Macedonian Orthodox Church - News & Updates

[Komita]

If Komita knew anything about Australia, he would know that Victoria is a dark miserable place. I have seen more sun when I bend over.

Komita, thanks for confirming your undying love for something that places Macedonia second (or third). We can't be sure what it is you love, but Macedonia is not at the top of the list. Your inability to discuss your position is a sign of weakness. Go find a Serbian/Russo/Greko forum or something.

Except of being the adminstrator what factor are your or what have you done for macedonia and it's people in your life, that gives you the right to judge who loves macedonia and not?
I dont discuss wtih ignorant people that thinks the whole world centers around macedonia and its history.

[Komita]

I've tried to stay away from this discussion if it were to be called a discussion but its getting ridiculous now.

I've never seen so much disrespect towards a moderator or an admin its unbelievable, for somebody with such a short temper to come out with that much rudeness and show no respect is disrespecting for everybody even the Greek forum members here. I cant speak for others i can speak for myself i've had my ups and downs and been criticized alot but thats all part and parcel of the game it seems like Komita cant take any criticism whats so ever and if somebody even looks to question him he attacks them.

Komita, I know we are all different and dont think the same because if we did this forum would be a very boring place however you do need to respect peoples opinion even if you dont agree with them, you have been protected and shielded by the admins here and not only that they've shown you an enormous amount of respect to which you've clearly spat it right back into their faces and thats not a good thing. If you got any dignity left inside of you, you will apologize to them because they've shown you alot of respect here much more then anybody else here yet you've continued to misuse it time after time again. Start showing some respect towards the people here aswell as yourself and you will be surprised when you see it given back to you, stop being so negative all the time.

No I wont, feel free to delete my account.

[makedonche]

Komita
You have dishonoured yourself here, do not look for blame amongst others, look first in the mirror before you point the finger elsewhere.
The MTO is one of the most tolerable and multi- faceted forums around that welcomes all people and allows them their views and opinions, this is self evident, there are Greeks, Bulgarians, Turks and others communicating civilly and exchanging valuable information here. You can be a part of this as well, all it takes is mutual respect, if you have difficulty with this concept then this is not the place for you, and if you have difficulty here then I venture to say you are not going to fit in too well anywhere objectivity is a prerequisite.

[Prolet]

Komita, Nobody is threatening you here, nobody is asking you to not be yourself just show respect to the others. Im not an Administrator here so i have no powers to delete anybodies account but you cant keep on behaving this way, i think you will know that the MTO has done alot of good for our people in the diaspora and worked very hard with AMHRC to bring awareness to our people in Australia and abroad, i cant say that too many people know about the MTO in Europe but everybody does their part you cant criticize somebody who wants to do good for our country even if its something small it deserves respect.

[sf.]

...Hmmm ok, i didn't know that but If he went with the western world, then why Tito regime accused Turkish minority in Macedonia with being anti-communist and USA/Turkey supporters, spies of the NATO? They sentenced ~45 elite members of Turkish community to death because of this and lots of teachers, journalists gone to prison for lifetime. So, if he went pro-western, then all this accusations was fake to cover their real intentions???


How about Bulgaria and others? They were more pro-Russian than Yugoslavia at those days?

Re Tito and the Turkish minority. I'm not sure of the incident you're referring to, but accusations for political needs were a feature used against all percieved political threats in Yugoslavia.

I know a lot of Turks left Macedonia in the 50s. I'm not sure that they were exiled, but rather (forcefully) urged. My father, who hardly is an authority on this, suggested that they were lured by Turkey with a promise of a better, capitalistic life. Many Turks stayed in Macedonia and enjoyed good lives there, while many that left, regretted having done so. The regret wasn't necessarily because they were treated badly in Turkey, but rather because they always have felt Macedonia to be their home.

This popular song that celebrates the town of bitola, was composed by a Turkish native of the town, who left for Turkey:

YouTube - Bitola, Moj Roden Kraj - Macedonian Song
//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ajri_Demirovski[/URL]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ajri_Demirovski

As for the Russian 'Empire' in the Balkans, they basically had Romania and Bulgaria under their thumbs. Owing to the strong personality type of Tito, Yugoslavia split ideologically and politically from the other communist states shortly after WW2.

Albania on the other hand is also an interesting case. They isolated themselves form the USSR, because they saw some of the enacted political and economic reforms as a betrayal of communist ideology, and went on to form their own interpretation.

[Mastika]

Hmmm ok, i didn't know that but If he went with the western world, then why Tito regime accused Turkish minority in Macedonia with being anti-communist and USA/Turkey supporters, spies of the NATO? They sentenced ~45 elite members of Turkish community to death because of this and lots of teachers, journalists gone to prison for lifetime. So, if he went pro-western, then all this accusations was fake to cover their real intentions???

Can you provide some sources backing up your claims about Tito working against the Turkish minority? I haven't heard of anything suggesting that Tito was especially unfair to Turks. In fact he was the one who allowed many Turks to leave Macedonia and live in Turkey.

[Big Bad Sven]

Excellent and intelligent response, thanks for confirming the obvious. You're clearly incapable of registering logic in any form, and would rather comment on grammar than content. You're a little a coward, someone unhappy with his life, who, like a typical loser, takes it out on his own. Grow up you mochko.

Many years ago on the maknews forum when ever i got into a debate with this "komita" fellow I realised when ever he was loosing the debate he would resort to name calling and call me a "albanian lover" - or he would criticise my grasp on the macedonian language. The most funny but ludicrous "come back" from this fellow was that he tried proving to me, and others on the maknews forum that he was the biggest macedonian patriot on the forum because he went to macedonia 4 times a year every year and that we lowly macedonians from australia are beneath him because we go back home once ever two years (or some thing stupid like that).

Im guessing he doesn’t post on maknews anymore because he became a huge laughing stock, and I believe they referred to him as a “srboman”.

[Big Bad Sven]

Except of being the adminstrator what factor are your or what have you done for macedonia and it's people in your life, that gives you the right to judge who loves macedonia and not?
I dont discuss wtih ignorant people that thinks the whole world centers around macedonia and its history.

RTG has done more for the macedonian people then you have or ever will.

But we dont know you so well, so maybe you can inform us on what YOU have done for macedonia and the macedonians - If you are so quick to question other peoples "macedonianess".

[julie]

Except of being the adminstrator what factor are your or what have you done for macedonia and it's people in your life, that gives you the right to judge who loves macedonia and not?
I dont discuss wtih ignorant people that thinks the whole world centers around macedonia and its history.

RTG does not blow his own horn, he has done a lot for the Macedonian community and the Macedonian cause, the fact that he is not in his own ego says a lot for his character and dignity and selflessness.

I am taking offence with that comment you have made knowing the man that he is, and I dont understand your attacks here when someone asks why you take the stance you do, answer it.

I asked where you are from, and you ignore it.

I dont know SoM , but from what I have seen on this forum, he is tolerant and a gentleman, and does not deserve the response you have provided

When I have stepped over the mark, I have had the balls and graciousness to do so. Its called character and integrity

[Bratot]

I don't see a reason to declare account for our cause in the eyes of some ideologically-cripple fool who admire somebody else's church.

Making fun of the connection to our ancestors is proving us how fractional and phoney is his personal belief.

[Volk]

Our existence is a reality, if they dont like it they can shove it.

I sure as hell dont need 'recognition' from any church, they should go to Ohrid and bow down on one knee for their idiocy, while there at it, they should ask themselves which language they speak in church, which script they write in and where it comes from.

[Onur]

Re Tito and the Turkish minority. I'm not sure of the incident you're referring to, but accusations for political needs were a feature used against all percieved political threats in Yugoslavia.

I know a lot of Turks left Macedonia in the 50s. I'm not sure that they were exiled, but rather (forcefully) urged. My father, who hardly is an authority on this, suggested that they were lured by Turkey with a promise of a better, capitalistic life. Many Turks stayed in Macedonia and enjoyed good lives there, while many that left, regretted having done so. The regret wasn't necessarily because they were treated badly in Turkey, but rather because they always have felt Macedonia to be their home.

I couldn't find articles on the web written in English but the Turkish articles says that tha Turks in Macedonia formed an organization named "Yucel" against Nazi supported Bulgars who invaded Skopje at WW-2 days. They were working in collaboration with Tito forces. After the war, They were enjoying relatively good life, they issue a newspaper named "Birlik(Union in English)", they educate in Turkish at the schools etc. Then all of a sudden, Tito regime perceive them as a threat and they ban everything related about them at September 1947. Around 70 people got jailed and some more sentenced to death at 1948.

Articles mentions that these events happened before Tito`s departure from Communist union at 1950. After he gets into good relations with western world, he forgives some of imprisoned Turks and release them.

I haven't heard of anything suggesting that Tito was especially unfair to Turks. In fact he was the one who allowed many Turks to leave Macedonia and live in Turkey.

Yes, he permits Turks to migrate out to Turkey at 1953. After that, ~170.000 people goes to Turkey but this cant be considered as a sign of goodwill since ~170.000 is huge amount of people and i don't think they would leave their hometown and properties without any money. Yes, maybe they thought the life in Turkey would be better for them but you gotta consider that they started their life here from scratch by leaving everything back in Macedonia.



Also, i don't think that they have been treated badly here. Why would we? There is no reason at all. Even our previous mayor here was one of these Macedonia immigrants but ofc Macedonia was their homeland. They weren't immigrants there, they were local inhabitants for centuries.

In one of Turkish article, author has written a comment like; the Turkish population used by Tito like a buffer against Albanians at that time, thats why he supported them first to keep Albanian people under control. Then when he felt that he doesn't need them anymore, he forcefully urged and encouraged them to leave Macedonia.

Authors also mentions about the assimilation attempts of Albanians was also another reason for them to go Turkey. It says that Albanians forced them to declare that they are ethnic Albanians in census of 1948.

[sf.]

Also, i don't think that they have been treated badly here. Why would we? There is no reason at all. Even our previous mayor here was one of these Macedonia immigrants but ofc Macedonia was their homeland. They weren't immigrants there, they were local inhabitants for centuries.

Thanks for the info. In regards to my mistreatment comment, I wasn't referring to any governmental policy or systemic mistreatment from the local population. It's just that in cases of mass displacement, integration into new society has some difficulties, and minor tensions between people inevitably occur.

[Onur]

It's just that in cases of mass displacement, integration into new society has some difficulties, and minor tensions between people inevitably occur.

Yes thats true but Turkey used to this, since from 1880s, like once in every ~20 years, we saw mass migrations of people from different places to here and we cant refuse them either since they were our ex-citizens from the Empire days.

[Mastika]

Yes, he permits Turks to migrate out to Turkey at 1953. After that, ~170.000 people goes to Turkey but this cant be considered as a sign of goodwill since ~170.000 is huge amount of people and i don't think they would leave their hometown and properties without any money. Yes, maybe they thought the life in Turkey would be better for them but you gotta consider that they started their life here from scratch by leaving everything back in Macedonia.

Macedonian immigrants to Australia all had to start their lives from scratch, thats the way it was in the 1950s. Once they found a job and started to earn an income many of these people quickly established themselves. Many of these people left because they thought that their lives would be better in Turkey then in Yugoslavia. Btw. Onur, many of these people left with their money and valuables, they were allowed to take many of their possesions and those that they could not take they sold and kept the money.