Miroslav Grčev - The Traitor

[Vangelovski]

That sentence was in relation to Risto's comment, your statement above is irrelevant.. But I would expect nothing else from someone that has not lived in Macedonia, yet believes he is an expert in daily life.

I know it was in relation to RtG's comment and it is directly relevant, you're just incapable of understanding it. What do you mean by "daily life"? Tell me, why does someone have to live in Macedonia to know and understand what is happening?

Why does it matter WHO put the argument forward if it is correct?

[Volk]

I know it was in relation to RtG's comment and it is directly relevant, you're just incapable of understanding it. What do you mean by "daily life"? Tell me, why does someone have to live in Macedonia to know and understand what is happening?

If you dont know what daily life means and how living somewhere is relevant in understanding it i suggest you reset your education and start again.

[Vangelovski]

If you dont know what daily life means and how living somewhere is relevant in understanding it i suggest you reset your education and start again.

No, I suggest you back up your BS statements and explain the need to live somewhere in order to understand whether it is a democratic state or not. I don't live in North Korea, but I'm able to determine that it is not a democratic state. Same for Macedonia.

Daily life can mean anything, from the food we eat to the sports we play. What do YOU mean by it?

[Volk]

Risto, I am going to repeat this because I dont want it being lost amongst Vangelovski's garbage:

Picking such a dubious source for Macedonia's "dictatorship", Miroslav Grcev (who actually designed the current glorious flag LOL) & is sleeping in bed with such anti- Macedonians like Branko Crvenkovski & Vladimir Milcin really adds weight to YOURS and HIS argument.

I understand what your trying to do in this thread but by picking such enemies of Macedonians as a basis for it, (which stance is identical to that of our southern neighbors) your going the wrong way about it.

Further by portraying Macedonia as a fasicst country your in fact helping our enemies.

[Vangelovski]

Risto, I am going to repeat this because I dont want it being lost amongst Vangelovski's garbage:

Picking such a dubious source for Macedonia's "dictatorship", Miroslav Grcev (who actually designed the current glorious flag LOL) & is sleeping in bed with such anti- Macedonians like Branko Crvenkovski & Vladimir Milcin really adds weight to YOURS and HIS argument.

I understand what your trying to do in this thread but by picking such enemies of Macedonians as a basis for it, (which stance is identical to that of our southern neighbors) your going the wrong way about it.

Volk, are you not able to substantiate your own comments? Why is it that you have difficulty in acertaining whether or not Macedonia is a democracy? Why is it that you believe that one needs to live there in order to know this? Are you unaware of North Korea's political system?

What is the relevance of who provided the analysis when his analysis is correct? Are you unable to understand the substantive issues involved? Is the 'messenger' that important to you?

Volk, who is portraying Macedonia as a "fascist" country? You are the only one to have used that concept. Do you even know what facism is?

[Bill77]

Its not ridiculous at all. In fact, its probably the most accurate way to describe the Macedonian Government regardless of the four yearly election cycle.

Its that i just think "soft dictatorship" is a contradiction. You can't be soft, and dictate with a iron fist.

[Vangelovski]

Its that i just think "soft dictatorship" is a contradiction. You can't be soft, and dictate with a iron fist.

Grcev will have to explain what he means by 'soft', but Macedonia definatley fits the characteristics of a dictatorship in my view.

[George S.]

the macedonian govt seems to be going in the opposite direction.It's like living in parralel universes.You got murphy's law anything that can go wrong will be wrong.You got the name negotiations not stopping even when greece said they are going to stop.
Then you got these agreements existing & the interim agreement the govt is feeling bound in some waywhen the govt should call them null & void.
You got the slave mentality & mindset of compromise & capitulation.Strong will & positive direction is missing,the mindset of wanting freedom not just a part of macedonia but the whole of macedonia.So let's look at what macedonia has achieved in tha last 20 years of independence.It is difinetely boirdering on nothing as whatever anything of positive nature has been achieved it has been quickly surrendered to the albanians as a loss of sovereignity.THe country is still known as fyrom with the un.THey haven't adopted the constitutional name yet.We are too scared to name anything by our historical figures like alexander.or phillip..The macedonian govt cannot shake the slave mentality it is stuck with.

[Soldier of Macedon]

I believe DPmNE is destroying the Macedonian nation in a way that is less immediate than SDSm would if given the opportunity.

Both DPNE and SDS play the same game where it concerns job opportunities, basically, if you're with the party you're in, if you're not you're out. Where it concerns the betrayal of Macedonian interests, I actually think that the DPNE leaders are more sneaky and 'subtle' (and more dangerous in the long run) whereas SDS leaders have a more 'immediate' manner, which could, ironically (if they were in government), finally force the Macedonian people into some sort of positive (re)action.

By the way, the person mentioned in the original article (Grcev) is also the same individual who designed the 'ventilator'.

[Volk]

Volk, are you not able to substantiate your own comments? Why is it that you have difficulty in acertaining whether or not Macedonia is a democracy? Why is it that you believe that one needs to live there in order to know this? Are you unaware of North Korea's political system?

What is the relevance of who provided the analysis when his analysis is correct? Are you unable to understand the substantive issues involved? Is the 'messenger' that important to you?

Volk, who is portraying Macedonia as a "fascist" country? You are the only one to have used that concept. Do you even know what facism is?

Most of your pointless questions have been answered care to re-read my posts.

Who determines that an analysis is correct? is there a body that determines this? Or is the media used to control public opinion?
If you cannot see the relevance of the "messenger", particularly when they have an obvious political motive, again, reset your education.

The greeks agenda is to portray the Macedonian government as a Facist dictatorship, lets help them out, oh sorry we'll be nice and only call them a soft dictatorship.

[EgejskaMakedonia]

I don't believe it is a dictatorship at all. A dictatorship generally consists of an individual or small group managing the nation through an autocratic system of government. If anything, Gruevski and co. are quite the opposite. They bow down to external pressures as opposed to forming their own set of decisions. I think our government is a soft and passive group, but certainly not a dictatorship. In fact, far from it.

[Vangelovski]

Most of your pointless questions have been answered care to re-read my posts.

Who determines that an analysis is correct? is there a body that determines this? Or is the media used to control public opinion?
If you cannot see the relevance of the "messenger", particularly when they have an obvious political motive, again, reset your education.

The greeks agenda is to portray the Macedonian government as a Facist dictatorship, lets help them out, oh sorry we'll be nice and only call them a soft dictatorship.

Get off the drugs Volk. You haven't answered anything. You still have not even attempted to tell us why someone has to live in Macedonia in order to be able to determine whether it is a democracy or not. The messenger in this case is irrelevant because the evidence (if you even knew what it was or where to look) shows that he's right.

There are huge differences between dictatorships and facist regimes. You might want to look into it, but I doubt you will.

Don't you get tired of being the village idiot?

[Vangelovski]

I don't believe it is a dictatorship at all. A dictatorship generally consists of an individual or small group managing the nation through an autocratic system of government. If anything, Gruevski and co. are quite the opposite. They bow down to external pressures as opposed to forming their own set of decisions. I think our government is a soft and passive group, but certainly not a dictatorship. In fact, far from it.

EM, Macedonia is managed by a small group of political elites - in fact, they are the same clowns that have been around since "independence" in 1991.

Some reasons as to why Macedonia is NOT a democratic state:

1. It is yet to hold a national election that has not been tainted by mass electoral fraud, including forcing citizens to become party members in order to gain state employment and then forcing them to vote for the party if they want to keep their jobs. Some other classic techniques include rounding up whole villages and forcing them to vote for the party by controlling the supply of voting slips by marking them and using a number of scams including the ‘train ride’.

2. It is yet to hold a referendum that has not been manipulated by the governing party, for example, the law on local decentralisation.

3. It is yet to implement consultative mechanisms for public participation in the development of public policy and legislation. Current practice in Macedonia is for the Government to enact a law and then announce it to the public. In democracies, government’s consult extensively with the public, drafting and redrafting laws to meet the needs and interests of the widest range of society as possible before they are enacted in Parliament.

There are many more, but it gets very complicated and peanut brains like Volk will clutter the thread with illinformed and stupid commentary attempting to deny them.

[Volk]

Vangelovski your so funny, PLEASE prove to the whole forum how and why the Macedonian government is a dictatorship, PLEASE

[Bill77]

By the way, the person mentioned in the original article (Grcev) is also the same individual who designed the 'ventilator'.

Is that so?
Great observation mate. So a person with a name like "Miroslav" that designed the ventilator, must be questioned about his motives.

Bill, do you accept that your chance of succeeding in Macedonia is heavily reliant on being in favour with the DPmNE ruling coalition? That if you oppose the DPmNE coalition, you will have no chance?

No its not acceptable at all. This is corruption and bribery in my eyes. But then again both major parties are guilty of this (i'm not excusing VMRO at all). Infact its a European thing, the whole region and continent are corrupt and to add arrogant.