International Court of Justice - Macedonia and Greece

[Volk]

SOM & Tom,

are you trying to convince me and the readers here that if Macedonia withdrew from the name talks & declared the 'framework agreement' null and void simultaneously, there would not be any consequences to Macedonia besides the utopia your trying to imply?

There are many scenarios that could arise, but the least likely one is the utopic Macedonian society you are dreaming of.

Do mean to tell me the international community aka our overlords, would accept such a move, does Macedonia have the military industry (we do not even manufacture our own bullets anymore) to deal with a conflict if there was a arms embargo imposed (like in 2001)?

Can we break the greek-albanian alliance (this is the two fronts), what will the bulgars do in such case...

Or is analyzing possible scenarios (that have all happened before) 'scaremongering' and unrealistic?, whilst your completely blind and non existent outlook is the light? Give me a fucking break and open your eyes.

Facts:
- Majority of the population supports EU and NATO membership
- The albanians are waiting for the right time to break away
- EU and NATO ( which now surrounds Macedonia ) fully backs greece against us.

Based on these facts outlined we need an approach (that achieves our goals) that covers all threats, because otherwise your just pissing in the wind without as little as a thought.

reply to my post if Tom.

Are you ruling a war out if the terms of the peace accord that halted the conflict is no longer accepted... ?

[Soldier of Macedon]

There are many scenarios that could arise, but the least likely one is the utopic Macedonian society you are dreaming of.

WHAT SCENARIOS??

Give the readers here a break-down of the series of events which will 'unfold' according to your scare-mongering predictions. When you're ready to answer this question which has been put to you about a billion times in the last 12 months, let me know.

[Volk]

WHAT SCENARIOS??

Give the readers here a break-down of the series of events which will 'unfold' according to your scare-mongering predictions. When you're ready to answer this question which has been put to you about a billion times in the last 12 months, let me know.

Since you are the one calling for simultaneous action against both 'accord' and 'agreement', perhaps you should outline what you have envisaged to occur as a consequence, if in fact you have looked that far ahead at all.

If you read my post, I have you enough to go by, but it seems you are picking up Tom's tactics and answering questions with questions.

In case you missed it:

SOM & Tom,

are you trying to convince me and the readers here that if Macedonia withdrew from the name talks & declared the 'framework agreement' null and void simultaneously, there would not be any consequences to Macedonia besides the utopia your trying to imply?

There are many scenarios that could arise, but the least likely one is the utopic Macedonian society you are dreaming of.

Do mean to tell me the international community aka our overlords, would accept such a move, does Macedonia have the military industry (we do not even manufacture our own bullets anymore) to deal with a conflict if there was a arms embargo imposed (like in 2001)?

Can we break the greek-albanian alliance (this is the two fronts), what will the bulgars do in such case...

Or is analyzing possible scenarios (that have all happened before) 'scaremongering' and unrealistic?, whilst your completely blind and non existent outlook is the light? Give me a fucking break and open your eyes.

Facts:
- Majority of the population supports EU and NATO membership
- The albanians are waiting for the right time to break away
- EU and NATO ( which now surrounds Macedonia ) fully backs greece against us.

Based on these facts outlined we need an approach (that achieves our goals) that covers all threats, because otherwise your just pissing in the wind without as little as a thought.

[Vangelovski]

reply to my post if Tom.

Are you ruling a war out if the terms of the peace accord that halted the conflict is no longer accepted... ?

Volk, you really don't understand the Framework Agreement and the situation on the ground do you?

The original question was the Interim Accord and the negotations, now you have moved to the Framework Agreement and the Albanians. I'm not sure which one of the two (or both?) you are predicting Armageddon.

Perhaps if you de-confused yourself, we could get to the bottom of what it is you are trying to "express".

[Volk]

Again, you dont seem to understand do you...? Dont initiate debate with me if you do not even know what your debating about... AGAIN... majko mila

[Soldier of Macedon]

Volk, let's face it, your ideology either differs little from that of Gruevski and co., or you're here arguing not for what you believe in, but instead because of prior disagreements with certain individuals. Get over it already, and while you're at it, provide at least one answer that isn't riddled with ambiguity.

Here, I will help you start.

1 - Macedonian declares the Interim Accord and Framework Agreement void.

2 - (Enter bombing campaign of Skopje, Bitola, Prilep, Ohrid and Strumica)

3 - ???

4 - ???

Was there a step in between 1 and 2 that needs to be entered?

[Vangelovski]

Again, you dont seem to understand do you...? Dont initiate debate with me if you do not even know what your debating about... AGAIN... majko mila

Volk,

Your theory that an international conspiracy to destroy Macedonia exists is popping up again...

[Risto the Great]

Your theory that an international conspiracy to destroy Macedonia exists is popping up again...

An interesting point.

I think many people think this. The reality is that nations see Macedonia as the wounded infant. It is fair game for the predators whilst it displays such weakness.

[Volk]

Macedonia should move to reclaim everything that is hers though well planned and outlined national strategy. This cannot be done in one swift move as both of you are suggesting, evidence of this is your inability to answer the hard questions that must be answered before taking such immediate, simultaneous moves.

[Vangelovski]

Volk, what hard questions? You make the fantastical claim that Macedonia will be invaded for exercising its national sovereignty (i.e., refusing to negotiate its name). This has never even been contemplated in the history of the world. The burdon of proof that such an invasion would happen is on YOU, seeing as YOU are the one that is claiming something out of the ordinary.

[lavce pelagonski]

I didnt know where to put this this is from a stupid grk website in the US. What racists

[url]http://usa.greekreporter.com/2011/03/15/un-negotiator-nimetz-sides-with-greece-on-macedonia-name-issue/[/url] 

UN Negotiator Nimetz Sides with Greece on Macedonia Name Issue
The special UN negotiator on the issue of the name of the Scopia state, Mathew Nimetz, during his meeting on Friday in New York with the Panmacedonian agency, acknowledged that the Scopians are Slavs and that “they made a huge mistake by trying to archaize their community and use the ancients Greek Macedonian symbols”. In addition, Mr. Nimetz when he was asked about the issue of the Macedonian identity and the fact that the adjective “Macedonian” shouldn’t be used on their army, their language and their people, he answered that, indeed, maybe it’s a better idea to use the clause “the people of such and such Democracy”, the army of such and such Democracy” and the “language of such and such Democracy” and not the adjective “Macedonian”, etc.”, he added.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Seems like a load of garbage to me, especially that apparent 'such and such' suggestion, it sounds like it was conjured by some iliterate donkey.

[Risto the Great]

"maybe it’s a better idea to use the clause “the people of such and such Democracy”, the army of such and such Democracy” and the “language of such and such Democracy” and not the adjective “Macedonian”, etc.”, he added".

I think there would be thousands of Macedonians who might call that a win because it is deemed to be better than FYROM.

[julie]

I would love the opportunity of meeting Nimitz, and ask him how he was able to evade the gas chamber

[fyrOM]

You and your buddy fyrOM sound like you just completed political economics for dummies 101. What "scenarios"?

Hey, at least completed reading a book on it - better than sticking your head in the sand. You keep saying 'stop the name negotiations' and when asked 'what next?' you pretend it will be ALL business as usual. If you truly believe that and nothing needs to be done then you have been spending too much time tanning your ass with your head in a hole looking for worms.

ultra-ridiculous Gligorov-stlye scaremongering about an international conspiracy to destory Macedonia the minute it exercises its sovereign rights.

And you DON'T think there is??? How many friends do you think Macedonia has - lets see, let me Google how many countries there are in the world.hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha - plop - I think I laughed too hard.

1. Internally the Albanians have attacked us once, why not again especial with NO hope of EU entry - don't you know they want 'to be free'.

2. The USA is all about supporting 'freedom' all over the world - even in Northern Africa, Middle East ans Asia - and already has helpped the Albanians once before or have you forgotten 2001?

3. Greece couldn't give a rats and would love to close the border and Macedonia's main export rout.

4. Bulgaria is all about 'good neighborly' stuff and would take their que from the Greeks because Macedonia is usurping the Bulgarian language and culture.

5. Slovenia is prepared to buy our goods so long as they only come in a plane paper bag for pennies to the dollar - and want Macedonia to thank them for doing Macedonia a 'favor'.

6. The Serbs will take their 5 finger discount on every truck and train shipment that goes out.

This was the scenario for a long time in the past and could re-visit but today Macedonia is Not the same country.

The questions go on and on - I don't have time to go over everything to someone who wont even read 'political economics for dummies'.