greek OMONIA organization claims rights from albania...

[Risto the Great]

Thanks for the revised definition.
Let me know when you settle on a final one.

has allegiance towards a foreign country

Most Macedonians in Greece have no allegiance to the Republic of Macedonia.
You have simplified something that is far too complex to be trivialised in this fashion.

[Demos]

Thanks for the revised definition.
Let me know when you settle on a final one.


Most Macedonians in Greece have no allegiance to the Republic of Macedonia.
You have simplified something that is far too complex to be trivialised in this fashion.

I agree with your assessment, they probably do not. However, I have met Greeks in the United States who were born and raised in that country and they do not feel an allegiance towards the United States. They will always say they are Greek first.

Are we to consider those people as Americans? Perhaps American citizens (ie passport holders), but definitely not Americans in the national sense.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Demos, in your opinion, how much % of the population do the ethnic Hellenes make up in Greece?

[Demos]

Demos, in your opinion, how much % of the population do the ethnic Hellenes make up in Greece?

From my travels around Greece I would say the following. The foreign or immigrant population in Greece right now is around 7%. The Muslim (Turks/Pomaks) are around 2%. 2% for the Vlachs, Gypsies, Arvanites, Macedonians, and other smaller minorities numbering between 1,000-40,000 or so.

I would estimate the ethnic Greek population to be around 89%-90% give or take with the other 10% non-ethnic Greek.

Of course some would say that Vlachs, Arvanites and other smaller minorities are fully Hellenized despite being able to speak in another language, but I think 89-90% is probably a fair assessment maybe +- 2%.

Population of Greece is 11.2 million people (2008 estimate). Greece does not conduct ethnographic type census, same as France and other European nations.

[Soldier of Macedon]

From my travels around Greece I would say the following. The foreign or immigrant population in Greece right now is around 7%. The Muslim (Turks/Pomaks) are around 2%. 2% for the Vlachs, Gypsies, Arvanites, Macedonians, and other smaller minorities numbering between 1,000-40,000 or so.

I would estimate the ethnic Greek population to be around 89%-90% give or take with the other 10% non-ethnic Greek.

Of course some would say that Vlachs, Arvanites and other smaller minorities are fully Hellenized despite being able to speak in another language, but I think 89-90% is probably a fair assessment maybe +- 2%.

Population of Greece is 11.2 million people (2008 estimate). Greece does not conduct ethnographic type census, same as France and other European nations.

Appreciate the honesty, of course I do not agree with you, as you consider 'ethnic Greeks' those who up until 60-80 years ago only spoke Macedonian and for centuries prior. I have actually opened up a thread with regard to national census' in Greece, perhaps you can share some information there also.

[Demos]

Appreciate the honesty, of course I do not agree with you, as you consider 'ethnic Greeks' those who up until 60-80 years ago only spoke Macedonian and for centuries prior. I have actually opened up a thread with regard to national census' in Greece, perhaps you can share some information there also.

SOM,

People who spoke only Macedonian 60-80 years ago are probably already dead or with one foot in the grave, just like the people in Asia Minor who only spoke Greek are so what people did 100, 80, or 60 years ago is not relevant to today.

In my opinion I estimate that the Macedonians living in Greece are probably around 17,000-30,000. From what I have seen 55% of those are what you guys probably refer to as "Grkomani" (ie Hellenized Macedonians), 40% probably recognize that they are different in ethnic terms, but are not interested in national/minority type issues (only care about life, feeding their families etc), and you probably have 5% which are more nationalistic in the sense that they would like to separate and be part of ROM.

These of course are my own estimates and do not reflect any kind of official data.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Yes, quite a few probably's there. Probably the descendants of those dead people mentioned have the same blood, probably they are still blood related to the people in the region who formed the majority, probably some "feeling" created 60-80 years ago does not substitute the truth, whether it is spoken about or not.

[Venom]

Thirty thousand you reckon demos? And where do you get that figure from?

So Demos, you agree that the people living there spoke only Macedonian?

There used to be a bloke next door who thought the same thing. Thing was he also thought he could trace his family tree back to 600BC (seriously). Then we found out he was pontiac. Ah well.

[Sarafot]

In a video that i posted the Tv guy saies that Eu commision asumed 75.000 Macedonians to speak Macedonian language in Greece.
Take a look in that video Demos

[Demos]

Thirty thousand you reckon demos? And where do you get that figure from?

So Demos, you agree that the people living there spoke only Macedonian?

There used to be a bloke next door who thought the same thing. Thing was he also thought he could trace his family tree back to 600BC (seriously). Then we found out he was pontiac. Ah well.

That's just a personal estimate based on multiplying the votes the Rainbow party received by a factor of 4 or 5. As for only speaking Macedonian, that I don' think one can say. I'm sure most people in the region probably spoke Macedonian, Greek, and probably Turkish (official state language). Regardless of the number I think most would agree that the majority of Macedonians are fully integrated into Greek society (what you term Grkoman) or most simply don't bother enough to care. Although, I'm sure there is a minority within the community who are active about their ethnic background in the political sense (voters of Rainbow for example).

That's good to hear that he's from Pontus. There were many Greek colonies established along the Pontus coastline on the Black Sea between 800-400BC.

[Demos]

In a video that i posted the Tv guy saies that Eu commision asumed 75.000 Macedonians to speak Macedonian language in Greece.
Take a look in that video Demos

Okay, let us assume that 75,000 are able to speak Macedonian. 75,000 in a country of 11.3 million is 0.66%.

[Sarafot]

I think i know your problem,if you denide Macedonians the whole territory along Aegean,black sea,mediteranean sea can easy claimed as Greek lands,wright?

But Macedonians change that picture,so the easyest way is to claim that they are Ellini,wright?

Yes i belive so,tray to convince me? I'm the real on BUCKEFALUS!

[Demos]

I think i know your problem,if you denide Macedonians the whole territory along Aegean,black sea,mediteranean sea can easy claimed as Greek lands,wright?

But Macedonians change that picture,so the easyest way is to claim that they are Ellini,wright?

Yes i belive so,tray to convince me? I'm the real on BUCKEFALUS!

Sarafot,

I'm not trying to convince you of anything. Some matters are not subjective to debate (for example the population of countries), while others are subjective. In Macedonia you have one opinion and in Greece we have another opinion. The truth always lies somewhere in the middle.

That's all.

[Sarafot]

Okay, let us assume that 75,000 are able to speak Macedonian. 75,000 in a country of 11.3 million is 0.66%.

It is so hard for Ellini to admit 0.66% of Macedonians?Why? 11,3 millions are afraied of 0,66%

Sramota=Shame ELLINI, shame!

[Demos]

It is so hard for Ellini to admit 0.66% of Macedonians?Why? 11,3 millions are afraied of 0,66%

Sramota=Shame ELLINI, shame!

I don't think it's hard. I just think the rest of the population which are over 2.5 million and Greek get offended as they don't see you as Macedonian but instead see you as a million other things. In the same fashion as Macedonians don't see Greeks as "Greek Macedonian" or even Greeks in some extreme cases.