International Court of Justice - Macedonia and Greece

[Vangelovski]

fyrOM,

On what do you base all these idiotic assumptions? Your 'gut feeling'?

[Risto the Great]

fyrOM.

boo

[Volk]

Volk, what hard questions? You make the fantastical claim that Macedonia will be invaded for exercising its national sovereignty (i.e., refusing to negotiate its name). This has never even been contemplated in the history of the world. The burdon of proof that such an invasion would happen is on YOU, seeing as YOU are the one that is claiming something out of the ordinary.

Again, all you can do is twist words and opinions around when your argument has no substance, what questions? really?

- are you trying to convince me and the readers here that if Macedonia withdrew from the name talks & declared the 'framework agreement' null and void simultaneously, there would not be any consequences to Macedonia besides the utopia your trying to imply?

- Do mean to tell me the international community aka our overlords, would accept such a move, does Macedonia have the military industry (we do not even manufacture our own bullets anymore) to deal with a conflict if there was a arms embargo imposed (like in 2001)?

- Or is analyzing possible scenarios (that have all happened before) 'scaremongering' and unrealistic?, whilst your completely blind and non existent outlook is the light?

- Facts:
- Majority of the population supports EU and NATO membership
- The albanians are waiting for the right time to break away
- EU and NATO ( which now surrounds Macedonia ) fully backs greece against us.

Based on these facts outlined we need an approach (that achieves our goals) that covers all threats, because otherwise your just pissing in the wind without as little as a thought.

again and again and again...

I am all open to debate, and I pray for tactics that allows us to achieve our goals... any fool can say this and that need to be done without going into how to deal with the aftermath.

[Volk]

Volk, let's face it, your ideology either differs little from that of Gruevski and co., or you're here arguing not for what you believe in, but instead because of prior disagreements with certain individuals. Get over it already, and while you're at it, provide at least one answer that isn't riddled with ambiguity.

Here, I will help you start.

1 - Macedonian declares the Interim Accord and Framework Agreement void.

2 - (Enter bombing campaign of Skopje, Bitola, Prilep, Ohrid and Strumica)

3 - ???

4 - ???

Was there a step in between 1 and 2 that needs to be entered?

How about you fill in the blanks of what you think will happen, or have you failed to look that far ahead?

[fyrOM]

WHAT SCENARIOS??

Give the readers here a break-down of the series of events which will 'unfold' according to your scare-mongering predictions. When you're ready to answer this question which has been put to you about a billion times in the last 12 months, let me know.

And how many times have I asked for anyone to answer "what next" with no real reply? I find it amazing that all the 'pro'-sayers stop at 'just make both agreements void' and then say, "don't you want your sovereignty". It's not a 'do we or don't we' question but how to go about it.

Why don't you describe the utopia you expect after they have been made void and explain why you see this as the likely result?

Tell us where the money is coming from to replace the EU subsidies and what the tobacco, farming and livestock industries will do - will it be like farmers selling their cows (they previously bought up) on the supper cheap to the Albanians after the Swedish milk company went bust - a lovely transferal of wealth. Or will we sell cheap to Slovenia so long as we don't put a label on items?

Please describe the utopia in detail - I might want to go back there to live and maybe you and I can catch the same flight.

I suspect the lack of answers have more to do with 'damn the consequences, just get the name'.

How long do you thing the Albanians will wait around before declaring they want to break away from your utopia?

Please describe your utopia - I am really interested.

[Imagination]

Soldier of Macedon,
Its just ridiculous for a person not living in Macedonia to give advice on its diplomacy, millitary and etc. Even if there is an unknown scenario after Macedonia breaks all those treaties, you won't be affected by it. While the Macedonian citizens will. Even risking the welfare of others while you're safe makes you more like a selfish person, no matter the cause. The scenario will most probably not be millitary, it will be economic which is almost as bad. And to repeat : you'll not be affected from it. So don't talk with such authority on these matters. You have marvellous posts on history and culture, keep your authority there ?

[fyrOM]

You have marvellous posts on history and culture...

The site's forums - Absolutely fantastic and always an excellent read.

[Risto the Great]

fyrOM and Volk, your stance clearly supports the actions of the Macedonian politicians over the last 20 years. That there in fact has been no choice and that the right decisions were made at the toughest of times. If you don't realise it, then you should! You are supporting the conditions that created the current status quo and it is all driven by fear. This fear has crippled your ability to see reason.

If you say doing anything extreme like asserting our sovereign rights will cause problems. You might as well tie the Ventilator around your neck and use it as a frtoma.

Remember, you are 100% for FYROM, Framework Agreement and Interim Agreement. Any logical review of your fears clearly indicates your feelings about the necessity of these capitulations.

Oh, and remember, the country is Macedonia. Asserting that shouldn't create a war. But if it does and Macedonia loses .... it will be a glorious defeat that will fuel the passions of future generations of Macedonians. Much better than the pitiful defeat that is happening daily right now. Your cancerous scare-mongering is anti-Macedonian and of no use to Macedonia.

[Risto the Great]

Soldier of Macedon,
Its just ridiculous for a person not living in Macedonia to give advice on its diplomacy, millitary and etc. Even if there is an unknown scenario after Macedonia breaks all those treaties, you won't be affected by it. While the Macedonian citizens will. Even risking the welfare of others while you're safe makes you more like a selfish person, no matter the cause. The scenario will most probably not be millitary, it will be economic which is almost as bad. And to repeat : you'll not be affected from it. So don't talk with such authority on these matters. You have marvellous posts on history and culture, keep your authority there ?

Imagination, you have no basis for even commenting. I expect you are lying about your ancestry and here for no reason other than personal amusement. The Macedonians in Macedonia who share similar motivations to us in the Diaspora have been sidelined because they are getting in the way of personal gains for the filthy corrupt politicians running the country. Stay out of it, you have no relevance.

[fyrOM]

OK RtG, I haven't got concrete stuff to show you now of the future, but watch the next 2 years - 1/4 of this year has already gone past - it's not a long wait.

But you (collectively) haven't defined your utopia and why you think so in detail.

[julie]

fyrOM and Volk, your stance clearly supports the actions of the Macedonian politicians over the last 20 years. That there in fact has been no choice and that the right decisions were made at the toughest of times. If you don't realise it, then you should! You are supporting the conditions that created the current status quo and it is all driven by fear. This fear has crippled your ability to see reason.

If you say doing anything extreme like asserting our sovereign rights will cause problems. You might as well tie the Ventilator around your neck and use it as a frtoma.

Remember, you are 100% for FYROM, Framework Agreement and Interim Agreement. Any logical review of your fears clearly indicates your feelings about the necessity of these capitulations.

Oh, and remember, the country is Macedonia. Asserting that shouldn't create a war. But if it does and Macedonia loses .... it will be a glorious defeat that will fuel the passions of future generations of Macedonians. Much better than the pitiful defeat that is happening daily right now. Your cancerous scare-mongering is anti-Macedonian and of no use to Macedonia.

\\

Its effective scare mongering and brainwashing, which has effectively flowed on from the politicians.

[Vangelovski]

Volk, what evidence do you have that Macedonia will be invaded if it declares the Interim Accord null and void?

[Vangelovski]

OK RtG, I haven't got concrete stuff to show you now of the future

No, you don't. That's because your literarly talking sh*t and making yourself look like a fool.

[Volk]

fyrOM and Volk, your stance clearly supports the actions of the Macedonian politicians over the last 20 years. That there in fact has been no choice and that the right decisions were made at the toughest of times. If you don't realise it, then you should! You are supporting the conditions that created the current status quo and it is all driven by fear. This fear has crippled your ability to see reason.

If you say doing anything extreme like asserting our sovereign rights will cause problems. You might as well tie the Ventilator around your neck and use it as a frtoma.

Remember, you are 100% for FYROM, Framework Agreement and Interim Agreement. Any logical review of your fears clearly indicates your feelings about the necessity of these capitulations.

Oh, and remember, the country is Macedonia. Asserting that shouldn't create a war. But if it does and Macedonia loses .... it will be a glorious defeat that will fuel the passions of future generations of Macedonians. Much better than the pitiful defeat that is happening daily right now. Your cancerous scare-mongering is anti-Macedonian and of no use to Macedonia.

I see your using Tom's tricks and telling me what I believe in without actually addressing my posts. Actually expected more from you RTG but there you go... At least point out to me where I have supported the capitulations of the past? Would really love to see it, and dont use another tactic from Tom, copy and paste words out of context please.

[Volk]

Volk, what evidence do you have that Macedonia will be invaded if it declares the Interim Accord null and void?

snakey snakey, I never said Macedonia would get invaded in such case...

your so called arguments, if they even exits are tiresome yet again...