I am not sure what to think
International Court of Justice - Macedonia and Greece
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Originally posted by Jankovska View PostI am not sure what to think
A part of me still thinks this is the wrong path to take, even if the decision is favourable.
I believe our only legitimate exit from this madness is to name the Greek attack for what it is - and defend our right to exist.
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Spartan, Macedonia has nothing to lose. Seriously and literally.Risto the Great
MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
"Holding my breath for the revolution."
Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com
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At first I was happy that it finally happened.
but now after reflecting for a while, i am not sure if the court is able to do a decision. After all they are no linguists, no archeologists and no historians. they are lawyers and judges. they will judge according international law, which i am not sure what at the end it would mean for us.Last edited by King Makedon; 07-27-2009, 08:16 PM.]The world belongs to Macedonia. Macedonia does not belong to the world, especially not to Macedonia's neighbouring countries.[/SIZE]
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Nobody is questioning archeology, history or language in this court. They have nothing to do with this legal matter. But the court will demonstrate the pettyness of the Greek State no matter who wins for whatever reason. Well worth a front seat in my opinion.Risto the Great
MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
"Holding my breath for the revolution."
Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com
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It is not enforceable; it would only be used as an argument to withdraw.
The Macedonian Government is afraid to withdraw from the interim accord on the basis of their sovereign rights as a nation. So, instead they are trying to play politics from a lesser position.
Their plans would be in this order:
- Court rules in favor of Macedonia and says Greece must abide by terms of Interim Accord.
- Greece must now accept Macedonia as a member of NATO under the interim name and abide by Interim Accord.
Then they have their decision tree:
Option 1: Greece rejects the court ruling, which is not enforceable and continues to block Macedonia's NATO membership. This gives the Macedonian Government the legal weight it is looking for in order to withdraw from what is then considered a useless interim accord. Name goes to UN. Now, there is no interim accord and no reason why Macedonia cannot join NATO (since there is no open issue in the UN) - issue becomes purely bilateral, in order for Macedonia to join NATO.
Option 2: Greece abides by court ruling which says that both nations must abide by interim accord, and accepts Macedonia in NATO. Macedonia becomes a full-fledged member. Macedonia still in UN under interim name. Now that the NATO carrot is out of the way, the EU one begins and the whole process is repeated again;Greece blocks Macedonia, Macedonia kept out of EU, pressured to change name, legal argument says Greece broke interim accord, Macedonia joins EU).
There's another option which nobody is placing much weight on and that is for Greece to lose the ruling and accept it, but use its diplomatic weight (i.e. as it has with large military purchases at crucial moments to secure support) in some nations which do hold real power/weight and get them to block Macedonia. Though Greece doesn't really have the diplomatic power for this, if they did, it might end up being a good thing for Macedonia in terms of realising that they should look elsewhere and not put all their eggs in the one EU/NATO basket.
Personally, I think all three of the above options are seriously flawed.
Macedonia must end negotiations now, not wait until the international community has been given time to condition the Macedonian people into thinking a name change is worthy of EU/NATO membership.
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Originally posted by Rogi View PostIt is not enforceable; it would only be used as an argument to withdraw.
The Macedonian Government is afraid to withdraw from the interim accord on the basis of their sovereign rights as a nation. So, instead they are trying to play politics from a lesser position.
Their plans would be in this order:
- Court rules in favor of Macedonia and says Greece must abide by terms of Interim Accord.
- Greece must now accept Macedonia as a member of NATO under the interim name and abide by Interim Accord.
Then they have their decision tree:
Option 1: Greece rejects the court ruling, which is not enforceable and continues to block Macedonia's NATO membership. This gives the Macedonian Government the legal weight it is looking for in order to withdraw from what is then considered a useless interim accord. Name goes to UN. Now, there is no interim accord and no reason why Macedonia cannot join NATO (since there is no open issue in the UN) - issue becomes purely bilateral, in order for Macedonia to join NATO.
Option 2: Greece abides by court ruling which says that both nations must abide by interim accord, and accepts Macedonia in NATO. Macedonia becomes a full-fledged member. Macedonia still in UN under interim name. Now that the NATO carrot is out of the way, the EU one begins and the whole process is repeated again;Greece blocks Macedonia, Macedonia kept out of EU, pressured to change name, legal argument says Greece broke interim accord, Macedonia joins EU).
There's another option which nobody is placing much weight on and that is for Greece to lose the ruling and accept it, but use its diplomatic weight (i.e. as it has with large military purchases at crucial moments to secure support) in some nations which do hold real power/weight and get them to block Macedonia. Though Greece doesn't really have the diplomatic power for this, if they did, it might end up being a good thing for Macedonia in terms of realising that they should look elsewhere and not put all their eggs in the one EU/NATO basket.
Personally, I think all three of the above options are seriously flawed.
Macedonia must end negotiations now, not wait until the international community has been given time to condition the Macedonian people into thinking a name change is worthy of EU/NATO membership.
Rogi,
What will happen if the court rules in favour of the "greeks" that we broke the Interim Agreement first?
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Originally posted by NikodimMKD View PostRogi,
What will happen if the court rules in favour of the "greeks" that we broke the Interim Agreement first?
All good options in my opinion. But none of them happening.
So why do you play the apologist Niko?Risto the Great
MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
"Holding my breath for the revolution."
Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com
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Originally posted by Risto the Great View PostYou will have to give examples of how it is possible that this has happened. If it has happened we will have evidence that Macedonia has changed its constitution to reclaim Macedonian territories in Greece, that the UN is calling it Macedonia etc.
All good options in my opinion. But none of them happening.
So why do you play the apologist Niko?
From a tactical point of view I don't think this was a good move and like others have said, has the potential of backfiring on us.
Macedonia should concentrate on other things and not greece. We have been playing political roulette for too long. There are other more important matters at hand.
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Bu the leader of Greece said there was a VETO.
And the NATO General Secretary will have to prove his assertions in court as to whether a VETO occurred. Bearing in mind he was the same person saying Macedonia was completely eligible.
You are really going to have to back your statements up Niko.Risto the Great
MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
"Holding my breath for the revolution."
Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com
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