Conflicts in the Middle East & Northern Africa

[Brian]

Retard (Brian/fyrOM),

I was referring to the gold standard, not any one specific currency.

Actually, I just reread the irrelevant crap about 'raping, pillaging and all the rest'. WTF are you on about? When has the US engaged in that, and on the rare occasion it has happened, who has gone without being prosecuted?

fyrOM, you wouldn't have the slightest clue about inalienable rights and I'm starting to tire of your garbage (again).

Good God, you must live in an isolated cave or prison cell to not know common knowledge.

You have the internet, look it up.

By the way, thanks for avoiding the question about 'perusing personal interest'.

[Vangelovski]

Good God, you must live in an isolated cave or prison cell to not know common knowledge.

You have the internet, look it up.

By the way, thanks for avoiding the question about 'perusing personal interest'.

Retard, how about you post some examples of the types of war crimes/atrocities that you are accusing the Americans of.

You still have not answered the question about what is 'bad' with pursuing national interests (or even personal interests). You make the presupposition that pursuing national and/or personal interests is somehow morally 'wrong'. Why don't you try and elaborate as to WHY you think this is the case rather than just rambling on about completely irrelevant BS.

[Big Bad Sven]

BBS, what are you talking about. The Arab League observers, even according to the article you have posted, have confirmed that Assad is killing his own people.

All of the observers come from Saudi Arabia, Qutar etc, not the most reliable sources of information
And if you think about it, at least Syria has allowed these people in. You will never see North Korea, or dare i say it, Israel let observers into their country

There is no denying that people have been killed or hurt during these protests, but when you have protestors firing at police, being suicide terrorists, it is hard to feel sorry for them. Especially when a great majority of Syrians within Syria and even the diaspora support Basher Al Assad....

And personally my reasons for being on Syria's side is that i hate Al-Qaeda and their supporters e.g. Saudi Arabia, Qutar and Al-Jazaeera. There is no place for extreme islam in this world or their never ending quest for power, and thats what all this is, Saudi Arabia/Fanatical islam trying to take over another secular arab country.. Just seeing their latest activities in macedonia makes me hate them even more.

[Big Bad Sven]

Perhaps not the most reliable source for news, but what is these days?

'Saudi-funded jihad targets Syria as last secular Arab state' - YouTube


'Assad, you'll die like Gaddafi': Rebels want off with Syria head - YouTube

A quote from the "rebel" leader from the second video i posted:
"Assad and his family will be killed in Syria. Their next steps will be very bloody,"
he said. "Two months ago we offered him the option to leave us alone and go, but
instead he went for the blood of his people. The end for him will be that he is
killed like Gaddafi."

These are the people who will be leading Syria once the current government has been removed. What a nice chap. I wonder what his opinion is on Syria's Christians and other non whahabi's

Btw these rebels and their supporters are in the minority of the country

[Big Bad Sven]

Team America needs to sort this shit out.
Team America World Police Intro - YouTube

Thats a negative bratko, today Al-Qaeda is an important ally of the USA and the aussie diggers

Have you seen Rambo 3 risto? Its the movie were rambo teams up with the Taliban in Afghanistan. At the end of the credits there is a message saying "this movie is dedicated to the brave taliban in afghanistan"

[Vangelovski]

All of the observers come from Saudi Arabia, Qutar etc, not the most reliable sources of information
And if you think about it, at least Syria has allowed these people in. You will never see North Korea, or dare i say it, Israel let observers into their country

There is no denying that people have been killed or hurt during these protests, but when you have protestors firing at police, being suicide terrorists, it is hard to feel sorry for them. Especially when a great majority of Syrians within Syria and even the diaspora support Basher Al Assad....

And personally my reasons for being on Syria's side is that i hate Al-Qaeda and their supporters e.g. Saudi Arabia, Qutar and Al-Jazaeera. There is no place for extreme islam in this world or their never ending quest for power, and thats what all this is, Saudi Arabia/Fanatical islam trying to take over another secular arab country.. Just seeing their latest activities in macedonia makes me hate them even more.

BBS, to try and claim that Syria is not a serious human rights abuser is simply an exercise in self-delusion. Dozens of international human rights organisations have documented tens of thousands of human rights abuses over numerous decades. You don't have to take the word of the Arab league, which includes more members than the two that you mention. If you are going to deny the credibility of these human rights organisations, such as Amnesty International and Helsinki Watch, then you will also have to bring into question their credibility when reporting on Greek human rights abuses.

It is simply vacuous and hypocritical to claim that they are lying in the case of Syria, and which ever other Arab state you want to support, and on the other hand hold them up as some sort of bearers of justice when they highlight human rights abuses in Greece.

[Brian]

Retard, how about you post some examples of the types of war crimes/atrocities that you are accusing the Americans of.

You still have not answered the question about what is 'bad' with pursuing national interests (or even personal interests). You make the presupposition that pursuing national and/or personal interests is somehow morally 'wrong'. Why don't you try and elaborate as to WHY you think this is the case rather than just rambling on about completely irrelevant BS.

Just some quick examples I found on the internet. Next time don't make me prove common knowledge.

Marine gets three months in jail for massacring two dozen civilians

http://rt.com/usa/news/wuterich-haditha-civilians-iraq-513/

iraq war: us soldier throws his medals and stars!!! and quits
iraq war: us soldier throws his medals and stars!!! and quits - YouTube


Drop Weapons ~ US soldiers recount killing innocent Iraqi civilians 6/12/11
Drop Weapons ~ US soldiers recount killing innocent Iraqi civilians 6/12/11 - YouTube

[Vangelovski]

Retard,

These people were prosecuted or spoke of accidents, not systematic or purposeful murder.

You still have not answered WHY you think its is somehow morally unacceptable to pursue national or personal interests.

[Brian]

Retard,

These people were prosecuted or spoke of accidents, not systematic or purposeful murder.

You still have not answered WHY you think its is somehow morally unacceptable to pursue national or personal interests.

Bravo Vangelovski - put a soft spin on everything.

Prosecuted like getting 3 months jail (for show) for murdering 24 inoculates civilians - that will certainly teach the bastard.

Accidental like deliberately running over civilians or opening the truck door to slam into a civilian and kill him - or did you miss that part? - and then being told off by his commander not for killing the civilian for no reason other than fun, but for by opening the truck door he reduced/removed the armour protect him and his fellow occupants by exposing the inside of the truck - get real psephologist. Nobody went to court and nobody went to jail.

[Voltron]

It is simply vacuous and hypocritical to claim that they are lying in the case of Syria, and which ever other Arab state you want to support, and on the other hand hold them up as some sort of bearers of justice when they highlight human rights abuses in Greece.

You cant be serious. We dont even have enough money to be abusive to people. Comparing human right abuses between Greece and the Arab states is laughable at best.
What some American troops did in some cases was outright unforgivable. You know in war things like this will go down, but there is a special place in Hell for taking out small kids after raping them in front of families. At least in America there are laws that are in place to prosecute these people. Granted the sentences should be better appropriated and its unfortuante that some of these wackjobs get a lesser penalty. Considering that some countries like Sudan and Afghanistan that dont even bother is the main difference.

[Brian]

You still have not answered the question about what is 'bad' with pursuing national interests (or even personal interests). You make the presupposition that pursuing national and/or personal interests is somehow morally 'wrong'. Why don't you try and elaborate as to WHY you think this is the case rather than just rambling on about completely irrelevant BS.

You still have not answered WHY you think its is somehow morally unacceptable to pursue national or personal interests.[/QUOTE]

I did answer you in Post249.

Let me re-word it (read dumb it down) for you so you can understand.

In days gone by one group attacked another and killed them to take their possessions and land. Nobody had any qualms about it. Nobody pretended to hold some high moral ground - it was th DONE THING.

Roll forward and the USA is touting herself as the bastion of human rights, truth, justice and 'rule of law'. This is the public face of today's USA.

In the background she deceitfully rapes, kills and suppresses anyone she can and then economically rapes them keeping the locals in poverty and misery for years in the pursuit of 'national interests' even when the locals live in a natural resource rich country.

If you don't have any problem with the course of action in the preceding paragraph -

1. explain in detail why?

2. why does every country (including the USA) have laws against murder and seizure of assets/property by force ect when it is pretty much the same thing their doing to another country.

3. if you think point 1 is right then at least be honest about it, like people in days gone by, and have no pretences about some holier then though moral high ground.

4. do the local people have any rights?

[Vangelovski]

Retard,

You have not demonstrated any policy or examples of systematic "rape and killing". You've made so many unsubstantiated presumptions and accusations that you're not even able to stick to the simple topic of pursuing national or personal interests. I did not ask you for a polemic on methods used (or in this case made up in your head), I asked you about why you think it is morally unacceptable to pursue interests.

Seeing as you consider the US such a depraved country that violates the rights of its own people, and seeing as Australia is virtually an identical political, judicial and economic polity, you must really hate living here.

Can you name the rights violations that the Australian state has undertaken against you?

[Big Bad Sven]

Christians Under Attack From Anti-Government Protesters in Syria

http://www.christianpost.com/news/christians-under-attack-from-anti-government-protestors-in-syria-50104/

The "peaceful rebels" are showing "democracy" by basically saying if you are against us, we will kill you. Why are they allowed to hurt and kill people who dont agree with them?

Once the muslim brotherhood and Alqueda take over Syria, we will see the elimination of Christians just as we saw Christians being eradicated in Iraq, Egypt and many other african countries were "democracy" has come in

[Big Bad Sven]

A few days ago Russia and China opposed actions against Syria. The USA was not to pleased with this and were very cross about the whole situation.

It is quite funny that it is ok for the USA to veto Palestine into the UN but get upset when they are not allowed to start war against Syria.

[Big Bad Sven]

It appears like the arab league report has been leaked. There some not so surprising findings from the report.







The report acknowledges the existence of "an armed entity" involved in the killings of civilians and police as well as the conduct of terrorist acts, which in turn have contributed to triggering actions by government forces.

The Report refers to "armed opposition groups" as well as to the "Free Syrian Army", both of which, according to the AL Mission, are involved in the deliberate killing of innocent civilians:

"In some zones, this armed entity reacted by attacking Syrian security forces and citizens, causing the Government to respond with further violence. In the end, innocent citizens pay the price for those actions with life and limb.

"In Homs, Idlib and Hama, the Observer Mission witnessed acts of violence being committed against Government forces and civilians that resulted in several deaths and injuries. Examples of those acts include the bombing of a civilian bus, killing eight persons and injuring others, including women and children, and the bombing of a train carrying diesel oil. In another incident in Homs, a police bus was blown up, killing two police officers. A fuel pipeline and some small bridges were also bombed. "

"Such incidents include the bombing of buildings, trains carrying fuel, vehicles carrying diesel oil and explosions targeting the police, members of the media and fuel pipelines. Some of those attacks have been carried out by the Free Syrian Army and some by other armed opposition groups."

The Mission also underscored to role of media distortion in the coverage of events in Syria as well as the campaign to discredit ithe Mission's findings:

"The Mission noted that many parties falsely reported that explosions or violence had occurred in several locations. When the observers went to those locations, they found that those reports were unfounded.

The Mission also noted that, according to its teams in the field, the media exaggerated the nature of the incidents and the number of persons killed in incidents and protests in certain towns."

The Report also underscored attempts to discredit the Mission and dismiss its findings:

Arab and foreign audiences of certain media organizations have questioned the Mission’s credibility because those organizations use the media to distort the facts. It will be difficult to overcome this problem unless there is political and media support for the Mission and its mandate. It is only natural that some negative incidents should occur as it conducts its activities because such incidents occur as a matter of course in similar missions.

Also of significace were attempts by officials of AL governments to pressure several of the observers into providing "exaggerated accounts of events".

Some observers reneged on their duties and broke the oath they had taken. They made contact with officials from their countries and gave them exaggerated accounts of events. Those officials consequently developed a bleak and unfounded picture of the situation.

Also of significance is the fact that the Mission acknowledged that peaceful protests by unarmed civilians against the government were not the object of government crackdowns:

group team leaders [of the Observation mission] witnessed peaceful demonstrations by both Government supporters and the opposition in several places. None of those demonstrations were disrupted, except for some minor clashes with the Mission and between loyalists and opposition. These have not resulted in fatalities since the last presentation before the Arab Ministerial Committee on the Situation in Syria at its meeting of 8 January 2012.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=29025

So looks like the "rebels" bomb school buses, kill civilians, and attack the army. And they have links to "outside sources" - basically Al-Queda.