WikiLeaks Threads

[Daskalot]

Here is something more on the topic:

ID
08REYKJAVIK46
SUBJECT
Demarche on Use of FYROM for NATO Candidature (U)
DATE
2008-03-31 17:05:00
CLASSIFICATION
CONFIDENTIAL
ORIGIN
Embassy Reykjavik
TEXT
C O N F I D E N T I A L REYKJAVIK 000046

SIPDIS

E.O. 12958: DECL: 03/31/2018
TAGS: PREL NATO PGOV MK GR IC
SUBJECT: Demarche on Use of FYROM for NATO Candidature (U)

REF: STATE 32646

Classified by Ambassador van Voorst, reasons 1.4 b. and d.

(C) Ambassador spoke March 31 to Political Director Gretta
Gunnarsdottir, the most senior MFA
official available, who will inform the Minister of the reftel
demarche. Gunnarsdottir regretted Greece's
rejection of Negotiator Nimetz's proposal and appreciated hearing
U.S. views on the way forward at
Bucharest later this week. She will get back to us with a response
ASAP.

van Voorst


ADDED
2011-01-13 05:05:00
STAMP
2011-01-13 09:13:53

[Wikileaks86]

German sues Macedonia over alleged CIA kidnapping

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/04/AR2011020400029.html

[Makedonska_Kafana]

UK government joined forces with US to overcome name row between Greece and Macedonia: Wikileaks

London, 5 February 2011 (MIA) - The British government has been engaging and will continue to engage with senior Greek leadership to encourage Athens to be more flexible in its position on the Macedonia name issue, Wikileaks reveals as it releases details from a confidential cable sent by the US embassy in London to Washington in April 2008, which have been published on the website of "Daily Telegraph".

Citing a discussion with ex-Foreign Office official Adam Bye responsible for Balkan countries, the cable says that the British Ambassador to Greece had met with Foreign Minister Dora Bakoyannis on April 14 where he noticed "a little improvement of Greece's position" in terms of the usual explanation that "Skopje refuses to be flexible and that Greece has worked as hard as it could within the UN mediating process," MIA's correspondent reports from London.

At the meeting, Bakoyannis also added that progress was unlikely before the June 1 early elections in Macedonia.

According to British diplomat Bye, who is quoted in the US cable, the government in London was engaged with the US administration to find a way out of the "Greece-Macedonia impasse" and its impact on the NATO membership, the Balkan stability and in the longer term, EU unity.

Talking to the US diplomat who sent the cable, the British official said London would continue supporting US efforts to remove the Greek blockade on Macedonia's accession to NATO and that UK would lobby other EU members to exert influence on Athens.

"UK shares the US desire that this issue be resolved within the next few weeks, but it is more likely to require a 'sustained push' at least until the Macedonian elections on June 1," Adam Bye has said.

Furthermore, he confirmed that ruling and opposition parties had been urged not to politicize the name issue or appeal to nationalistic instincts to gain support during the election campaign.

A separate document, titled "NATO, Macedonia, Invitation: UK Efforts Fail to Move Athens", sent by the US embassy in London on 4 Feb. 2008, unveils a statement by the Foreign Office political director Mark Lyall Grant that high-level UK intervention with Greece, including an appeal from FM David Miliband to his Greek counterpart Dora Bakoyannis at an EU meeting, had failed to shift Athens off its hard-line position.

Lyall Grant discussed the matter also with then US assistant state secretary Daniel Fried.

The UK's view is that now that Macedonia has accepted a compromise name proposed by UN envoy (Matthew) Nimetz, maximum pressure must be brought to bear on the Greeks, reads the document.

Lyall Grant said it was unclear whether Greece was using the name issue to block any Macedonian accession to either EU or NATO, or whether a modifier currently unacceptable to Skopje - such as "Upper Macedonia" or "Northern Macedonia" - would mollify the hard-liners in Athens. According to Grant, it would likely require head-of-government level intervention at the Bucharest NATO summit to move the issue. He also noted that Paris could be problematic, given ongoing French-Greek military contract negotiations.

In the document released by Wikileaks, it is stated that UK will resume efforts to settle the issue in coordination with the US and other like-minded allies. ba/fd/17:08

###

Da mu go ebem plemeto

[indigen]

UK government joined forces with US to overcome name row between Greece and Macedonia: Wikileaks

London, 5 February 2011 (MIA) - The British government has been engaging and will continue to engage with senior Greek leadership to encourage Athens to be more flexible in its position on the Macedonia name issue, Wikileaks reveals as it releases details from a confidential cable sent by the US embassy in London to Washington in April 2008, which have been published on the website of "Daily Telegraph".

Citing a discussion with ex-Foreign Office official Adam Bye responsible for Balkan countries, the cable says that the British Ambassador to Greece had met with Foreign Minister Dora Bakoyannis on April 14 where he noticed "a little improvement of Greece's position" in terms of the usual explanation that "Skopje refuses to be flexible and that Greece has worked as hard as it could within the UN mediating process," MIA's correspondent reports from London.

At the meeting, Bakoyannis also added that progress was unlikely before the June 1 early elections in Macedonia.

According to British diplomat Bye, who is quoted in the US cable, the government in London was engaged with the US administration to find a way out of the "Greece-Macedonia impasse" and its impact on the NATO membership, the Balkan stability and in the longer term, EU unity.

Talking to the US diplomat who sent the cable, the British official said London would continue supporting US efforts to remove the Greek blockade on Macedonia's accession to NATO and that UK would lobby other EU members to exert influence on Athens.

"UK shares the US desire that this issue be resolved within the next few weeks, but it is more likely to require a 'sustained push' at least until the Macedonian elections on June 1," Adam Bye has said.

Furthermore, he confirmed that ruling and opposition parties had been urged not to politicize the name issue or appeal to nationalistic instincts to gain support during the election campaign.

A separate document, titled "NATO, Macedonia, Invitation: UK Efforts Fail to Move Athens", sent by the US embassy in London on 4 Feb. 2008, unveils a statement by the Foreign Office political director Mark Lyall Grant that high-level UK intervention with Greece, including an appeal from FM David Miliband to his Greek counterpart Dora Bakoyannis at an EU meeting, had failed to shift Athens off its hard-line position.

Lyall Grant discussed the matter also with then US assistant state secretary Daniel Fried.

The UK's view is that now that Macedonia has accepted a compromise name proposed by UN envoy (Matthew) Nimetz, maximum pressure must be brought to bear on the Greeks, reads the document.

Lyall Grant said it was unclear whether Greece was using the name issue to block any Macedonian accession to either EU or NATO, or whether a modifier currently unacceptable to Skopje - such as "Upper Macedonia" or "Northern Macedonia" - would mollify the hard-liners in Athens. According to Grant, it would likely require head-of-government level intervention at the Bucharest NATO summit to move the issue. He also noted that Paris could be problematic, given ongoing French-Greek military contract negotiations.

In the document released by Wikileaks, it is stated that UK will resume efforts to settle the issue in coordination with the US and other like-minded allies. ba/fd/17:08

###

Da mu go ebem plemeto

Na kogo, na Gruevski i site drugi vazalski PREDAVNICI ili na nekoj drug (i)?


Мартиновски: Македонија во 2008. прифати предлогот на Нимиц да се стави на референдум


„Она што во повеќе наврати е кажано и од самиот премиер, како и од други државни претставници, е дека пред НАТО Самитот во Букурешт во 2008 година, македонската страна прифати предлогот кој што тогаш беше даден од медијаторот Нимиц,...“, изјави портпаролот на Владата Мартин Мартиновски.

- Тој принцип како што беше до сега, останува и во иднина, односно референдумот на кој што граѓаните ќе излезат и ќе се изјаснат останува како основен механизам државата да прифати одреден предлог за надминување на спорот за името, истакнува Мартиновски во врска со документот обелоденет од Викиликс, во кој се наведува став на Велика Британија пред Самитот на НАТО во 2008 година дека Македонија прифаќа компромисно име што би било предложено од посредникот на ОН Метју Нимиц, и оти максимален притисок мора да се изврши врз грчката страна.
05.02.2011, 17:04

http://www.kanal5.com.mk/default.aspx?mId=37&egId=13&eventId=70988

[makedonche]

Indigen

Da te prasham dali znaish ot kogai godina potchnuva ROM da troshi pari daideno ot Evropski Union?
Mi se chini deka Grujo mo kaza oti imeto ke go smeni vo 2008, it ot tolgai pochnaiya pari da troshai vo RoM?

[lavce pelagonski]

HMG WILL CONTINUE TO ENGAGE WITH ATHENS AND SKOPJE ON MACEDONIA NAME/NATO ACCESSION ISSUE
Passed to the Telegraph by WikiLeaks 9:06PM GMT 04 Feb 2011

Ref ID: 08LONDON1112

Date: 4/18/2008 14:00

Origin: Embassy London

Classification: CONFIDENTIAL

Destination: 08STATE40462

Header: VZCZCXYZ0000OO RUEHWEBDE RUEHLO #1112 1091400ZNY CCCCC ZZHO 181400Z APR 08FM AMEMBASSY LONDONTO RUEHC/SECSTATE WASHDC IMMEDIATE 8305INFO RUEHZG/NATO EU COLLECTIVE PRIORITYRUEHSQ/AMEMBASSY SKOPJE PRIORITY 0145

Tags: PREL,NATO,EU,MK,GR,UK

C O N F I D E N T I A L LONDON 001112 SIPDIS SIPDIS DEPT. FOR EUR/RPM, EUR/SCE, EUR/WE E.O. 12958: DECL: 04/11/2018 TAGS: PREL, NATO, EU, MK, GR, UK SUBJECT: HMG WILL CONTINUE TO ENGAGE WITH ATHENS AND SKOPJE ON MACEDONIA NAME/NATO ACCESSION ISSUE REF: STATE 40462 Classified By: Political Minister-Counselor Maura Connelly for reasons 1.4 (b) and (d).

1. (C) HMG has been engaging, and will continue to engage with, senior Greek leadership to encourage Athens to be more flexible in its position on the Macedonia name issue. FCO Balkans Group Deputy Director Adam Bye said that the British Ambaasador (HMA) to Greece had met with Foreign Minister Bakoyiani on April 14, stressing many of the points contained reftel. Bakoyiani's reaction showed little movement from that of the Greek position we have heard over the past few months - that it was Skopje refusing to be flexible, and that Greece has worked as hard as it could within the UN mediating process. According to Bye, Bakoyiani also added that progress was unlikely before the June 1 Macedonian elections. Bye said the FCO would summarize the points contained reftel for HMA in Athens, advise him of the other countries the USG has requested to assist, and ask him to approach the FM once again. HMA may also contact Ambassador Speckhard to discuss joint approaches to the Greek government.

2. (C) Bye underlined that HMG is as concerned as the USG about the Greece-Macedonia impasse, and its impact on the NATO Alliance and Balkan stability and in the longer term, EU unity. He shared a readout of an April 18 video conference which he attended and included representatives from UK Missions to Greece, Macedonia, NATO and the EU: the UK appreciates and will continue to support U.S. efforts to remove the Greek block on Macedonian accession to NATO; the June 1 Macedonian elections represent an additional challenge, and the UK will urge political parties on all sides not to politicize the name issue or appeal to nationalistic instincts to gain support; while the UK shares the U.S. desire that this issue be resolved within the next few weeks, it is more likely to require a "sustained push," at least until the Macedonian elections; and, the UK will lobby other EU members to exert influence on Athens. Visit London's Classified Website: XXXXXXXXXXXX LEBARON

[Daskalot]

The more time passes by the clearer the picture gets, this is all a charade, our name has been sold in closed meetings with out our consent. Now they have to sell this to the Macedonian public as a victory.

Macedonians SAY NO.

We are Macedonians now and forever!

[DirtyCodingHabitz]

YouTube - Julian Assange Press Conference After Extradition Ruling

The founder of the whistleblowing website Wikileaks, Julian Assange, will be sent to Sweden to face sex crime charges. A London Court has just ruled that Stockholm's extradition bid has been successful. Lawyers for Assange have a week to appeal Thursday's decision. Speaking to reporters outside the court in London, Assange said he would appeal the ruling and criticized the European arrest warrant system. He described the ruling as a "rubber stamping process that comes as no surprise but is none the less wrong".

[Wikileaks86]

A Greek newspaper was given access to the cables (among a few dozen other news sources throughout the world):

http://wlcentral.org/node/1504

There is this summary of some of the findings:

http://wlcentral.org/node/1506

See the one at the bottom regarding Macedonia and then the official cable:

http://wlcentral.org/node/1506

http://www.skai.gr/files/1/gpapav9/skaigr2.pdf

MACEDONIA NAME ISSUE
--------------------
3. (C) Karamanlis took a hard line on the Macedonia name
issue. He said Greece wanted the entire Balkan region to be
incorporated into Euro-Atlantic institutions and to
assimilate Western values, which would improve stability and
further economic development. But, Karamanlis said, "let me
be very frank, I think I have done my part." According to
the PM, Greek public opinion earlier had been very opposed to
any use of the name "Macedonia," but following UN negotiator
Nimetz´s forward-leaning proposal two years ago, Greece under
Karamanlis´s leadership took the "bold step" of accepting
Nimetz´s proposal as a basis of negotiation, which came at
tremendous political cost to Karamanlis and the New Democracy
party (support in Karamanlis´s home region of Greek Macedonia
slipped from more than 50 percent to 40 percent). Greece was
open to a composite name -- "New, North, Upper, whatever
Macedonia." But a compromise was essential, Karamanlis
argued, and so far FYROM remained intransigent, which
Karamanlis attributed, in part, to the U.S. decision to
recognize Macedonia by its constitutional name.
4. (C) Karamanlis said he had told FYROM leaders that any
Greek government going further would be thrown out of office.
Thus, it was essential to find a mutually acceptable
solution now. In response to the Ambassador´s query as to
whether it would be possible to work to show real progress
and commitment in the negotiations before the NATO Summit,
while leaving the ratification period for finalizing an
agreement, Karamanlis insisted that this would not be
acceptable and an agreement needed to be reached before the
Summit. Without a solution, he said, "we cannot approve
FYROM´s entry into Euro-Atlantic institutions." As for
Nimetz´s proposal for a two-name solution (Republic of
Macedonia for internal use and a composite name for the UN,
NATO, and other international usage), Karamanlis said Greece
could live with that, but the composite name had to be used
in all international fora, and Greece expected the U.S. to
use the composite name as well.

Oh and I love this:

13. (C) The meeting took place in Karamanlis´s office at the
Maximou Palace. Journalists with cameras were at the gate
but had no opportunity to approach the Ambassador. During
the meeting, Karamanlis was very comfortable and gregarious,
often expressing his respect and affection for the United
States. There were virtually no pauses in the conversation,
and Karamanlis at times became animated, particularly when
discussing the Macedonia name issue and Kosovo. He sat on
the edge of his seat and took out his Greek worry beads. He
spent over an hour with the Ambassador, more than double the
allotted time.
SPECKHARD
;2008-01-05 12:58

A Macedonian news agency should apply to have a copy of the cables so they can begin publishing them and find out what they have to say about Macedonia.

[Wikileaks86]

Oh this is GOLD:

http://wlcentral.org/node/1516

Note the cable that talks about Macedonia though (at the bottom

http://www.skai.gr/files/1/pdf/skaigr7%5B1%5D.pdf

1. (C) In a cordial introductory meeting wit Ambassador,
former PASOK Foreign Minister (196-1999) Theodoros Pangalos
-- known during his tenure at the MFA for a sharp tongue and
undiplomatic approach -- said he thought the name issue
between Greece and Macedonia was "ridiculous" and a "disaster
from the beginning." Now that the Republic of Macedonia had
been created, he argued, the Macedonians should be allowed to
use whatever name they wished. Indeed, Greece should be
honored by Macedonia wanting to use the name. As for Greek
fears of irredentism, these too were "ridiculous" and stemmed
from the Greek right´s memories of the civil war and fears of
communist forces coming into Greece from the Slavic
1/3
communist forces coming into Greece from the Slavic
countries. As for the way out of the current impasse,
Pangalos said the U.S. should not worry about Greece blaming
the U.S. for not solving the problem (though he offered no
reason to back up the assertion). He said he thought the
Nimetz proposal was a reasonable approach and noted that he
had told FM Bakoyannis that PASOK would not "exploit the
issue." PASOK would criticize the government for its
handling but would not manipulate the substance of the issue
to Greece´s detriment.


Our conversations with
Greeks indicate that a very small percentage would agree with
Pangalos on the Macedonia name issue. The overwhelmingly
more common position is one of opposition to compromise. And
Pangalos is unlikely to voice in public the opinions he
voiced with us.

What do you guys think?

[Risto the Great]

And
Pangalos is unlikely to voice in public the opinions he
voiced with us.

What do you guys think?

Yes, it would have been political suicide for him.
It has been the Greek mantra for the last 20 years in order to divert the attention of the masses from the reality that has unfolded in Greece over the last 2 years.

[Wikileaks86]

Yes, it would have been political suicide for him.
It has been the Greek mantra for the last 20 years in order to divert the attention of the masses from the reality that has unfolded in Greece over the last 2 years.

I agree. I guess I was quite amazed that a Greek individual would even think this to himself privately and makes me wonder how many of them don't actually care about the issue and would be happy with Macedonia being called Macedonia but then any Greek that takes the first step in saying this (in parliament) would be an easy target to get kicked out.

[Wikileaks86]

A few other releases:

http://wlcentral.org/node/1548

Original cables that mention Macedonia can be read here:

http://folders.skai.gr/main/wikileak?id=20&locale=el

http://folders.skai.gr/main/wikileak?id=18&locale=el

[Onur]

Wikileaks recently started to release leaked docs about Guantanamo prison.

According to the leaked file, one of the top assassin of Al-Qaida and the man responsible from bombing of two church and a luxury hotel in Pakistan, came out to be a British secret service MI6 agent and an informer, according to the secret report of CIA;

Guantánamo Bay files: Al-Qaida assassin 'worked for MI6'

An al-Qaida operative accused of bombing two Christian churches and a luxury hotel in Pakistan in 2002 was at the same time working for British intelligence, according to secret files on detainees who were shipped to the US military's Guantánamo Bay prison camp.

Adil Hadi al Jazairi Bin Hamlili, an Algerian citizen described as a "facilitator, courier, kidnapper, and assassin for al-Qaida", was detained in Pakistan in 2003 and later sent to Guantánamo Bay.

But according to Hamlili's Guantánamo "assessment" file, one of 759 individual dossiers obtained by the Guardian, US interrogators were convinced that he was simultaneously acting as an informer for British and Canadian intelligence.

After his capture in June 2003 Hamlili was transferred to Bagram detention centre, north of Kabul, where he underwent numerous "custodial interviews" with CIA personnel.

They found him "to have withheld important information from the Canadian Secret Intelligence Service and British Secret Intelligence Service … and to be a threat to US and allied personnel in Afghanistan and Pakistan".

The Guardian and the New York Times published a series of reports based on the leaked cache of documents which exposed the flimsy grounds on which many detainees were transferred to the camp and portrayed a system focused overwhelmingly on extracting intelligence from prisoners.

A further series of reports based on the files reveal:

• A single star informer at the base won his freedom by incriminating at least 123 other prisoners there. The US military source described Mohammed Basardah as an "invaluable" source who had shown "exceptional co-operation", but lawyers for other inmates claim his evidence is unreliable.

• US interrogators frequently clashed over the handling of detainees, with members of the Joint Task Force Guantánamo (JTF GTMO) in several cases overruling recommendations by the Criminal Investigative Task Force (CITF) that prisoners should be released. CITF investigators also disapproved of methods adopted by the JTF's military interrogators.

• New light on how Osama bin Laden escaped from Tora Bora as American and British special forces closed in on his mountain refuge in December 2001, including intelligence claiming that a local Pakistani warlord provided fighters to guide him to safety in the north-east of Afghanistan.

The Obama administration on Monday condemned the release of documents which it claimed had been "obtained illegally by WikiLeaks".

The Pentagon's press secretary, Geoff Morrell, said in many cases the documents, so-called Detainee Assessment Briefs, had been superseded by the decisions of a taskforce established by President Barack Obama in 2009.

"Any given DAB illegally obtained and released by WikiLeaks may or may not represent the current view of a given detainee," he said.

According to the files, Hamlili told his American interrogators at Bagram that he had been running a carpet business from Peshawar, exporting as far afield as Dubai following the 9/11 attacks.

But his CIA captors knew the Algerian had been an informant for MI6 and Canada's Secret Intelligence Service for over three years – and suspected he had been double-crossing handlers. According to US intelligence the two spy agencies recruited Hamlili as a "humint" – human intelligence – source in December 2000 "because of his connections to members of various al-Qaida linked terrorist groups that operated in Afghanistan and Pakistan".

The files do not specify what information Hamlili withheld. But they do contain intelligence reports, albeit flawed ones, that link the Algerian to three major terrorist attacks in Pakistan during this time.

Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the self-confessed architect of the 9/11 attacks, told interrogators an "Abu Adil" – an alias allegedly used by Hamlili – had orchestrated the March 2002 grenade attack on a Protestant church in Islamabad's diplomatic enclave that killed five people, including a US diplomat and his daughter.

He said Abu Adil was also responsible for an attack that killed three girls in a rural Punjabi church the following December, and that he had given him 300,000 rupees (about $3,540) to fund the attacks.

The church attacks have previously been blamed on Lashkar I Jhangvi, a Pakistani sectarian outfit that has developed ties with al-Qaida in recent years.

Separately, US intelligence reports said that Hamlili was "possibly involved" in a bombing outside Karachi's Sheraton hotel in May 2002 that killed 11 French submarine engineers and two Pakistanis.

But the intelligence against the 35-year-old Algerian, who was sent home last January, appears deeply flawed, like many of the accusations in the Guantánamo files.

Some of the information may have been obtained through torture. US officials waterboarded Khalid Sheikh Mohammed 183 times at a CIA "black site" in Thailand during his first month of captivity.

And little evidence is presented to link Hamlili to the Karachi hotel bombing, other than that he ran a carpet business – the same cover that was used by the alleged assassins to escape.

What is clear, however, is that Hamlili was a decades-long veteran of the violent jihadi underground that extends from northern Pakistan and Afghanistan into north Africa. From the Algerian town of Oran, he left with his father in 1986, at the age of 11, to join the fight against Soviet forces in Afghanistan. Later he fell into extremist "takfir" groups, recruited militants to fight in the Algerian civil war, and gained a reputation for violence.

Under the Taliban the Algerian worked as a translator for the foreign ministry and later for the Taliban intelligence services, shuttling between Pakistan and Afghanistan in the runup to 9/11.

Last January Hamlili and another inmate, Hasan Zemiri, were transferred to Algerian government custody. It was not clear whether they would be freed or made to stand trial.

Clive Stafford Smith, whose legal charity, Reprieve, represents many current and former inmates, said the files revealed the "sheer bureaucratic incompetence" of the US military's intelligence gathering.

"When you gather intelligence in such an unintelligent way; if for example you sweep people up who you know are innocent, and it is in these documents; and then mistreat them horribly, you are not going to get reliable intelligence. You are going to make yourself a lot of enemies."

The Guantánamo files are one of a series of secret US government databases allegedly leaked by US intelligence analyst Bradley Manning to WikiLeaks. The New York Times, which shared the files with the Guardian and US National Public Radio, said it did not obtain them from WikiLeaks.

A number of other news organisations yesterday published reports based on files they had received from WikiLeaks

25 April 2011

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...worked-for-mi6

[George S.]

Regarding mando habib it was true what he did.He was training 9/11 terrorists.