот весник Јутарњи лист [http://www.jutarnji.hr/operacija-eks...mrti/1088309/].

Според пишувањето на весникот, со таа операција Албанија, по смртта на Јосип Броз Тито кога ќе почнат внатрешните клановски борби за власт во Југославија, со брза акција на својата армија планирала да го присвои Косово и делови на Македонија и од Црна Гора.

Во текстот „Тајна операција - Експлозија“, стои како Енвер Хоџа се подготвувал за „хаосот по Тито“...."

http://www.plusinfo.mk/vest/82842/Albanski-komunistichki-lideri-imale-plan-da-posvojat-del-i-od-Makedonija

За нас македонците! -- Тодор Петров

"...Политиките и интересите на Белград и Атина продолжија и по Втората Светска Војна. Затоа, ние бевме Македонија и во поранешна Југославија, но со забранета историја и археологија. Нашето идеологизирано образование, во орвеловата перална на мозоци, не учеше за историја и археологија меѓу актуелните граници од 1944 година, никако подолу и никако повеќе отколку што другите за нас велеа дека треба.

Зошто (о)станавме Словени? Многу едноставно, за секогаш да не’ потсетуваат: Вие сте дојдени од зад Карпатите, ова не е Ваше, ова е наше! Македонија е грчка! Македонија е грчка сопственост и грчко е нејзиното наследство. Инаку, како ќе се легализираше грчката окупација на Македонија и грчкиот геноцид врз Македонците од Балканските војни во 1912 година.....

....Поентата на елоквенцијава беше за корените, потеклото, сопственоста и наследството ... Едно време и во Албанија владееше еден романтизам, па пишуваа истории дека се Илири. Светот им се смееше, па самите се зауздија и подзастанаа, затоа што и Хрватите велат дека се Илири, Илирија била понасевер во Далмација, а не во Албанија. Па, станаа Дарданци иако и тие биле Македонци. Денес, во Македонија, Албанците повторно се врзаа за таа теза. Тие велат, ние сме Илири, староседелци, и ова е наше. Не случајно против македонската енциклопедија во Тетово демонстрираа со жолти маички на кои со црни букви пишуваше “Македонско-Илирска Фаланга“, го затворија кругот и се вратија во јатото. Продолжуваат: Вие, од зад Карпатите, вратете си се таму. Велат, ние си договоривме приказна. Тоа што Вие не знаете кои сте и од каде сте, не е наш проблем. Токму така. Наш проблем не се соседите, ги знаеме кои се тие, што сакаат и зошто се против нас. Проблем се сијамските Бранко и ЉуБчо, Тито и Стојан. Тие ја транзитираат Македонија зад Карпатите, оти треба да ги одработат парите на другите и туѓите за да не нема. Тие, давениците ... Кога го губат тлото под нозе, да може цел свет би го повлекле со себе, затоа што знаат дека повеќе нема да ги има ..." http://www.maktel.mk/ajax_kolumni.php?kid=5

You should fully read the above info and make an analysis of it in order to understand why Macedonians are where they are at ideologically (retarded) and why "Albanians" are where they are at.

In short, you have Enver Hoxa (in the 1970s) planning for the taking over of territories in the SFRY, with an obvious strong nationalist agenda, and the SERKOVCI under Gligorov in 1992 still undecided about national independence and reluctant to let go of their "Yugolsavia". Those ideological differences have carried over into RM and the equation is clearly in favour of Gheg ("Albanian") nationalism!

See I have been through the paces a million times by now, the complexity of the situation has been discussed a million times by now by me by everyone on here, the reason for the simplistic and shallow post is simple, I am enraged. You can blame anyone and anything you want but at the end of the day they are just excuses if Macedonians can't even take the basic steps needed. What can an observer do except become enraged, surely they did nothing worthy of praise?

Macedonians all over the world are affected (their very identity and heritage is undermined and at risk of being obliterated) by the policies and actions of the capitulationist Vassal ruling circles in RM and there is no reason (except that they may suffer the same ideological shortcomings and/or are under the influence of the ideological propaganda emanating from the republic) they can not take political action in their own countries against those denationalising politics and ideologies. Why is it not possible to organise a protest in front of diplomatic offices of the republic or just in a public space against the Framework Agreeemnt, Interim Accord and any other anti-Macedonian deeds and actions promoted by the ruling circles in Skopje?

I did call for us to come together and see what we can do, and I still do, but from a far all we can really do is give tactical support and help spread our message to the countries we reside in, which is what we do. I cannot organize a protest for Macedonians in ROM, I can organize one where I live though, but if people in ROM are not protesting, I can't protest on their behalf without looking like a complete idiot. I can't b ring up issues and fight for something that Macedonians themselves won't fight for.

Do it - organise a protest where you live! If it is effective, well organised and with sufficient turnout, it WILL motivate people in the republic (and elswhere) to take similar actions, IMO!

You've got to be kidding me? Well this comment only confirms what I suspected; that you are an apologist and a defeatist.

I am not an apologist but (Diaspora) people living in glass houses (i.e. not leading by example and organising opposition amongst their midst) should NOT throw stones!

IMO, the DIASPORA, with small exceptions, is worse or no different in its response to all the national tragedies that have been engulfing Macedonia and Macedonians over the last decade or so and thus should direct its criticism at itself more so than to ordinary Macedonian people in the republic. Though, IMO, targeting the intelligentsia in the republic is fair game as it is they who are capable of leading or misleading the Macedonian Cause.

No progress should be expected? They are not blind ok, they know very well what is happening and they will tell you to your face exactly what is happening, but if you ask him what he is going to do about it the best you can hope for is a shrug and a lame excuse. They are not nearly as ignorant as you would like to make them to be.

There is daily and constant brainwashing going on and that has its logical effects. The biggest problem is the COMPLIANT INTELLIGENTSIA and lack of critical mass media to propagate patriotism and opposition to the vassal politics currently predominant there.

This is exactly what most of us on here try to accomplish and at the end of the day this is what we are capable of doing. In Macedonia we are considered outsiders, we do not have the credentials to go there and convince anyone of anything, THAT IS THE JOB OF PEOPLE IN ROM.

Organise yourself in the Diaspora and come up of with sufficiently large sums of $$$ and you will be able to generate (and organise) support and influence.

[Vangelovski]

Don't bother searching and wasting time.

There are a few Macedonians (Mirka Velinovska being one that comes to mind) that even now will publicly state that the FA was an act of capitulation and that it is an illegitimate agreement but I can not think of any major public personality in recent years that has called for its revocation/annulment. Thus I would doubt that Stojance Angelov (or Dostoinstvo) has ever called for the revocation/annulment of the FA in the last 5 years or so but he may have claimed that it was an act of capitulation.

I am quite certain that he used to denounce it but you may be right in that he never explicitly called for its revocation.

[Risto the Great]

I was watching the Albanian protesters on Macedonian news earlier today. Running up to the police and attacking then with bats/sticks. The police were in full riot clothing but didn't even bother to drag the pricks to jail for the night. These maggots were aiming for their knees and any other exposed areas. The police are inviting more of the same from these lawless maggots.