International Court of Justice - Macedonia and Greece

[DirtyCodingHabitz]

Watching right now.

[fyrOM]

It would have been good to have more for-warning, but anyway it's really interesting, thanks.

The 'English' audio sounds like British MEP Nigel Farage - top guy.

[GStojanov]

It is very, very, very, VERY, interesting and amusing.

The second speaker for the Macedonian side compared one of the Greek Arguments with the proverbial dead bird of Monty Payton.

[fyrOM]

fyrOM, first you claimed "things" would unfold by the end of the year, now its 2-3 years. Can we expect another 20? Maybe we need another 40 years to bring about the supposed "grand strategy" that Gligorov initiated 20 years ago?

Please show where I have said by the end of this year other than in reference to as stated in the news article that the ICJ court case SHOULD have a result by the end of the year - remember this is the article saying it.

In all other references I have said by the end of 2012 (and commonly added, "nothing to do with 2012 'end of days'") or sometime during or end of 2013 - very consistent with my current statement.

Your inability to read clearly and comprehend what you have read is already famous.

[fyrOM]

I suppose in some regard I will agree with Osiris here in that I think the forum is, and I say this very loosely, beginning to focus more on criticising the individual and their character, rather than their argument.

You THINK!

The demi-gods on this site wage insults and bully-boy tactics as a means to somehow prove the correctness of their views rather than engage the point put forward with arguments of merit. They fail to see that by behaving as such they are neither winning the debate nor the insult slinging.

They are so self convinced of their omnipotence (read in Macedonian po staro Sami Bendisani) they cant even see how stupidly simple (child-like really) their insults are, even when it is pointed out to them, allowing any counter to their insults to wash over them like 'water of a ducks back' relying on shear VOLUME of insults rather than QUALITY as the measure by which they measure their success!!! - so long as the pack can go away thinking, "you barked at him longer, batka", they go away self satisfied - Yes, they probably do self satisfy themselves as a reward later - only is it a group thing like their insults is not known.

The hand-full of demi-gods are so self convinced (there's that saying again Sami Bendisani) of their correctness they only need and tolerate a cheer-squad. It is NOT possible to discuss/debate with someone who refuses to engage questions put forward to them (no matter how simple they are) instead relying on re-iterating their dogma followed by a torrent of insults as if somehow it proves their point is correct. This attitude leads to Only one thing - the questioning of the validity and relevance of the site, and as Osiris already said, some of the people he had recommended the site to concluded this for themselves.

The demi-gods work themselves up into a lather they forget that although the conversation/debate might be between a hand full of people it does Not mean it is a small closed environment affording them the anonymity to behave like idiots with impunity but instead that the illusion of being in a closed environment is like being inside a bottle with EVERYONE in the world looking in!!!

In a nutshell, they need to stop treating the site like a session down at the pub but more like the office end of year party with your boss and managers there - slightly casual with beer in hand but still professional. Alas I think most of the demi-gods are self employed and long time used to the 'ANYTHING they say goes'.

Sometimes people self prove the extent of their own stupidity better than anyone could hope to do from the outside!!!

Well done guys!!!

[fyrOM]

Do you think someone would have recoded this and make it available on say YouTube oe elsewhere?

[Risto the Great]

Well done guys!!!

Thanks.
Imagine if the potential to inspire hundreds of thousands of Macedonians was left up to you.

Now is not the right time.
FYROM is ok, as long as we get in to these organisations.
They would smash us to oblivion if we start calling ourselves Macedonian now.
We will never sell ajvar to Slovenia again.

Not well done fyrOM, not at all.

[fyrOM]

Thanks.
Imagine if the potential to inspire hundreds of thousands of Macedonians was left up to you.


Not well done fyrOM, not at all.

More of YOUR LIES!! RtG???
Taking negative snippets from different posts
and TRYING to make them look like they are nine.
PATHETIC!!!!

YOU CONTINUE TO PROVE MY POINT!!! WITHOUT having to do anything myself!!

Budalite ke si pokazuvaat rogojte

[Risto the Great]

What made you think I was talking about you fyrOM? I was merely talking about the typical slave minded apologist stance.
But anyway, which ones do you disagree with fyrOM?
It should be simple.
Give us yes or no answers because your wankery is tiresome.

[Risto the Great]

http://www.eurasiareview.com/world-court-starts-hearing-on-macedonia-lawsuit-2-21032011/

Macedonian Foreign Minister Antonio Milososki told the court that the suit was a straightforward case of Greece breaking the terms of a 1995 agreement by blocking Skopje’s accession to NATO.

“In the case before you we do not seek resolution of the name difference either directly or indirectly. This is and remains the object of the mediation process under the auspices of the UN,” Milososki said.

“What do we seek in bringing this case? This case has been brought to ensure that the respondent [Greece] upholds one of its key obligations under the 1995 Interim Accord. Nothing more and nothing less,” Milososki told the court in an opening speech.

Macedonia sued Greece at the ICJ in 2009 for blocking its accession to NATO in 2008 over Macedonia’s unresolved name dispute.

Macedonia argues that the blockade violates the 1995 UN-brokered Interim Accord, which regulates relations between the two states.

The accord obliges Greece not to block the accession of its neighbour to international organisations.

British barrister and law professor Phillipe Sands, speaking for the Macedonian team, told the court that its judgement in the case would have a major impact on Macedonia’s internal stability.

“Whilst the issue in the case may be discreet, the stakes are high. The case is about holding the respondent to its obligations under a bilateral treaty so that it is not allowed to object to the applicant [Macedonia] entry into NATO and other international organisations. The case is of evident significance for the country’s internal stability and for the regional well-being,” he said in court on Monday.

Professor Sean Murphy also spoke for the Macedonian side on Monday, offering background on Greece’s “aggressive” opposition to Macedonia’s membership in NATO.

“From 1995 to 2007 Macedonia undertook all the necesary steps on the road to admission to NATO. By 2007 it appeared likely that three countries would be invited to join NATO at the Bucharest Summit in 2008,” he explained.

“However in 2007 and 2008, Greece engaged in a vigorous and systematic campaign in opposition to Macedonia’s membership in NATO,” Murphy continued.

He told the court that “this campaign was not subtle or discrete, it was a battle waged openly and aggresively”.

Macedonia is to elaborate its arguments before the court on Monday and Tuesday, and Greece on Thursday and Friday.

The 15 ICJ judges, from all around the world, are expected to decide on this case within the next six months, or by the end of the year at the latest.

On March 28, Macedonia will respond to Greece’s defence and the hearing will conclude on March 30 with the final word from the Greek side.

“Macedonia will probably use statements from former Greek officials to back its case,” Vasko Popetrevski, editor of the daily Dnevnik newspaper, told Balkan Insight.

He said that statements of former Greek prime minister Kostas Karamanlis and former foreign minister Dora Bakoyannis from before the 2008 NATO summit in Bucharest will show they did not allow Macedonia to join NATO because of Greek objections to the country’s name.

“This may be taken by the ICJ as proof of the official stand of the country,” Popetrevski said.

Greece argues that Macedonia broke the 1995 accord by taking a hard line over the “name” issue and by “stealing” its history by renaming airports, highways and sport arenas after Ancient Greek heroes.

“Greece will try to prove that it is not exercising any veto against Macedonia joining NATO,” the Greek journalist and publicist Takis Michas told Balkan Insight.

He notes that the joint NATO communiqué issued after the 2008 Bucharest summit stated that the two countries had failed to reach a decision on Macedonia’s accession and did not mention a Greek veto.

Observers say they are unsure whether an ICJ verdict in favour of Macedonia would be applicable in reality. Macedonia wants Greece to withdraws its objections to Macedonia’s NATO membership so that the country can join.

Established in 1945, the ICJ’s main function is to settle legal disputes between states. ICJ rulings are final and cannot be appealed. However, the court has no instruments to make countries comply with rulings.

Macedonian diplomats close to the ICJ case say the outcome to the lawsuit should not be linked to the ongoing “name” talks between Macedonia and Greece, held under UN auspices.

The dispute is almost two decades’ old. Greece insists that the name “Republic of Macedonia” implies a territorial claim to the Greek northern province, also called Macedonia.

In late 2009, Greek objections to Macedonia’s name prevented the EU from extending a start date for Macedonia’s accession talks with the block, despite a previous recommendation from the European Commission for negotiations to start.

The 2 points highlighted in red should answer the slave-minded apologists who think Macedonia is on the correct path.

They are going to a court with no jurisdiction to NOT defend Macedonia's name. Clever little Macedonians. Next we will hear that it was a game of chess by the clever Macedonians and that they went to that court BECAUSE it has no jurisdiction. And .... that it was SDSM's fault anyway.

Tiresome.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Ej tikvo, you said what said, and from what can be seen you stand by it. For you it's OK for people to call you fyrOM because you are scared to be Macedonian.

The demi-gods on this site wage insults and bully-boy tactics as a means to somehow prove the correctness of their views rather than engage the point put forward with arguments of merit. They fail to see that by behaving as such they are neither winning the debate nor the insult slinging.

Stop lying. People have been cordial with you, they have tried to guide you, take baby steps with you, in fact, you have been shown more patience than most, despite your periodical return to stupidity, which has now become a permanent return.

Don't start claiming bad treatment now just because you have the memory of a goldfish. People are quite simply fed up with explaining things to you, not because you don't understand what is being said, but because you hold the views of a submissive traitor that has already made up his mind.

If you were looking for others who think 'fyrOM' is OK and acceptable, then you came to the wrong place. I'm sure you will find some Greek forums where they can accomodate your brand of 'Macedonians'.

[Vangelovski]

fyrOM,

You originally claimed some sort of result by the end of this year, attempting to legitimise the ICJ case and paint it as a useful initiative. Now you are claiming some sort of result by the end of 2012-2013. What do you expect to happen by then? The total deconstruction of the Macedonian state?

You have failed to provide any evidence of a supposed "grand strategy". Rather, you have consistently pushed an anti-Macedonian agenda, attempting to spread fear based on illogical and baseless assumptions for the sole purpose of keeping Macedonians enslaved. You have claimed that certain fundamental rights do not exist by idiotically claiming that some form of "relative rights" exist, which you have not been able to explain any further.

Your ideological mentors (Gligorov, Crvenkovski, Frckovski, Maleski etc) would be proud of the lapdog they have at their service, promoting anti-Macedonian views for the benefit of their personal career ambitions. Too bad you came along a decade late. Perhaps Gruevski and co will have some use for you.

[Vangelovski]

The only thing that this ridiculous ICJ case demonstrates is the Macedonian Government's political immaturity and inexperience. Anyone with even a basic understanding of international relations would realise that there is so such thing as a "chess game" when it comes to fundamental national interests. Those who purport to be some sort of "experts" claiming to hold some special knowledge of some "chess game" or "grand strategy" are nothing more than uninformed bafoons who have read uninformed conspiracy books or completed some idiotic first year 'politics 101' class with some leftiest bong-smoking hippy and failed to think any further.

[fyrOM]

What made you think I was talking about you fyrOM? I was merely talking about the typical slave minded apologist stance.

Your NOT TOTALLY stupid RtG, and you know VERY well the way you wrote it could VERY EASILY lead the reader to think they are my statements! Your Not going to play dumb now like you didn't know, are you???

More of your/this site typical lies and smear-campaign to vilify ANYONE who does Not Absolutely agree with you.

Your attempts at character assassination in a SLY underhanded manor are pathetic and typify you and the demi-gods.

When I want to say something I come out and say it and NOT with PATHETIC SNEAKY TRICKERY.

We KNOW Greeks lie WITHOUT ANY shame.
We NOW know RtG lies in sneaky ways WITHOUT shame.
mmm....You wouldn't happen to have any Greek in you, would you???

Why don't you ever argue the points/answer the questions? instead always trying to shift the focus or hurl abuse - maybe because you have no answers???

[Vangelovski]

fyrOM,

If anyone wanted to assasinate your "character" it could be much more quite easily. Rather, its your slave ideology that is being challenged here and your rabid defence of it is quite telling.