Macedonian-Russian Relations

[Big Bad Sven]

If it wasnt for Russia christians in the Balkans would most probably still live like "kauri" under ottoman empire and owning nothing but a mule and the only development would be mosques.

What about the Romanians, "greeks", bulgarian slavs and your precious serbs that all battled and died in the balkan wars? And most importantly what about the macedonian revolutionaries who died valiantly in the Illenden uprising? From memory no one came to their rescue when they asked for help and battled alone.....

We must also thank the Russians for supporting San Stefano Bulgaria and the Bulgarisation of Macedonia and the Macedonians.

We must also support them for their support of the serbs in the serbinization of Vardar macedonia in the first yugoslavia, remember thats why there where so many russians and belorussians in vardar macedonia at that time, they came as colonists to help increase the serbinization process.

And finally we should thank the russians for all of their support of the macedonian orthodox church, one of the most important churches in all of the orthodox world.

Politics is a bitch im afraid.

[Soldier of Macedon]

If it wasnt for Russia christians in the Balkans would most probably still live like "kauri" under ottoman empire and owning nothing but a mule and the only development would be mosques.

Komita, do you think Russia fought against the Ottomans for expansion in land and influence or to liberate their brother 'kauri'?

Relating specifically to Macedonia and the Macedonians, our ancestral land and people, can you please explain to me what they (Russians) did during Ottoman times to ensure that we aren't left with nothing but mules and mosques?

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Off topic - I was watching a program from Macedonia earlier (some cooking show I think with a nice looking lady as the host) with Macedonian motorcycle club members who were affiliated with some groups from Russia, which is where this particular motorcycle movement commenced, quite interesting. I am all for relations on the social and cultural level, even on some other levels so long as we are respected as humans.

[Big Bad Sven]

I don't know why some Macedonians and others from the Balkan states get excited about the Russians, when they have done nothing other than recognise the name of our country. Some people may think we need to be thankful for this - Yes, thank you for acknowledging me as a human being.

Whether its the yanks or the Russians or the Europeans, it doesn't matter. They will only push for their interests only, and macedonia will only get the crumbs, if that.

For all of those pro russian macedonians out there, perhaps you should read the thoughts from a famous Russian politician:

Zhirinovsky said he's dreaming of a day "when Russian soldiers can wash their boots in the warm waters of the Indian Ocean and switch to year-round summer uniforms",[23] following the Russia's conquest of Afghanistan, Iran and Turkey and occupation of the Persian Gulf and the Mediterranean.[19] He also declared that Bulgaria should annex the Republic of Macedonia, and said that Romania is an artificial state supposedly created by Italian Gypsies who seized territory from Russia, Bulgaria and Hungary.[14]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Zhirinovsky

[Komita]

Komita, do you think Russia fought against the Ottomans for expansion in land and influence or to liberate their brother 'kauri'?

Relating specifically to Macedonia and the Macedonians, our ancestral land and people, can you please explain to me what they (Russians) did during Ottoman times to ensure that we aren't left with nothing but mules and mosques?

----------
Off topic - I was watching a program from Macedonia earlier (some cooking show I think with a nice looking lady as the host) with Macedonian motorcycle club members who were affiliated with some groups from Russia, which is where this particular motorcycle movement commenced, quite interesting. I am all for relations on the social and cultural level, even on some other levels so long as we are respected as humans.

The russian tsars if you read in their memoirs and in russian history saw it as their obligation as the successor of the Byzantine Empire to be the protector of the christians in the Balkans.
Macedonia and it's people didnt have a state at that time that enabled the help or development your talking about.

[Komita]

What about the Romanians, "greeks", bulgarian slavs and your precious serbs that all battled and died in the balkan wars? And most importantly what about the macedonian revolutionaries who died valiantly in the Illenden uprising? From memory no one came to their rescue when they asked for help and battled alone.....

We must also thank the Russians for supporting San Stefano Bulgaria and the Bulgarisation of Macedonia and the Macedonians.

We must also support them for their support of the serbs in the serbinization of Vardar macedonia in the first yugoslavia, remember thats why there where so many russians and belorussians in vardar macedonia at that time, they came as colonists to help increase the serbinization process.

And finally we should thank the russians for all of their support of the macedonian orthodox church, one of the most important churches in all of the orthodox world.

Politics is a bitch im afraid.

I've told you numerous time to stop quoting and replying to my posts.
Nothing you write is serious but you have some complexes and frustration that you take out on other slavic nations and the orthodox faith as the ones that are most responsible for the macedonian peoples current situation and our failures in history.
You say the same thing over and over again, it's getting boring.

[Komita]

Whether its the yanks or the Russians or the Europeans, it doesn't matter. They will only push for their interests only, and macedonia will only get the crumbs, if that.

For all of those pro russian macedonians out there, perhaps you should read the thoughts from a famous Russian politician:

Zhirinovsky said he's dreaming of a day "when Russian soldiers can wash their boots in the warm waters of the Indian Ocean and switch to year-round summer uniforms",[23] following the Russia's conquest of Afghanistan, Iran and Turkey and occupation of the Persian Gulf and the Mediterranean.[19] He also declared that Bulgaria should annex the Republic of Macedonia, and said that Romania is an artificial state supposedly created by Italian Gypsies who seized territory from Russia, Bulgaria and Hungary.[14]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Zhirinovsky

hahaha.. If you take that jewish clown Zhirinovsky serious I feel sorry for you.
Your frustrated about everything and want to blame others because nothing cant certainly be our own fault.

[fyrOM]

Komita me thinks though protests too much. Seriously there is no love lost between the Russians and Macedonians. There actions have been only to what they can gain. According to them kiril and metodia are two Greek priests who came to spread religion and the new alphabet. They have supported Serbia and Bulgaria at our expense. Just because they are Slav does not mean there is this great brotherhood out there.
The Russians fought the ottomans in support of Armenia if Armenia would become under Russia.

I think you are maybe thinking of how it might be better if the Slavs supported each other. The Greek state was created down south. Had the Slavs worked together they could have pushed the ottomans out of Macedonia including the Greek part. The west would seriously had to think if keeping the southern part of Greece was good enough or should they get into a fight with this massive collective over Macedonia. You know what happened in history then there is no need to say more.

[fyrOM]

typo spell checker though should be thou

[Big Bad Sven]

hahaha.. If you take that jewish clown Zhirinovsky serious I feel sorry for you.
Your frustrated about everything and want to blame others because nothing cant certainly be our own fault.

But in the 90's Zhirinovsky was loved by many serbs and russians, and seen as a hard man. They put him up there with other drunken loud mouth fools like Arkan and Sejsel.

Bosnian Serbs Hail Russian Nationalist
Russian ultranationalist Vladimir Zhirinovsky brought his nationalist campaign to Serb-controlled Bosnia today, telling crowds of brandy-chugging, gun-toting Serbs that a NATO bomb dropped on Serb positions here would effectively mean a bomb dropped on Russia.

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1P2-873768.html

Zhirinovsky Vows To Oust Yeltsin, Help Serbs .

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1129&dat=19940201&id=VIQNAAAAIBAJ&sjid=Nm8DAAAAIBAJ&pg=4939,212918

Zhirinovsky: Hands Off Serbs .

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1955&dat=19940131&id=cYIuAAAAIBAJ&sjid=TKEFAAAAIBAJ&pg=3311,7935255

[Big Bad Sven]

I've told you numerous time to stop quoting and replying to my posts.
Nothing you write is serious but you have some complexes and frustration that you take out on other slavic nations and the orthodox faith as the ones that are most responsible for the macedonian peoples current situation and our failures in history.
You say the same thing over and over again, it's getting boring.

Sorry champ i will respond and quote who ever i want. When will you finally start responding to some of my questions properly like a man?

Let me get this strait, i blame the "greeks" and the GOC for a huge majority all of macedonia's problems today. Hardly the entire slavs or the Orthodox religion. The Albanians, serbs and bulgarian slavs are just as bad, but the "greeks" have taken their anti-macedonian stance to a whole new level.

I dont hate the Russians, in fact i have a great deal of respect for them, much more then the Yanks or the Chinese. I think its great we have such good ties with them, and they should keep on improving. But i dont like it when we view them as our "saviors" or to jump completely in bed with them. Putting our eggs in the one basket would be a huge mistake - we did the same with the yanks and look at them as saviors and protectors and look where it got us?
We need to be smart about this, we need to use the "great powers" to our advantage, just like Grease is using both Russia,EU, and NATO - not be pawn or lackeys to them.

Having a foreign military base in macedonia would be a huge mistake, and cost out sovereignty. Whether its a turk, russian, US, bulgarian base.

But just to play devils advocate on Russian help, we can use examples of Russians stealing the Romanian treasure or Moldova (rightfully or wrongly for moldova) after WW1 from Romania as a "fee" for liberating Romania, a fellow orthodox country........

I view the Russians as the same as the US and the Chinese. They are all trying to create mini-empires and dont care about any one except for themselves. Ironically all three have nearly killed of all of their indeginous peoples due to expansion.
The idea of pan-slavisim was created by the russians so that they can get a huge influence in eastern europe and the Balkans. The only people who really believed in Pan-Slavisism where the Czechs and the Slovaks.


EDIT: And i forgot to say Komita, im very harsh on our bastard neighbors and do blame them for a lot of our problems, but as you can see from a few of my posts, im just as hard on criticizing Macedonians as well.

[Big Bad Sven]

Anyway this is a serbian wet dream.

Russia has given up on the balkans, because the balkans have given up on Russia. Same as eastern Europe. The serbs had the chance to vote in a pro Russian government who was talking about a increased Russian presence, but the "tough" and "hard" serbs voted in some one who is pro EU and US.

Russia is now concentrating on South America, where it will hurt the yanks the most.

Chávez says yes to Russian base

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/mar/16/chavez-russia-venezuela-nuclear-base

A new Cuban missile crisis? Russia eyes bomber bases in Latin America

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Global-News/2009/0315/a-new-cuban-missile-crisis-russia-eyes-bomber-bases-in-latin-america

Russia in Latin America: Geopolitical Games in the US's Neighborhood

http://www.ifri.org/files/Russie/ifri_Blank_Russia_and_LatinAmerica_ENG_April_09.pdf

[Serdarot]

i dont suspect that the Rusians have big number of supporters in Servia, but i dont understand those Serves, why?

The Rusians let them down each time they promised them help... and if they make base, they will make it becouse of THEIR interest, not becouse of some love toward the Servia.

I guess many of us need much more education about the Rusain Imperialistic policy, and the "games" they played with the Nations on the Balkans, and how many of our ancestors paid with their lifes those Games...

If it wasnt for Russia christians in the Balkans would most probably still live like "kauri" under ottoman empire and owning nothing but a mule and the only development would be mosques.

i think you watched some wrong movies, dude

i can explain you a lot about the Otoman Empire and why the Macedonians were very important part of that Empire.

but i think you dont want any explanation. you have finished movie in your head, and you dont want to realise some facts.

one of the facts, is that if Rusia was our friend, they would wipe out any big-bulgaria dreams of the bulgars.

why we have the Church Problem? are we less Christians than the Serbs and the "Greeks"?

the super-power Rusia does not have capacity to calm down 2-3 crazy (sold for cash to the "greeks") priests?

i guess you are an Aerosmith fan

Dream On, dude, Dream On...

@ Big Bad Sven: bingo

Putin is not so stupid, he will make bases in South America, also for their own interest, not because of some love for Hugo Chavez or some other human...

the "greeks" have taken their anti-macedonian stance to a whole new level.

...

Having a foreign military base in macedonia would be a huge mistake, and cost out sovereignty. Whether its a turk, russian, US, bulgarian base.

first part - the greek government got itself traped. they spread the anti-makedonism on such lvl, that abanding that policy, will result with civil war in "greece"
second part - we were occupied already since 1991, at least 2 times.

for letting the American (and other scum) military troops training the albanian terrorist in Macedonia before the "Kosovo War", if noone else, i will personaly make charges against some of the responcible for that.

like Branko Crvenkovski and his gang...

if they live enough long, of course

[Prolet]

Macedonia to initiate duty-free trade with Russia

This is wonderful news, especially for the energy sector.

When will the Russians start the Gasovod project?

Wednesday, 24 March 2010

Macedonia will initiate liberalization of commodities exchange with Russia through signing of a free trade agreement, announced Finance Minister Zoran Stavreski at Wednesday's business meeting of the Macedonia-Russia Chamber of Commerce titled "Russian Federation - Permanent Challenge for Macedonian Economy", held on occasion of its 5th anniversary.

FinMin Stavreski stressed duty-free commerce was in the interest of both countries, hoping that Russia would support the initiative.

"The Chamber aims at establishing contacts with Russian companies for intensive penetration at the country's market. It represents an enormous potential for Macedonian export, primarily in the sectors of agriculture and construction. Therefore, it is significant to initiate the exemption of Macedonian commodities from customs duties, an issue we will put forward at the next session of the Mixed Macedonian-Russian Commission", stressed Stavreski.

According to him, there are expectations for intensification of cooperation in the opposite direction, mainly in energy, mining and other sectors.

"Russian companies have a competitive advantage and can find interest in Macedonia. In the mid-term, this should result in increase of export in Russia, reduction of deficit and enlargement of total commodities' exchange", assessed Stavreski.

He announced conditions for return of Russia's clearing debt to Macedonia, amounting to US$ 60 million, would mature by May.

"The Macedonian side is ready for signing of the agreement on regulating the clearing debt. Due to changes of the Russian chairperson, the meeting may be delayed for 2-3 weeks, but we expect the issue to be closed by the end of May", added Stavreski.

Russian ambassador to Macedonia Vladimir Solotsinsky told Macedonian companies to look for partners beyond Moscow and the surrounding region.

According to him, the most important challenges in bilateral commercial relations remained the enormous commercial imbalance, which created deficit in Macedonia's economy, as well as diversification of Russian export to Macedonia.

Chamber chairman Gjorgji Dika referred to its significance in overcoming a number of problems, among which the loss of identity of Macedonian products.

"Macedonian products often lose identity in the database of Russian institutions, because of the use of mediators from Serbia and Bulgaria", said Dika.

http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/13303/45/

[osiris]

great news prolet did you have anything to do with this sensible initiative.

[Prolet]

Osiris, Ofcourse not

Zoran Stavreski seems to be in the thick of it.