Macedonian-Turkish relations

[Makedonetz]

my grandfather used to tell us when they fought agiants the greek facisti, greeks would chant come out and realize who you really are inside as greeks or we will slaughter your entire villiage like pigs.

[Pelister]

To me, nothing...

EU is just an unification attempt of the fossils in my opinion. Its destined to be fail...


A lot of people asking the same here to create a block with Turkish speaking countries in Caucasus with the support of Russia(if necessary) but you know what, I am %100 sure that this can be a reason for war with great powers. They do whatever it takes to prevent it if we even try to realize that.

It is important to avoid war at all costs, but Turkey can pursue its economic interests without directly provoking the West I am sure of it. Its important to stand up for your rights (something the Macedonians have failed at miserably).

The problem in the entire region is Greece. Greece has a problem with ALL of its neighbours, its aggressive and paranoid about all of them. Greece is also 'the Wests' client State in the region. That means it has been able to get away with just about everything. Turkey is the only state that has been able to stand up to this bully, and got away with it.

[johnMKD]

I know this doesn't mean that all Greeks share the same reasoning(but unfortunately, most :S, i guess...). I meant the racist army officers of Greece and yes, I hope they never go out of Greece`s borders for their own good.

They fled by jumping in the water at Imia, its the truth and the very same naval squad chanted about killing us(Turks, Macedonians, Albanians) brutally 1 month ago. Regular people who applauded and the priest who encourage them for the Aegean as seen in youtube video was even more disturbing than the soldiers tough.

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=46120#post46120






No, this is not true. You cannot consider racism as a norm for training soldiers. Turkish army never does this. Also our army has more than enough glory to chant about, hatred towards some other people would be against our culture and very irrelevant here.

I don't believe that racism is a usual tactic to train soldiers in majority of the world. It shouldn't be that way. Maybe except Greece, USA, England and few others.

Onur, for sure not all Greeks are racists, and for sure I'm not one as well. As far as Imia/Kardak is concerned I'm also sure that both sides have different stories to narrate. Again, we come down to our mutual stupidity and hatred with regard to that. I don't think it's nice to remember/remind such events for the shake of our people and friendship.

For the army chanting I'm totally against it, but I'm afraid it's a common tactic for many countries. I cannot deny what you sent via the link it's true, because I KNOW it has happened. But, you need to also realise that if a soldier chants this crap doesn't necessarily mean that he also believes it. He'd might as well just following orders.

[Komita]

Do you know how much EU and Greece scares of Turkish military presence at Balkans??? If Macedonia asks something like that to Turkey, i am sure EU threatens you to end membership negotiations because EU and Greece even tried to stop Turkey rescuing Bosnians from the genocide at 1993. You know Greece even supported Milosevic`s actions at that time.

When Milosevic and Serbians started to massacre Bosnians at 1992-1993, incoming news were the Dutch UN soldiers was doing nothing to prevent Serbians killing Bosnians and then Turkish military gone there immediately even with opposition of EU and Greece to that. We didn't listen to them because whole EU was doing nothing and watching them die. Our soldiers deported around ~250.000 of Bosnians to Turkey at that time and some of them was even our guests in our homes for some time because most of these people was the relatives of our former Bosnian immigrant citizens.
I remember their misery at that time because most of them came to Izmir. There was no place to settle 250.000 people who came here all of a sudden. All hotels was full with them, like 100 of them were staying at my high school`s gymnasium and students were collecting money between each other to buy them food. One family was staying at my friend`s house because his parents was Bosnia born immigrants. They were keep crying and hugging us. Half of them became Turkish citizen laters and stayed here.

Great fairy tale. What you forgot to mention was that you provided mujahideen warriors with weapons and training in Bosnia but also turkish volunteers.

[Komita]

What???

Did i say "Greece doesn't scare of Turkish army b4??? Quote me then... Only thing i said was; Turkey never ever occupies any Balkan country. If we go somewhere else, it will be only for rescue operations of innocent people from fascists like Greek army. We got military forces at Sarajevo and Kosovo now but not to occupy, we stay there for people`s security. And you know what, one of my friend was at Turkish Kosovo forces 2 years ago for his military service. He told me that Kosovo people were extremely friendly to Turkish army and he even said some restaurants wouldn't even accept money from him several times.



Bosnian genocide at 1990s was the very first time for Turkish army stepped in Balkans for 100 years, since the Empire days. We only gone there to stop Milosevic forces and to save our fellow Bosnians.

You can be sure that it wont be last if fascists like Serbs or Greeks tries to do same thing on innocent people again.

So, Greek army can continue to chant racist stuff about Hagia Sophia for 600 years more, trust me we don't care at all but i hope they stay at Athens since they cant get away by swimming at Balkans either, like they did at Imia island.

Bosnian Genocide? Is that something you made up, or a bad joke. What did you want to help your fellow bosnians with? The ones you made muslim by force..
Milosevic wasnt the supreme commander of the bosnian serb amy nor did he help them.
Haghia Sophia will God willing one day serve as a church again.

[Bill77]

[QUOTE = Komita; 49837] Bosnian Genocide? Is that something you made up, or a bad joke. What did you want to help your fellow bosnians with? The ones you made muslim by force ..
Milosevic wasnt the supreme commander of the bosnian serb amy nor did he help them.
Haghia Sophia will God willing one day serve as a church again. [/ QUOTE]




What would you call the serb atrocities? And you seriously think Milo had nothing to do with it?

About this Haghia Sophia church, i am asuming its a Serbian church and i personaly don't care for a religion that shits on ours.

[Onur]

Bosnian Genocide? Is that something you made up, or a bad joke. What did you want to help your fellow bosnians with? The ones you made muslim by force..
Milosevic wasnt the supreme commander of the bosnian serb amy nor did he help them.
Haghia Sophia will God willing one day serve as a church again.

I neither have time nor will to discuss this with you.

How come you deny the 200.000 people killed by Serbians 15 years ago???? and 50.000 women raped. It`s accepted as genocide by International Court of Justice, so your opinion on that means nothing to me.

Also why you bring their religion on the table??? Or you wanna say that Bosnians deserved it because they were Muslim people???

[Komita]

I neither have time nor will to discuss this with you.

How come you deny the 200.000 people killed by Serbians 15 years ago???? and 50.000 women raped. It`s accepted as genocide by International Court of Justice, so your opinion on that means nothing to me.

Also why you bring their religion on the table??? Or you wanna say that Bosnians deserved it because they were Muslim people???

According to all organizations and UN that counted the casualties of the Bosnian civil was came up with the numbers around 100.000 counting all sides.
50 000 women raped show me any source that can back up this number?
International court of justice hasnt accepted anything but maybe that's turkish courts, nobody deserves to die because of their religion stop putting words into my mouth.

[Spartan]

About this Haghia Sophia church, i am asuming its a Serbian church and i personaly don't care for a religion that shits on ours.

Agia Sofia is in Constantinople Bill.
Probably the most famous Orthodox churh wordwide.

Agia sofia was to the orthodox people, what the Vatican is to the catholics.

[Bill77]

Agia Sofia is in Constantinople Bill.
Probably the most famous Orthodox churh wordwide.

Agia sofia was to the orthodox people, what the Vatican is to the catholics.

Thanks for that clarification Spartan. But how did Komita get from Bosnia to Agia Sofia in the discusion.

To tell you the truth, i don't realy want to know.

[Prolet]

Turks to build 100 story buildings in Skopje

Im not sure how true this is but its in all the news sites around stari kraj, 100 katnici lets just say that the Eureka tower in Melbourne is not even 90 stories and its bloody massive they want to build this many floors its going take ages. Maybe the Grollo brothers can lend a hand. They want to build three hundred story buildings as it says.

Word has it that Onur from Onur Holding in Sheherezad is part of the deal. LOL

НА ЛИЦИТАЦИЈА ПРОДАДЕНО ЗЕМЈИШТЕ ВО ОПШТИНА АЕРОДРОМ


Стокатниците ќе ги гради турски холдинг

Компанијата Џеваир доби можност да гради три висококатници на сопствена парцела со површина од 21.150 квадрати меѓу булеварите "Трета македонска бригада" и "Србија", зад бензинската пумпа "Макоил", за 4700 денари за квадратен метар


Турскиот холдинг Џеваир стана сопственик на локацијата меѓу булеварите Трета македонска бригадаа и Србијаа зад бензинската пумпа Макоилл во Аеродром, каде што е предвидена изградба на три стокатници. Оваа компанија победи на јавното наддавање на градежната парцела што се одржа вчера во Министерството за транспорт и врски на кое беше пријавена уште една турска фирма. Но, таа воопшто не учествуваше на наддавањето, така што холдингот Џеваир лесно, за 4700 денари за квадратен метар, односно за само 100 денари повеќе од почетната цена по квадрат, доби можност на сопствена парцела со површина од 21.150 квадрати да гради три висококатници. Турската компанија во следниот период ќе мора да склучи официјален купопродажен договор и да изврши солемнизација на земјиштето по што во рок од 9 месеци треба да добие градежна дозвола. Изградбата на висококатниците мора да заврши најмногу за шест години.

Според Деталниот урбанистички план на оваа парцела е предвидена изградба на три облакодери со висина од најмалку 33, а најмногу 124 ката, односно со максимална висина до 500 метри. На оваа површина се предвидува и изградба на 7.000 паркинг-места, од кои 3.200 се наменети за потребите на облакодерите.

Сепак, претставниците на Џеваир вчера не сакаа да откријат дали ќе градат стокатници или пак ќе ја искористат можноста да градат 33-катници. Рекоа дека тоа ќе зависи од стандардите кои мора да ги запазат при изградбата на хотелот како и од архитектонските проекти кои допрва треба да се изработат. Сепак, најавија дека освен зградите, ќе изградат и голем трговски центар.
Тие се пофалија дека холдингот Џеваир е фирма со 60-годишна традиција, компанија која е една од најуспешните во Турција која во изминатите децении има изградено неколку хотели во својата земја, но и во Либан и Саудиска Арабија. За македонските туристи името Џеваир холдинг може да е познато по тоа што оваа фирма е сопственик на еден од трите најголеми шопинг центри во Истамбул.

http://www.vecer.com.mk/default.asp?ItemID=A901BD64260567478A085E939C5B7FE5

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vecer.com.mk%2Fdefault.asp%3FItemID%3DA901BD64260567478A085E939C5B7FE5&sl=mk&tl=en

[Phoenix]

Im not sure how true this is but its in all the news sites around stari kraj, 100 katnici lets just say that the Eureka tower in Melbourne is not even 90 stories and its bloody massive they want to build this many floors its going take ages. Maybe the Grollo brothers can lend a hand. They want to build three hundred story buildings as it says.

Word has it that Onur from Onur Holding in Sheherezad is part of the deal. LOL

НА ЛИЦИТАЦИЈА ПРОДАДЕНО ЗЕМЈИШТЕ ВО ОПШТИНА АЕРОДРОМ


Стокатниците ќе ги гради турски холдинг

Компанијата Џеваир доби можност да гради три висококатници на сопствена парцела со површина од 21.150 квадрати меѓу булеварите "Трета македонска бригада" и "Србија", зад бензинската пумпа "Макоил", за 4700 денари за квадратен метар


Турскиот холдинг Џеваир стана сопственик на локацијата меѓу булеварите Трета македонска бригадаа и Србијаа зад бензинската пумпа Макоилл во Аеродром, каде што е предвидена изградба на три стокатници. Оваа компанија победи на јавното наддавање на градежната парцела што се одржа вчера во Министерството за транспорт и врски на кое беше пријавена уште една турска фирма. Но, таа воопшто не учествуваше на наддавањето, така што холдингот Џеваир лесно, за 4700 денари за квадратен метар, односно за само 100 денари повеќе од почетната цена по квадрат, доби можност на сопствена парцела со површина од 21.150 квадрати да гради три висококатници. Турската компанија во следниот период ќе мора да склучи официјален купопродажен договор и да изврши солемнизација на земјиштето по што во рок од 9 месеци треба да добие градежна дозвола. Изградбата на висококатниците мора да заврши најмногу за шест години.

Според Деталниот урбанистички план на оваа парцела е предвидена изградба на три облакодери со висина од најмалку 33, а најмногу 124 ката, односно со максимална висина до 500 метри. На оваа површина се предвидува и изградба на 7.000 паркинг-места, од кои 3.200 се наменети за потребите на облакодерите.

Сепак, претставниците на Џеваир вчера не сакаа да откријат дали ќе градат стокатници или пак ќе ја искористат можноста да градат 33-катници. Рекоа дека тоа ќе зависи од стандардите кои мора да ги запазат при изградбата на хотелот како и од архитектонските проекти кои допрва треба да се изработат. Сепак, најавија дека освен зградите, ќе изградат и голем трговски центар.
Тие се пофалија дека холдингот Џеваир е фирма со 60-годишна традиција, компанија која е една од најуспешните во Турција која во изминатите децении има изградено неколку хотели во својата земја, но и во Либан и Саудиска Арабија. За македонските туристи името Џеваир холдинг може да е познато по тоа што оваа фирма е сопственик на еден од трите најголеми шопинг центри во Истамбул.

http://www.vecer.com.mk/default.asp?ItemID=A901BD64260567478A085E939C5B7FE5

http://translate.google.com/translat...E5&sl=mk&tl=en

sounds like bullshit...Eureka Tower (Melbourne) is 91 stories high and is ranked in the top 50 highest buildings in the World...

[fyrOM]

stupid idea if true. skopje has no need for such buildings.

[Onur]

sounds like bullshit...Eureka Tower (Melbourne) is 91 stories high and is ranked in the top 50 highest buildings in the World...

I don't know this construction project in Skopje is true or not but this Cevahir Holding is billion dollars worth construction company in Turkey. They did Europe`s biggest malls in Turkey. I guess one of their shopping mall in Istanbul is world`s 4-5th biggest. They also constructed lots of high towers for rich Arabs. So, they are certainly capable of constructing high towers.


This is the Europe`s biggest mall in Istanbul with twin towers, constructed by them in 2003 or 2005, dont remember;

stupid idea if true. skopje has no need for such buildings.

I was wondering same thing. Whats the population of Skopje? The economy there big enough to attract big brands in that center??? Rental prices should be cheaper than Istanbul but, its huge investment anyway. In Wikipedia, it says that their mall in Istanbul has 190.000 daily visitors. This is not possible in Skopje.

[Phoenix]

Onur, I don't doubt the credentials of the Turkish company to build such a structure, I doubt that they would do so in Skopje, furthermore the article alludes to the construction of 3 such towers (100 storey), I can't see how such a project could be economically feasible in a country of 2 million people, the entire population of Macedonia could be housed in the 3 buildings...lol