John Bitove

[Daniel the Great]

John Bitove

This is John Bitove in a interview.
Watch the second half of the video when things start getting emotional when John starts talking about the Deca Begalci (Refugee Children).


YouTube - Global Conference of the UMD - John Bitove 2

Very sad, well done to him for expressing him self in a topic that is obviously hard for him to speak about.

[Bratot]

Maybe you should reconsider the touchy moment after reading this:

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=3739

[Daniel the Great]

Bratot, if you are referring to the UMD i am not supporting them in anyway by posting this video, i simply wanted to show John Bitove and his interview.

[julie]

Daniel, read the posts, and you will see what Bratot is referring to, this man is a good actor with the waterworks , its put on, once you read the references in the thread, he may have felt that way at one time.

[Daniel the Great]

I have read some of the posts on the thread and i see that he was close with Gligorov and Crvenkovski, dose that mean he shares the same views as those predavnici?

[osiris]

guys you are all becoming a little to fanatical and looking for ideological purity is pointless and counterproductive, especailly looking at the past and judging it by the present.

i am getting very disillusioned with this modern holier than thou cheat beating macedonianism.

[Prolet]

Osiris, Good to have you back brother

You must admit though it was a very emotional interview, i've never seen John Bitove Senior break down like that before.

[Bratot]

guys you are all becoming a little to fanatical and looking for ideological purity is pointless and counterproductive, especailly looking at the past and judging it by the present.i am getting very disillusioned with this modern holier than thou cheat beating macedonianism.

I'm not sure since when you become so liberal toward the persons who have brought so much harm on us.

The only way how to protect ourselfs and our interests from being dellusioned again by the same people is to learn from the past.

None of us invented the NYT article from 1993 nor the official transcript from the Macedonian parlamentary session in 2005.

Едно време имавме лобисти од типот на Џон
Битов кој 1992-93 година зема 800 илјади долари
од македонскиот Буџет и божем лобираше во
Канада за македонското признавање. Овде
заедно со госпоѓата Митрева расправавме, кои
не беа мали пари имајки во предвид дека
девизните резерви на Македонија беа под 100
милијони долари. Говорам за периодот 1991 или
1992 година, мислам дека беше 1992 година. Се
случуваа апсурдни ситуации. Ние буквално се да
даваме, а ќар, користа за државата беше еднаква
на нула. И сега го гледам Претседателот на
државата во Канада повторно со господинот Џон
Битов нешто рпави, божем работи, а ниакде ги
нема резултатите

109-01/1.-
СТЕНОГРАФСКИ БЕЛЕШКИ
од Првото продолжение на Сто и деветтата
седница на Собранието на Република
Македонија, одржана на 7 октомври 2005
година

Александар Флоровски

http://www.sobranie.mk/WBStorage/Fil...07.10.2005.pdf

The New York Times
3 July 1992

Until recently, the United States and most Governments of the European Community accepted not only the Republic of Macedonia's credentials as a newly independent nation but also its chosen designation.

What changed , European diplomats and Administration officials said, was a perception that President Gligorov was willing to make some sort of compromise on the name issue. This perception was apparently created by remarks made in the spring by Macedonian leaders to European officials and by an American lobbyist.

"There were indications that there was some flexibility there," a senior State Department official said. 'A Deal to Be Made'

According to State Department officials and Macedonian representatives here, the idea of Skopje's flexibility was spread last month by Robert C. McFarlane, the former national security adviser, who was hired several months ago as a lobbyist by Macedonians.

An Administration official said that after President Gligorov's visit to Washington in mid-May, Mr. McFarlane was quoted by State Department officials as saying: " There's a deal to be made. Gligorov sees a need for it."
In a telephone interview, Mr. McFarlane acknowledged speaking to State Department officials about Macedonia. He said he was being paid "a modest sum" by John Bitove, whom he described as a Toronto businessman of Macedonian origin. In fact, Mr. Bitove is president of the Canadian Macedonian Society, which is closely linked to President Gligorov.
In the category of "lobbyists," the society's May 25 financial summary lists disbursements of $39,021.04 to McFarlane Associates, Mr. McFarlane's Washington-based company. A total of $73,717.61 is listed as "payable" to the firm.

http://www.nytimes.com/1992/07/04/wo...macedonia.html

I'm not going to praise someone who had private interest in selling out the interests of the whole people.

[Pelister]

Does anyone want to put a project plan together to build a Macedonian Church town (50 - 70,000 people), in south Western Macedonia - and then present it to Mr Bitov among others for finance ? He might love the idea - there is no profit in it, but it will guarantee the region stays Macedonian, and it will give us at least 2 and as many as 3 extra Macedonian members of Parliament. If Bitov is financially backing some Macedonians, perhaps he might consider something such as this?

[osiris]

daniel there are no perfect people and definately no perfect patriots.

vmro of old was riddled with people whose actions also harmed the macedonian cause and yet today they are venerated as political saints.

the illinden uprising was disatstrous for macedonia yet we celebrate it.

bitove has done much for macedonia, and much more than his many detractors.

as for gligurov, he was aproduct of his time withing the yugoslav culture, and he believed in the slavic migration theory as did many others, myself included. to criticise him for being wrong is fair enough but to criticize him as being anti macedonian is plain wrong.

his vmro critics while in power had the oppourtunity to reverse the actions he ws critiszed for but never did. instead once in power spent much time enriching themselves somethig that gligurov cannot be accused of, and then their famous idiot leader of that party who was going to be our spasitel declared himself to be a bugarin.

it can be argued we do have some slavic influence in our dna and our language is part of a family of langauges spoken by slavic nations, unlike bulgarian.

the pressure brought upon gligurov by our new found us buddies to conform to their wishes will i hope one day be made public, and maybe then gligurov will be remembered in a different more sympathetic light. unfortunatly the same can never be said about vmros leader georgievski.

vmros famous spiritual leader and georgievskis mentor dragan bogdanovski some think was an udba spy, yet now he is also a famous macedonian patriot beyond criticism.

prolet thanks for your comments but i am no longer able to contribute to the forum for personal reasons.

but i will say it is alarming to have fascist on this forum masquerading as uber patriots setting some of the standards for what is and isnt a good macedonian

[Vangelovski]

Osiris,

This is a huge change in your position.

However, in order to stop history repeating itself and prevent the cause from being infiltrated by suspect individuals and destructive visions for Macedonia, I would expect nothing less than ideological perfection (as far as that can be attained).

Anything less, and the likes of UMD will crop up all over the place with their anti-freedom, pro-vassal visions.

[osiris]

who is the judge of historically correct ideological positions vangelovski.

you

i am trying to be realistic here, if the accord is not supported by vmro then its time they repudiated it.

like you repudiated umd

i dont support the accord but i dont think gligurov was the devil incarnate either, and certainly not a traitor, just a leader caught in avery hard situation much harder than the one faced by our leaders now.

[Vangelovski]

i dont support the accord but i dont think gligurov was the devil incarnate either, and certainly not a traitor, just a leader caught in avery hard situation much harder than the one faced by our leaders now.

I think that is absolute garbage for reasons we've gone over time and again.

If Gligorov was such a defender of Macedonian freedom, but couldn't handle the "pressure" he should have stepped aside and allowed others to take his place.

Further, I don't see how Gligorov was in a much harder situation than that faced by Macedonian revolutionaries in the 19th and early 20th centuries, or our fathers/grandfathers in the second world war.

[Rogi]

Osiris,

The Republic of Macedonia has still not seen a leader who is worthy of veneration, though many, if not all of us have been duped in the past. Understandably, it is history itself, including the past 20 years, that are leading the sharpening of the critical Macedonian views. Treachury under duress and volunteer treachery, are still both treachery and result in the same outcome and we cannot accept either, at any point, nor should we revise history in the future in an attempt to do so.

This is why we have set to define the Macedonian Cause, to set and define the basic principles of any patriotic Macedonian, organisation, leadership and Government, regardless of their political and ideological views.

It is both to protect us from being duped and to protect us from veering off course.

I do however agree that there should not be this prevailing "I am a bigger patriot" mentality, albeit that too has it's merits in ensuring some checks and bounds remain in staying true to the course set forth by the Macedonian Cause.

[Bratot]

vmros famous spiritual leader and georgievskis mentor dragan bogdanovski some think was an udba spy, yet now he is also a famous macedonian patriot beyond criticism.

but i will say it is alarming to have fascist on this forum masquerading as uber patriots setting some of the standards for what is and isnt a good macedonian

This is not the Osiris I used to read before.

Are you calling me a 'fascist' Osiris?

Your classifications to be honest looks very silly and beside that it's pretty much sad, to have you support persons like Gligorov, Georgievski and Bitove as 'true Macedonian' leaders and contributors to our cause.
Who else Osiris.. maybe Kolishevski and Tito?

Maybe it's early to come up with such conclussion but I sense a true SDSM loyality in your reactions, I hope to be wrong.