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  • Big Bad Sven
    Senior Member
    • Jan 2009
    • 1528

    Komita, is it a christian thing to do what the serbs did as the passage below describes? What do you think god was thinking at the time???




    In the portion of Macedonia that Serbia occupied in the Balkan War of 1913 and conveniently renamed “Southern Serbia”, Serbian authorities undertook a program to “Serbianize” the Macedonian population through the destruction of Macedonia’s centuries-old cultural and religious heritage. In Black Hand over Europe, Henri Pozzi describes the cultural state of Macedonia upon its becoming a Serbian province in 1918:

    Macedonia had more then 700 churches: she also possessed 86 colleges or secondary schools, with 2,800 students and 460 professors: 556 primary schools with 33,000 scholars and 850 teachers. The convents and Churches contained inestimable treasures – the fruits of a thousand years of Macedonian culture and thought.
    The churches, monasteries and schools have been confiscated, all the priests, all the teachers have been expelled, imprisoned or deported into Old Serbia. The churches and monasteries, which even the Turks themselves had respected, have been pillaged from top to bottom.

    As a part of the program to extend Serbian control to Macedonia, the Serbian language was forcibly imposed on to the population, and Macedonian surnames were changed to Serbian forms. Brutal police measures were applied systematically. Common methods of interrogation included crushing toes with a hammer, drilling teeth, and mutilating men’s and women’s genitals. Prisons were filled with men, women and children crowded in cells too small to permit movement. Macedonian women were typically whipped, beaten and raped, but also subjected to gruesome tortures, such as pouring fuel on their armpits and loins and setting them on fire. Such atrocities instituted as a policy by Zika Lazic, the chief of the state police (and later the Yugoslav minister of the interior), of whom the following description was offered by a French author:

    I was at Belgrade, in July 1932, dinning at the Excelsior Restaurant behind the royal palace…. Lasitch (Lazic) came to sit down next to us….He had just returned from Macedonia where he had been organizing the State Police. I noticed one thing particularly, all the while he was animatedly telling us risqué stories about women, he did not stop picking little flies from the table cloth which he would hold for a moment struggling between his fingers. Then, without stopping his flow of talk, gently one by one, he tore off their wings, and with the end of his cigarette, tapping lightly, unhurriedly, he forced them to crawl by burning their abdomens.. “With the Macedonian women also” he said to us, “in order to render them amorous, when they are insensible, we place hot irons on a good spot


    Serbia’s Secret War – Propaganda and the Deceit of History.
    By Philip J. Cohen
    Page 11

    Comment

    • Vangelovski
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 8532

      I felt compelled to post this link - for anyone who's interested. I noticed that there was some questioning of the Bible's truth, so this may help some with their doubts.

      http://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-God-Word.html
      If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

      The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

      Comment

      • Bill77
        Senior Member
        • Oct 2009
        • 4545

        A quote from a post by Komita,

        ""Vrata naše Crkve su otvorena za našu braću iz Makedonije"

        Da ti se mocham na vashata crkva.


        Thanks for igniting my emotions again sven. JK not your fault.
        http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=120873#post120873

        Comment

        • Soldier of Macedon
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 13670

          I was at Belgrade, in July 1932, dinning at the Excelsior Restaurant behind the royal palace…. Lasitch (Lazic) came to sit down next to us….He had just returned from Macedonia where he had been organizing the State Police. I noticed one thing particularly, all the while he was animatedly telling us risqué stories about women, he did not stop picking little flies from the table cloth which he would hold for a moment struggling between his fingers. Then, without stopping his flow of talk, gently one by one, he tore off their wings, and with the end of his cigarette, tapping lightly, unhurriedly, he forced them to crawl by burning their abdomens.. “With the Macedonian women also” he said to us, “in order to render them amorous, when they are insensible, we place hot irons on a good spot....
          I remember reading that for the first time a while ago, my blood boiled. That is why I will never consider the racist Greek, Bulgar or Serb any different from each other. The grandfathers of the same rapist animals from the Yugoslav breakup, may they all burn in hell.
          In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

          Comment

          • Komita
            Member
            • May 2009
            • 243

            Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
            Criticise their actions against the MOC. Your reluctance to do that seems to indicate that you have no problem with the way SOC has treated the MOC. Is that the case? You have no issues with it?

            It is not against our teachings to make free-thinking judgements. Why do you equate criticism to swearing, that is not what I asked of you. All I asked was basically for you to make a comment about their behaviour against us, you know, a comment from the Macedonian perspective. Is that possible?

            The SOC, GOC and BOC all show disrespect to the Orthodox faith by refusing to accept the MOC as legitimate in the Orthodox 'world'. You are smart enough to know and see that they are the cause of bad relations between us. We don't need their acceptance, and we don't need them, but they won't get anything from us, anything at all.

            What is your opinion on Vranishkovski? Do you believe the MOC should be independent of all other churches?
            No they dont because the problem isnt with the teachings our faith follow and spread it's politicial.
            This question doesnt have anything to do with our or the whole orthodox faith.
            Stop spreading it like that. Vraniskovski is a lost human that sold himself for a position and influence, he has no support in MACEDONIA and is losing support in SPC, and I let God judge him for his actions.
            Of course it would like MPC to be independent and recognized, but lets face it the greeks church has alot of influence in the orthodox world.
            Слава му на Бога за се

            Comment

            • Komita
              Member
              • May 2009
              • 243

              Originally posted by Bill77 View Post
              very bible like.




              And regarding this quote: "When you done half of the things the priests do in orthodox churches"

              i have this as an answer if you live like it says in the bible,

              Matthew 23:3
              "So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach."




              Have you heard the story about the good samaritan? it goes something like this,

              A man is lieing in the gutter, bleeding and half dead. A preist walks past him on the way to church. The preist sees him but thinks to him self, "oh no i cant stop, i have to get to church other wise god will not be pleased". A few other church oficials and members of the congregation walk by and do the same.

              Now a good samaritan walks past. sees this man in trouble, He stops and attends to him. He Thinks to him self, " i will be late for church, i hope my Father will forgive Me".

              So who would God look at more favourably? What i am trying to get at, is attending church gatherings with our Macedonian fellowship is important for many reasons. But there is more to it, than just going to church to be a good Christian.
              Stop taking Bible quotes that suites your own views and the rest you said in your post it's nothing that can be taken serious.
              Слава му на Бога за се

              Comment

              • Komita
                Member
                • May 2009
                • 243

                Originally posted by Big Bad Sven View Post
                Hahahahahahahaha

                You don’t need to go to Church every day, know every passage from the bible or have the passion to kill the evil turk for the great orthodox cause to be a good person. I know plenty of nurses, physiotherapists etc who look after the sick and disabled – people who do much more for the human race then say some fat drunken idiot from the SOC or some short fat hairy black bastard from Solun demanding that ”greeks” should boycott Macedonian casino’s.

                You’re a blind srboman fool that has your head so far up your @ss that you cant see the racist things the orthodox leaders in the Balkans have done to people and still do to people. Thanks to your good friends the GOC and the “greek” priests we no longer have many vlach, Christian Albanians and Macedonians in the country of Grease. I call that ethnic cleansing in my book.

                In this forum and the maknews forum when ever some one brings up the wrong doings of the “greeks”, Bulgarian slavs and ESPICIALLY the serbs you skirt around the issue and call them a “turk lover”.
                Its time you grow some balls and answer some questions “Komita”. Your fist question that you should honestly answer is what SOM asked you about that "priest" in Bitola that the SOC installed to be used as a virus on the poor macedonian people.....
                This post should be saved as post of the year and from the retard of the year.
                Слава му на Бога за се

                Comment

                • Rogi
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 2343

                  Komita,

                  It is the mission of the Orthodox Churches and its' clergy men, to spread the word of God and as such accept all new willing followers.

                  The Greek and Serbian Orthodox Churches go against this, by refusing to accept the Macedonians. It is they who have deviated from the religion and the teachings they are supposed to preach, instead becoming not only entangled in politics but the propagators of hate.

                  There is no bit of what they do that in any way relates to the liturgy they preach.

                  Comment

                  • Komita
                    Member
                    • May 2009
                    • 243

                    Originally posted by Rogi View Post
                    Komita,

                    It is the mission of the Orthodox Churches and its' clergy men, to spread the word of God and as such accept all new willing followers.

                    The Greek and Serbian Orthodox Churches go against this, by refusing to accept the Macedonians. It is they who have deviated from the religion and the teachings they are supposed to preach, instead becoming not only entangled in politics but the propagators of hate.

                    There is no bit of what they do that in any way relates to the liturgy they preach.
                    No they dont, they are not refusing us the word of God or the teachings.
                    Macedonians that are christened in MPC are accepted in Serbia by serb churches.
                    It's laughable that you given yourself the right to judge the churches and their teachings and they are spreading hate which is laughable.
                    The only hate and and being entagnle in politics I see here is your views on the church matter and your openly hate for other orthodox churches and our faith in general.
                    Most of you have repeatedly posted that you almost regret that your belonging to our church and faith and wished our church would become a part of the Vatican.
                    Your should maybe seek recognition and acceptance from them.
                    Слава му на Бога за се

                    Comment

                    • Rogi
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 2343

                      Go find a quote from me on any of those things that you've said. It is pointless engaging in discourse with you if you cannot keep to facts.

                      If you are responding to me, then respond to what I have written and my views, do not mix apples and oranges.

                      I am religious and of the Christian-Orthodox faith, and I am an adherent of and strong supporter of the Macedonian Orthodox Church.

                      Given the amount of hatred you have in you on just about anything other than the Serbian Orthodox Church, I could and would argue that my religious Orthodox Christian views are far more closely aligned with the word of God, than yours.

                      Why don't you read through my previous post again and see if you can find anywhere in it where I am espousing any hatred. In fact, all you will see is a lack of respect for those Churches which have gone so far away from the word of God and not just on the matter of negating the Macedonians.

                      As for the matter of negating the Macedonians, every year for the last 10 years we have Greek Bishops who have said there needs to be a war against the 'Skopjans' to 'take back Monastir (Bitola)'. We also have things like Greek bishops blessing the Turkish cannons before they are sent out to kill the Macedonians. Of course, this means very little to you, but to me, it represents a very big difference between what they are actually doing, and what they are saying in the churches during the liturgy.

                      These things are irrefutable, do not even bother to argue that the Greek and Serbian churches are NOT against the Macedonian Church and by implication, its' followers.

                      The only argument you have here, which you have not yet made, is the religious one, to turn the other cheek.

                      You will also find, everywhere in the world, that it is rather the exception to the rule for a Macedonian being able to go to a Greek Orthodox church for something like a wedding, whereas the Macedonian Orthodox Churches here and everywhere, accept all, without demanding that they are re-Christened and so on.

                      I see things clearly and as they are, the Ohrid Archbishopric was abolished in 1767 for the same reasons and purposes that the neighbouring Orthodox Churches today suppress the Macedonian Orthodox Church - it is their politics and their agenda, it is not the word of God.
                      Last edited by Rogi; 01-28-2010, 11:02 AM.

                      Comment

                      • Bill77
                        Senior Member
                        • Oct 2009
                        • 4545

                        Originally posted by Komita View Post
                        Stop taking Bible quotes that suites your own views and the rest you said in your post it's nothing that can be taken serious.
                        They are not my own views. Obviously if i can back them up with scripture, they are Gods view. But enough of Mathew 7:6

                        But lets look at your last post,
                        QUOTE: "No they dont, they are not refusing us the word of God or the teachings.
                        Yes they are if they don't recognise you and wish you don't exist. In particulor the GOC. i can tell you a couple of cases where Macedonian girls had to get baptised as Greek orthadox before she can get married to a Greek in a GOC. If thats not turning you away or refusing you, i don't know what is.


                        QUOTE: "It's laughable that you given yourself the right to judge the churches and their teachings "
                        come on Komita, every one has a right to express there feelings. No one has to be given a right or some sort of permision. settle down.


                        QUOTE: "Most of you have repeatedly posted that you almost regret that your belonging to our church and faith and wished our church would become a part of the Vatican.
                        Your should maybe seek recognition and acceptance from them".
                        Thats bull dust. most are here talking about it because we love and hurt for our MOC at the way it is treated. is it not obvious?
                        http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=120873#post120873

                        Comment

                        • Soldier of Macedon
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 13670

                          Originally posted by Komita
                          Vraniskovski is a lost human that sold himself for a position and influence, he has no support in MACEDONIA and is losing support in SPC, and I let God judge him for his actions.
                          After he disappears, there will be someone else to fill his role. The SOC openly support Vranishkovski's activities in trying to divide Macedonia's Orthodox community.
                          Of course it would like MPC to be independent and recognized, but lets face it the greeks church has alot of influence in the orthodox world.
                          They do, and let's face it, together with the SOC and the BOC, they work against the indepedence and recognition of the MOC.

                          I am stunned at your admiration and lack of criticism for the SOC, this institution that has done much against Orthodox Macedonia. You're a passionate Macedonian, you always have been, good, I just wish that you could channel your energy in defence of, and for the benefit of your own people. Samo gi falis drugite, tolku se sramis kako Makedonec bre coek?
                          In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                          Comment

                          • Komita
                            Member
                            • May 2009
                            • 243

                            Originally posted by Rogi View Post
                            Go find a quote from me on any of those things that you've said. It is pointless engaging in discourse with you if you cannot keep to facts.

                            If you are responding to me, then respond to what I have written and my views, do not mix apples and oranges.

                            I am religious and of the Christian-Orthodox faith, and I am an adherent of and strong supporter of the Macedonian Orthodox Church.

                            Given the amount of hatred you have in you on just about anything other than the Serbian Orthodox Church, I could and would argue that my religious Orthodox Christian views are far more closely aligned with the word of God, than yours.
                            Why don't you read through my previous post again and see if you can find anywhere in it where I am espousing any hatred. In fact, all you will see is a lack of respect for those Churches which have gone so far away from the word of God and not just on the matter of negating the Macedonians.

                            As for the matter of negating the Macedonians, every year for the last 10 years we have Greek Bishops who have said there needs to be a war against the 'Skopjans' to 'take back Monastir (Bitola)'. We also have things like Greek bishops blessing the Turkish cannons before they are sent out to kill the Macedonians. Of course, this means very little to you, but to me, it represents a very big difference between what they are actually doing, and what they are saying in the churches during the liturgy.

                            These things are irrefutable, do not even bother to argue that the Greek and Serbian churches are NOT against the Macedonian Church and by implication, its' followers.

                            The only argument you have here, which you have not yet made, is the religious one, to turn the other cheek.

                            You will also find, everywhere in the world, that it is rather the exception to the rule for a Macedonian being able to go to a Greek Orthodox church for something like a wedding, whereas the Macedonian Orthodox Churches here and everywhere, accept all, without demanding that they are re-Christened and so on.

                            I see things clearly and as they are, the Ohrid Archbishopric was abolished in 1767 for the same reasons and purposes that the neighbouring Orthodox Churches today suppress the Macedonian Orthodox Church - it is their politics and their agenda, it is not the word of God.
                            I cant help but laugh because your in no position to know and judge my views, my hate and who are you to judge if somebody is closer to God or not.
                            This DPMNE reasoning is laughable.
                            Last edited by Komita; 01-28-2010, 11:30 AM.
                            Слава му на Бога за се

                            Comment

                            • Komita
                              Member
                              • May 2009
                              • 243

                              Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
                              After he disappears, there will be someone else to fill his role. The SOC openly support Vranishkovski's activities in trying to divide Macedonia's Orthodox community.

                              They do, and let's face it, together with the SOC and the BOC, they work against the indepedence and recognition of the MOC.

                              I am stunned at your admiration and lack of criticism for the SOC, this institution that has done much against Orthodox Macedonia. You're a passionate Macedonian, you always have been, good, I just wish that you could channel your energy in defence of, and for the benefit of your own people. Samo gi falis drugite, tolku se sramis kako Makedonec bre coek?
                              I give credit to those that deserve credit and I've started wtaching things from a objective way, and now I've learned more that helped my life.
                              If there is nothing to give credit to in Macedonia or it's people I won't do it for the sake of it.
                              In SOC there are som inspirational saints that I admire and like to read about their teachings and writing. Does that man I'm admiring SOC for whats it's done against MPC?
                              Слава му на Бога за се

                              Comment

                              • Soldier of Macedon
                                Senior Member
                                • Sep 2008
                                • 13670

                                I am not asking you to give undue credit to anybody, do I sound like a subjective fool that believes everything in the world is Macedonian? Of course not. I know that Macedonia is not perfect, nor are the Macedonians, but I will not allow my anger towards some elements overtake my sense of Macedonism. You say that there is nothing to credit Macedonia for, are you ashamed of being Macedonian? I hope not, because if you are, you go against your own principles by continuing to identify as a Macedonian.

                                The MOC has more inspirational saints than the SOC, individuals like St Clement and St Kukuzel have done much for Eastern Christianity. Serbia's saints cannot compare to ours, nor should they. And no, your admiration for them does not equal to an admiration for the SOC's pathetic actions towards the MOC, it is your silence against the SOC's actions that troubles me.

                                At a time like this, Macedonia needs all of her sons and daughters, especially the strong and passionate, you are definetly one of these people, but you dedicate your energy to anything but Macedonia. You have given up already yet the fight isn't over, that is not characteristic of you.
                                In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                                Comment

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