Alexander statue arrived in Skopje

[lavce pelagonski]

Aleksandar placi sto se vika vojn na kojn

[lavce pelagonski]

[lavce pelagonski]

[Pelister]

Some of the best language to come from a Macedonian in 20 years.

Macedonia Gets a Statue of Alexander the Great

A crowd of several hundred people gathered in Skopje’s central square to watch the lifting of the 30 ton bronze statue. It depicts Alexander the Great on his mighty stallion Bucephalus. The statute is 92 feet tall from the bottom of the pedestal to the tip of alexander’s raised sword.

Macedonian Atso Stoyanov was excited. “This is a fantasy, it is a fantastic thing,” he said. “It’s wonderful for the Macedonian people, not to mention the Balkans, Europe and the entire world.”

Stoyanov was impressed by more than the artistry. He approved of the symbolism. Greece claims Alexander the Great as its ancient hero. But what is today Macedonia, was once, along with parts of Greece and Bulgaria, one geographical territory. And Macedonians like Stoyanov say the statute of Alexander the Great represents their cultural heritage and future.

“With this statue we are showing the world that Macedonian has existed, it still exists, and it will continue to exist. The Macedonian people can never be destroyed. We have roots.” Stoyanov said.


If many Macedonians sound insecure about their identity, they have reason to be. Greece accuses Macedonia of trying to appropriate its history. In fact, Greece insists that Macedonia change its name. But Macedonian cultural anthropologist Aleksandar Ristevski said his compatriots have already done more than enough to appease the Greeks.

“We changed our flag, we are calling ourselves internationally the former Yugoslav republic of Macedonia, mentioning a country which doesn’t exist for 20 years using some idiotic acronym. We changed the constitution because of them. We changed millions of things. What did we get? Blockage, degradation and sanctions,” Ristevski said.

Still, Greece is blocking Macedonia’s bid to join the European Union and NATO unless it changes its name. Macedonian Zoran Iliev urges his countrymen to stand firm.

The European Union is temporary, it might last for 20, 30 or 50 years, but we are unchanging, we are Macedonians,” he said. “We can change our name now, but then what happens in five years when the EU collapses? I’m not giving up my honor for any European Union. Not a single one.”

It’s that kind of nationalist fervor that provided the backdrop for the construction of the statute of Alexander the Great. Macedonians consider Alexander their heroic native son.

And anthropologist Vasiliki Neofotistos of the State University of New York at Buffalo said that means a lot to this beleaguered but proud nation. (RtG - Take note of this woman!)

“He was a conqueror and someone who really spread western civilization,” Neofotistos said. “So the idea was that he started his journey from Macedonia and the idea is that this is the birthplace or a cornerstone of western civilization.”

This week’s completion of the statute of Alexander has angered the Greeks further. But more than one Macedonian pointed out that Greece has its own problems to deal with these days.

Spiritually, I have been crying out for a principled defence of our HISTORY, identity and culture.

[Pelister]

Some of the best language to come from a Macedonian in 20 years.

Macedonia Gets a Statue of Alexander the Great

A crowd of several hundred people gathered in Skopje’s central square to watch the lifting of the 30 ton bronze statue. It depicts Alexander the Great on his mighty stallion Bucephalus. The statute is 92 feet tall from the bottom of the pedestal to the tip of alexander’s raised sword.

Macedonian Atso Stoyanov was excited. “This is a fantasy, it is a fantastic thing,” he said. “It’s wonderful for the Macedonian people, not to mention the Balkans, Europe and the entire world.”

Stoyanov was impressed by more than the artistry. He approved of the symbolism. Greece claims Alexander the Great as its ancient hero. But what is today Macedonia, was once, along with parts of Greece and Bulgaria, one geographical territory. And Macedonians like Stoyanov say the statute of Alexander the Great represents their cultural heritage and future.

“With this statue we are showing the world that Macedonian has existed, it still exists, and it will continue to exist. The Macedonian people can never be destroyed. We have roots.” Stoyanov said.


If many Macedonians sound insecure about their identity, they have reason to be. Greece accuses Macedonia of trying to appropriate its history. In fact, Greece insists that Macedonia change its name. But Macedonian cultural anthropologist Aleksandar Ristevski said his compatriots have already done more than enough to appease the Greeks.

“We changed our flag, we are calling ourselves internationally the former Yugoslav republic of Macedonia, mentioning a country which doesn’t exist for 20 years using some idiotic acronym. We changed the constitution because of them. We changed millions of things. What did we get? Blockage, degradation and sanctions,” Ristevski said.

Still, Greece is blocking Macedonia’s bid to join the European Union and NATO unless it changes its name. Macedonian Zoran Iliev urges his countrymen to stand firm.

The European Union is temporary, it might last for 20, 30 or 50 years, but we are unchanging, we are Macedonians,” he said. “We can change our name now, but then what happens in five years when the EU collapses? I’m not giving up my honor for any European Union. Not a single one.”

It’s that kind of nationalist fervor that provided the backdrop for the construction of the statute of Alexander the Great. Macedonians consider Alexander their heroic native son.

And anthropologist Vasiliki Neofotistos of the State University of New York at Buffalo said that means a lot to this beleaguered but proud nation. (RtG - Take note of this woman!)

“He was a conqueror and someone who really spread western civilization,” Neofotistos said. “So the idea was that he started his journey from Macedonia and the idea is that this is the birthplace or a cornerstone of western civilization.”

This week’s completion of the statute of Alexander has angered the Greeks further. But more than one Macedonian pointed out that Greece has its own problems to deal with these days.

Spiritually, I have been crying out for a principled defence of our HISTORY, identity and culture.

[lavce pelagonski]

YouTube - ‪Macedonia statue ignites tensions with Greece‬‏

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YouTube - ‪Giant statue of Alexander the Great in Skopje, Macedonia (FYROM)‬‏

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YouTube - ‪Alexsandar the graet in Skopie R Macedonia.flv‬‏

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YouTube - ‪Ali Ahmeti claiming Aleksandar Makedonski is a Shiptar‬‏

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YouTube - ‪Skopje-Guerriero a cavallo-Macedonia-Alexander‬‏

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YouTube - ‪Statue Of Alexander The Great In Prilep‬‏

[George S.]

great vids lavce

[Soldier of Macedon]

I just read some of the comments on the Maknews forum after who knows how long, and here are some of the justifications people are using for the pathetic 'title' that the Macedonian government have given the Alexander statue:

I think the Macedonian government or anybody who thought about the name of the statue had an excellent idea in naming it “warrior on the horse”. Macedonians surely do not lack sense of humor!!!! They actually took away from greeks the possibility for a real protest. Very smart move that shows the absurdity of the name dispute and the interim agreement with greece!

The title of the monument to Alexander is a great -- repeat GREAT! -- way to take the wind out of Greece's sale (and that of its mentors). You will notice that the Greek hienas in teh media and the pro-Greek ones (primarily Bilgarian and Serbian) are responsible for the slanted articles in the media.

I don't know how else to put this so I will have to give another simplistic example that is equivalent to this most recent example of stupidity by the Macedonian government. Basically, you walk into a room, there are other people there who identify themselves by their own historical identities, be they Italian, Russian, Scottish, etc..........then you identify yourself as the "person with shoes on"............then you try and justify this by telling yourself that "it is OK, everybody knows who I really am".

At times I really wonder if some Macedonians live on another planet. No disrespect to the two people that I quoted above, I just find it astounding that such a simple factor relating to our god-given right to our historical identity is being ignored - and that the pathetic reaction of the Macedonian government to this hindrance against our self-identification is actually being re-branded as a "good" thing.

[lavce pelagonski]

This Arab has no idea what he is talking about

Macedonia's monument to discord

A statue of Alexander the Great in Skopje has irritated Greece and reignited the debate about the naming of Macedonia

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Hajrudin
Hajrudin Somun for Today's Zaman
guardian.co.uk, Monday 27 June 2011 17.30 BST
Article history

Alexander the Great Statue Installed in Skopje
The statue of Alexander the Great stands in Macedonia Square, in the centre of Skopje. Photograph: Georgi Licovski/EPA

There was a cultural event in Skopje that would not for a moment draw the world's attention from much more important events – such as the uprisings in Syria and Libya, for example – if it did not have such an intense political background, connotation and reaction. A giant statue of an ancient warrior on a horse was erected in the main square of the Macedonian capital on 21 June. It was greeted with an ecstatic welcome from thousands of Macedonians present at the square and caused a great deal of anger in neighbouring Greece.

There was another attraction in the event as well; nobody officially said who the huge equestrian statue represented and in other circumstances it might be one of those "unknown soldiers" that many countries have dedicated national monuments to. In this case, however, the image and appearance of a warrior cast in bronze was well known to everybody, and it was easily recognised as the figure of Alexander the Great, whom both Macedonians and Greeks consider their primeval ancestor.

There is no doubt that Alexander was a great historical Hellenic figure, but that does not mean that everything that was Hellenic belongs to modern Greece. What might be said for numerous historical sites in Anatolia and the Middle East that belonged to the promising Hellenic centuries? Greeks long ago gave up the "Hellenism" of those areas and now go to these destinations as tourists, proud they were once part of that common civilisation. The cause of Alexander and Macedonia is, of course, different and it was created in modern times when Ottoman treatment of the Balkan ethnicities was altered by the rise of local nationalism and conflict, even wars among themselves.

Thus, the identification of Alexander the Great as more or less Greek or Macedonian is an invention of the modern nationalistic movements. Alexander was the son of Philip II the Macedonian, but he himself could not be regarded as being just Macedonian or Greek. He belongs to both contemporary Greece and Macedonia, by way of his Hellenic blood or by his Macedonian land and ancestors. He belongs perhaps even more to the whole world, despite being regarded as a bearer and messenger of Hellenic civilisation, or a cruel invader and destroyer of more ancient ones. It is not important that I personally believe the latter and that the west's prevailing negative view of the old eastern peoples and cultures was created by biased and prejudiced ancient Greek historians.

At this very moment it is important that modern Macedonia had the right to raise a monument to Alexander the Great if it were done on a more modest scale, in a less striking place in their capital, at a less challenging time and – what is perhaps even more important – if it were not done in reaction to the persistent two-decade-long Greek refusal to recognise the name of the Republic of Macedonia, which the parliament of that country adopted and two thirds of the UN member-states accepted.

However, due to Greece's rejection of the name and right to veto in the European Union, Macedonia – in all international organisations and official events, even sports-related ones – still bears a long and strange name: "the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia" (FYROM), which was adopted as a precondition for the country's recognition and acceptance to the UN. It is ironic that Yugoslavia has disappeared from the Balkan map, but its name still appears in the name of a country that, similar to other former Yugoslav republics or any other country in the world, deserves the right to name itself by the will of its people. In spite of UN-led negotiations, the two countries have not been able to solve the name dispute. Greece hardly accepts Macedonia having the same name as its northern province.

In Athens, the Republic of Macedonia is usually called Skopje, its capital, while it is officially referred to as FYROM. For the same reason the Greek government doesn't recognise the Macedonian constitution and flag, which bears a symbolic Hellenic sun. For the Macedonian people and language, Greeks use the adjective "Slavomacedonian" because they consider any use of the pure Macedonian term as a theft of their identity and a "falsification" of their history. That is why Greeks consider Alexander the Great theirs and see the unveiling of the statue in Skopje as a direct insult "with the aim of stirring up nationalism and conflict". This has only re-confirmed the Greek foreign ministry's official explanation of the dispute, which says FYROM "is exercising a policy of irredentism and territorial claims fuelled by the falsification of history".

The erection of the 13-metre Warrior on a Horse statue might be a mark of the Macedonian prime minister Nikola Gruevski's victory after the early elections held at the beginning of June. Known for his uncompromising approach towards the name dispute with Greece, he did something similar after his party won elections five years ago, naming the Skopje airport after Alexander the Great, as well. That also irritated Greece.

Gruevski's party – whose name is as complicated as the country's name, the Democratic party for Macedonian National Unity – Internal Macedonian Revolutionary Organisation (VMRO-DPMNE) – has roots in the 1893 Macedonian patriotic revolutionaries' movement, whose sole aim was "liberating the Macedonian people from the Ottoman yoke". It is today a Christian Democrat and anti-communist party, ethnically based and claiming that "the party's goal and objectives express the tradition of the Macedonian people". It won 37% of a total 1.1 million votes.

The main opposition Social Democrats (SDSM) followed Gruevski's party with 33% of the vote. They are led by former president Branko Crvenkovski, who split earlier with Gruevski, solely on the issue of the country's name dispute. Crvenkovski followed the more conciliatory line of the first president of the independent Macedonia and former chairman of the Yugoslav socialist parliament, Kiro Gligorov, who said: "We are Slavs who came to this area in the sixth century, and we are not descendents of the ancient Macedonians."

After Greeks have in principle accepted the term Macedonian, it might be included in the country's name. Both Greek and Macedonian centre-left parties were ready to accept some proposals by the UN mediators, such as "New Macedonia" or "North Macedonia", but the leading centre-right politicians remained adamant in their extremist positions. Greeks are still repeating the old slogan: "No EU and Nato membership for Skopje unless they change their name."

If he did not place a huge monument to Alexander the Great in the centre of Skopje, I would be able to understand Prime Minister Gruevski's persistence regarding the name of his country. The name itself might perhaps be compromised if Greece stops using it as a reason to block Macedonia's bid to join the European Union and Nato, as that was the only reason it did not become a member of the Euro-Atlantic integrations. When all Nato member states except Greece agreed to offer Macedonia membership at the alliance's summit in Bucharest in 1998, and the US applied additional pressure in that regard, thereby recognising Macedonia by its constitutional name, the invitation was called off at the last moment.

This is happening again this year, and who knows for how long. I do not know if there is any prime minister who would not be furious sitting at the United Nations, or other international body, without the constitutional name of his own country in front of him. Due to Greek opposition, a ridiculous solution was found in the UN headquarters, as Greeks not only objected to Macedonians sitting behind the letter M, but also being behind the F (of FYROM), because it would be too close to Greece's G. So, the world organisation, most of whose members recognise the country by its constitutional name, assigned Macedonia's chair after Thailand, by the letter T, because of its provisional name, "The Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia".

It is thus possible that the Macedonian prime minister is using Alexander the Great as a tool to gain support for his party with a nationalistic background, diverting people's attention from the bleak economic situation in a country with a current unemployment rate of at least 30%. One could also easily agree with London's The Economist which said that unveiling the Alexander statue in Skopje might give George Papandreou's government in Athens a chance to divert attention from the catastrophic financial situation in his country, but I would hardly agree with the esteemed magazine's conclusion that "everyone else will assume this is just more Balkan-flavoured craziness". It is a well-known story about the Balkans that it is as a "barrel of gunpowder". Wouldn't it also be "craziness" to use an old-fashioned veto to block access to the UN and Nato for a country that has fulfilled all conditions except its name, which its people and representatives have chosen and most of the world countries have accepted?

Although it is another subject to be reviewed on another occasion, there is also reason to question whether the name dispute between Macedonia and Greece is part of the ongoing different approach and even different strategy of the US and leading EU member states toward Balkan issues, which we in Bosnia and Herzegovina are witnessing these days as well.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/jun/27/macedonia-alexander-great-greece-discord

[Soldier of Macedon]

This Arab has no idea what he is talking about

So why would you post such an article here? There's no need to promote the deluded perceptions of people who have 'no idea', one only needs to search the internet for some racist Greek forum for that. When you post articles, try and ensure that they have some sort of value in addition to being pertinent. I understand that the opposite arguments need to be heard, but if they've already been heard time and again, there is no need to pollute the forum with such garbage any further.