John Bitove

[Prolet]

Vangelovski, Do you know what Jorgan Planina is? Patriot posle vojna ne se pravi

We were a poor weak country with two broken tanks left over by the Serbs, the UN was guarding our borders for gods sake. You can say this to a Macedonian whos never been to Macedonia before but not me i know exactly what happened and i will tell you why the people where conned into believing the communists.

The 1990 so called Ante Markovic era was probably the best time of everyone's lives where they could pretty much afford anything they wanted and this period lasted for one year and after that Yugoslavia broke away.

What the Serbs did to us in 1991 was probably the biggest crime against humanity anyone could commit, they took everything they could from our army barracks,hospitals they left us with broken beds, they even took away the power points while 10% of our wages went to the army which we were apart of. We worked our arses off while the funds where going to Belgrade and then they threatened us with war it was only because of Kiro Gligorov that we didnt go to war because of his strong ties to Serbia.

They wouldnt try doing it now thats for sure, but its a different time now we are so much better then we were before.

[Vangelovski]

Prolet,

Are you purposely playing the clown and if so to what end? Your posts are the most erratic and irrelevant I have seen from anyone. So much so, I'm begining to question your true intentions on these forums.

[Prolet]

Vangelovski, In 92-93 we were very weak, now we are much better thats it.

Things have changed for the better, you are blaming John Bitove because of something that happened in 1992. Im just explaining what it was like back then, now be civil are lets have a realistic chat here.

Its easy to sit there and criticize about something that happened nearly 20 years ago thats done and dusted we need to look at the future. As you are aware, John Bitove Senior is a penzioner while his son is leading the Macedonia 2025 project this is whats happening now.

[Vangelovski]

Prolet,

What would you know about 92-93? You just finished telling me that you were following Gligorov like a mindless zombie becuase you didn't have an Iphone.

A "realistic chat"? Decide on a topic you want to "chat" about, and we'll "chat". Lets see how long you can stay focused.

[Prolet]

Thanks Vangelovski

How about we discuss the 92-93 era on how you think we had what it takes to avoid the situation. I agree that major mistakes where made, but John Botive Senior is hardly to blame for it. He tried to make a difference with Gligorov and when he saw what he was up against he pulled away, thats no different to whats happened with Ljube and Ljubco. You cant say that we wernt fooled at some stage with their fake patriotic speeches.

Its got nothing to do with Iphones, we have better technology and equipment to gather information and we are alot more informed now then we where 20 years ago im not saying what happened 20 years ago was a good thing far from it, im saying that we are finally moving in the right direction after a good 15 years of hell by those komunjari and predavnici.


Just so i make myself clear, the Komunjari are people like Gligorov,Branko,Denko,Frcko while the Predavnici are Ljube,Ljubco etc the so called right wingers who have brought nothing but treason to our people in the past 20 years.

[Bratot]

@ Proletce

you are trying to change the subject and from unknown reason to me you seek in being advocate for someone you didn't even know, but you simply chose to be in his favor, explaining something pretty much irrelevant things, of no need about the concrete role of Bitove.

It seems to me you would defend even Gligorov from his guilt and rest of the traitors, since Bitove lived all his life in America and had nothing to do with the life and it's difficulties in Macedonia whatsoever.

His motives according to what I read was gaining matherial use even though the Macedonian sore state was basically bankrupt, he took money from Gligorov and he assisted him in changing the name.


So, some ridiculous statements of your really doesn't deserve any of mine or Vangelovski attention, I don't know why we bother replaying to you at first place, since you do behave as a clown and your playing polite guy in here doesn't have to testify for your sincere true intentions in our discussions.

[Risto the Great]

It is a tough discussion.
Even if Bitov has matured in his ideology since 20 years ago, he places his faith (or influence) on the UMD. Which in turn raises additional or continued questions about his intentions.

What intrigues me is the motivation to do the wrong thing against Macedonia. I can understand why politicians would sell themselves for short term gain. But when Diaspora Macedonians tow the same line as Macedonia's politicians with respect to compromises etc, then if there is no financial gain to be had, it does not make sense. In other words, if there is no money in it for him, I doubt he would be willing to compromise our identity. But we don't really know about the money part yet ... do we ???

[Prolet]

Bratot, I would be your friend if i attacked Bitove? Just as i thought

Risto, Bitove is deeply involved with the UMD, infact he labeled the organization as the best he's seen. I guess we can never know the whole story about him, he did donate (His foundation) $50K to the UMD who knows what he's got up his sleeve but the reality is that we need people like him. I just hope his heart is in the right place

[Vangelovski]

Bratot, I would be your friend if i attacked Bitove? Just as i thought

Risto, Bitove is deeply involved with the UMD, infact he labeled the organization as the best he's seen. I guess we can never know the whole story about him, he did donate (His foundation) $50K to the UMD who knows what he's got up his sleeve but the reality is that we need people like him. I just hope his heart is in the right place

Prolet,

Rather than "hope", how about you join a few dots together.

At the rate you are going, you'll be back here in 10 years claiming that not only could you not have known about UMD, but that noone else could have known the policies of UMD because of the lack of some future technology that we currently do not possess.

I'm not sure why you are playing the clown, but I suspect you like to clog up important threads with absolute garbage - but to what end?

[Bratot]

Bratot, I would be your friend if i attacked Bitove? Just as i thought

Risto, Bitove is deeply involved with the UMD, infact he labeled the organization as the best he's seen. I guess we can never know the whole story about him, he did donate (His foundation) $50K to the UMD who knows what he's got up his sleeve but the reality is that we need people like him. I just hope his heart is in the right place

It's not about attacking, it's about your advocancy of his.

He haven't deserve it, nor those texts with the information about him doesn't really convince me about his interest for the good of Macedonia - which is my good also.
And that's why every one of us will take such fraudulent patriot so personally and that's why your irrational advocancy instead of the objective reasoning is ofending not only my intelect and personal devotion but it's going further in the perversion of the dubious role Bitove have had in that time and now some organisation is basically promoting him as one of the "biggest Macedonian patriots" and honor him for a "Life Achievement in Macedonian matters".

I don't use this forum as a social page to meet&date someone, I measure everything by your words and you can become only a person of same interest with me, so far you are inconvincing about our common interest.

And please, don't replay with a question anymore, especially not some irrelevant obscure as you usually make.

[Prolet]

Bratot, You are the one slandering Bitove here, i was simply stating the obvious that he received a lifetime achievement award by the UMD, if you think im promoting him by that then so be it.

Vangelovski, Join the dots from 1992 or 2010? What era shall we discuss? Its no doubt that John Bitove was close to Kiro Gligorov at the beginning but from what i know that was a short period of time and Bitove withdrew his support and he was gone for a long time. It wasnt till his son started leading the Macedonia 2025 Organization that we started to hear a bit more about the Bitove family.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Prolet, your style of writing has changed a little. Pak zapra so rakijata?

[Prolet]

SOM, Before you mention that perhaps you could give us your view on John Bitove? Do you believe those allegations that are made against him?

[Prolet]

Here is an interview with John Bitove

YouTube - Global Conference of the UMD - John Bitove 1

YouTube - Global Conference of the UMD - John Bitove 2

[Bratot]

Bitov should have said: "Makedonija mi e vo dzhepot"