International Court of Justice - Macedonia and Greece

[Vangelovski]

So Volk, you 'don't know', but your still pushing that BS secret grand strategy..how Buktopian of you!

[Volk]

So Volk, you 'don't know', but your still pushing that BS secret grand strategy..how Buktopian of you!

The only people that do know, would be Gruevski and Co.

I am not pushing for anything except free, logical thinking.

[Vangelovski]

The only people that do know, would be Gruevski and Co.

I am not pushing for anything except free, logical thinking.

And do tell, how is it "logical" to think that Gruevski and co are undertaking anything but treason?

[Volk]

And do tell, how is it "logical" to think that Gruevski and co are undertaking anything but treason?

hmm where in my post did I write that?

Your becoming quite tiresome, dont put words in my mouth, if you dont disagree with my post state why. Thats logical, yes?

[Vangelovski]

You just stated that you are "pushing for logical thinking". Every poster on here has demonstrated to you at one stage or another that Gruevski's actions are treason. You claim there are "other" reasons. So, if you are "pushing for logical thinking" and you believe there are "other" reasons, you must have a "logical" reason for that? You even alluded to some "illogical" reasoning above, hence my question...

[Bill77]

Dutch Legal Expert: Macedonia to Win Suit Vs Greece

Macedonia will win the suit against Greece regarding the violation of the bilateral Interim Agreement by preventing the former's NATO accession at the Bucharest summit, says Thomas Verfuss, Dutch analyst and President of the Association of Journalists at the International Criminal Court, in a statement for the Macedonian Television.

"The court has always tried to pass a fair judgment, but decisions are always based on international law. Its task is to interpret international law. Sometimes the losing side does not like the result. However, Macedonia's chances of victory in the case are high", stresses Verfuss.

He says agreements must be respected, which is an old and important principle of international law.

"States must respect their commitments. There are just a few concessions. The agreement's commitments can only be replaced by UN Security Council resolutions. This has happened in the case of Libya versus Great Britain and United States.

In addition, the agreement cannot be contrary or violate international laws. None of these concessions refers to the Macedonia-Greece suit. I believe judges will practice the right of the agreement's observance and Macedonia will win the case", adds the Dutch analyst.
http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/17702/45/

Let me correct this expert. "Macedonian Government to win suit vs Greece" I can't see how Macedonia can win.

But i do need help understanding the hi-lighted section. Does not this agreement it self, violate International Law? (such as right to self determination). Unless i have some misunderstanding, what is this "so called" expert on about.

[Vangelovski]

Bill77,

The agreement does violate international law, but worse yet, it vilates much more fundamental principles pertaining to human rights and natural law. Most of these "experts" are nothing but shallow amatuers, even when they have managed to stumble through a uni degree.

[Bill77]

Bill77,

The agreement does violate international law, but worse yet, it vilates much more fundamental principles pertaining to human rights and natural law. Most of these "experts" are nothing but shallow amatuers, even when they have managed to stumble through a uni degree.

Well because of these so called experts coming out with statements such as "Macedonia to win suit vs Greece" i bet the Republic are starting to plan the celebrations.

If these so called experts did their job properly, and highlight the fact (which is what you just stated) the Macedonians would put away there party hats and poppers, and put on there war hats and guns.


RAZBUDISE MAKEDONIJO

[Volk]

You just stated that you are "pushing for logical thinking". Every poster on here has demonstrated to you at one stage or another that Gruevski's actions are treason. You claim there are "other" reasons. So, if you are "pushing for logical thinking" and you believe there are "other" reasons, you must have a "logical" reason for that? You even alluded to some "illogical" reasoning above, hence my question...

Seriously, did you not read my post or are actually that stupid?

[makedonche]

Bill77,

The agreement does violate international law, but worse yet, it vilates much more fundamental principles pertaining to human rights and natural law. Most of these "experts" are nothing but shallow amatuers, even when they have managed to stumble through a uni degree.

Tom
Might be an opportunity to flag the legality of the agreement in the course of submissions?

[indigen]

Well because of these so called experts coming out with statements such as "Macedonia to win suit vs Greece" i bet the Republic are starting to plan the celebrations.

Bill77, if "Macedonia wins", Macedonians, provided they have not been LOBOTOMISED by the VASSAL propaganda machine, should be in as much of a celebratory mood as in April of 1993!

Gloom, bitterness mark Macedonia's entry to the UN

Skopje: The people of [...] Macedonia yesterday greeted the news that their state had become the 181st member of the United Nations with a mixture of gloom and bitterness.

State-run Macedonian television covered the UN General Assembly session live and celebratory fireworks lit up the skies over Skopje's central square.

But only a handful of people gathered to watch and the streets were deserted.

"All this struggle, all this never-ending agony, was it worth it?" asked one of the few onlookers in the central square.

[...]

Prime Minister Branko Crvenkovski was the only official voice of optimism in Skopje.

The Parliament had called a vote of no-confidence in the Government over its capitulation to the UN conditions for Macedonia's admission.

[...]

But, ignoring the urgings by moderate President Kiro Gligorov to accept reality, Macedonia's biggest opposition party called the no-confidence motion, saying Mr Crvenkovski's Cabinet had violated the constitution by accepting the compromise name.

[...]

The influential Holy Synod of the Macedonian Orthodox Church yesterday lent the nationalists unexpected support, calling the temporary name a "lie, trap and insult"....."

The West Australian, Saturday April 10, 1993.


----------------

MACEDONIA SPURNS NAME (ILAWARRA MERCURY 1-4-1993)


In an apparent collision course with the terse Government statement, Macedonian President Kiro Gligorov called on the nation to face up to reality.

Addressing the nation over state television, he appealed to Macedonians to "face up to reality without sacrificing any national interests"..."



Some lessons in recent Macedonian political history on political double-speak, deception, treasonous capitulation/betrayal and exposing those suffering from political AMNESIA (all those who claim to be patriots and dpmne supporters keeping true to the party's anti-capitulation ideology of the past!)!

If these so called experts did their job properly, and highlight the fact (which is what you just stated) the Macedonians would put away there party hats and poppers, and put on there war hats and guns.

Macedonians and the Macedonian Cause have suffered PRIMARILY because of the LACK of PATRIOTISM (or anti-Macedonian tendencies - Vassalage) of the "Macedonian INTELLIGENTSIA" more than from any other cause, IMO! Gragjanoidi i prodadeni IZRODI, toa sluzhi za makedonsaka intelegencija, so mali retki iskluchoci!!!

RAZBUDISE MAKEDONIJO

Kasno e ama poarno kasno otkolku nikogash!

[Vangelovski]

1. I dont know- I was asking about peoples opinions on the issue
Only the government knows.

2. Hard to say without understanding the governments strategy (if they even have one at all)

Personally I would say NO because I see no benefit from it. Maybe the government is trying to show the IC that they have done all they could and then withdraw from the talks.

I thought the government strategy was clear to an extent, create alternate supply channels other than greece for oil, gas and transport to EU, before halting talks. In other words, prepare for a hostile greece.

A port in Durres as an alternative to Solun, caro airport in Stip and Russian gas via the new pipeline (initiated by the Macedonian government)

Volk, here is your continued attempt to allude to some 'poker game' strategy of the Macedonian Government when there clearly is none. You claim that you no longer see any benefit to the ICJ case, yet you continue to push the same line as when you did see a benefit.

[Bill77]

Bill77, if "Macedonia wins", Macedonians, provided they have not been LOBOTOMISED by the VASSAL propaganda machine, should be in as much of a celebratory mood as in April of 1993!

Indigen, (you can call me Bill by the way, i was joking before)
A lot of water has gone under the bridge since 1993. Back then they were fresh from becoming independent and you can imagine the exuberance and patriotism when finally they tasted freedom and independence. Citizens have drunk a lot of poison since then. So in a sense they have been Lobotomised just not surgically. Thankfully (due to us living outside and don't drink their poison) many of us in the Diaspora have been immune to it.

Lets compare the situation and reactions in the Republic back in 93 compared to now.

1993 Gligorov changed our name in order to enter UN. Gligorov gets his face blown off.

2011 Gruevski admitted to proposal in changing our name and its only thanks to Greece it did not happen. He is only criticized and more due to the fact he lied. And the main critics are politicians (who criticise only for votes not that it is in the best interest of our country). Does his life feel threatened? or just his political future? Why is it frowned upon not to be a EU/Nato member by politicians and followers in the Republic. Don't get fooled by those 60% that want EU entry but not if it costs our name. They are halfway there to becoming Vassals.

Macedonians and the Macedonian Cause have suffered PRIMARILY because of the LACK of PATRIOTISM (or anti-Macedonian tendencies - Vassalage) of the "Macedonian INTELLIGENTSIA" more than from any other cause, IMO! Gragjanoidi i prodadeni IZRODI, toa sluzhi za makedonsaka intelegencija, so mali retki iskluchoci!!!

Then you agree with this "poisoned" opinion of mine. So why in the above statement, would you think citizens will not be in a celebratory mood as in April of 1993.

Kasno e ama poarno kasno otkolku nikogash!

Ne je kasno. while there still is a pulse there is life.


RAZBUDISE MAKEDONIJO

[George S.]

You know rtg mentioned so many inconsistencies in the accord & macedonia simply signed it away.One was the agreement for macedonia not to sue with the ICJ,this & other things how are they going to be seen legally.A win of the icj case may not really be awin ,will it mean no name change needed you can enter nato or eu without greece vetoing?Or more than likely the icj has no power to do anything but just recommend things.Greece will simply ignore the judgement it sounds like a hollow victory either way.

[Prolet]

No Government,President or Premier has the right to change our biblical name.