U.S. position on Macedonia

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  • Vangelovski
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 8532

    Volers must re-identify himself everyday in a new way. Because surely going back into the past, even yesterday, let alone 200+ years, and saying he's an American would be hypocritical.
    If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

    The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

    Comment

    • Risto the Great
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 15658

      Easy for a nation with no history. The USA (like Australia) is a nation with a majority of new settlers.
      Risto the Great
      MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
      "Holding my breath for the revolution."

      Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

      Comment

      • George S.
        Senior Member
        • Aug 2009
        • 10116

        It should be Macedonia for the Macedonians.It should be designed to unify all Macedonians And above all no comprimiseses.He talks of similarities with the usa what are these??The usa seems to tell Macedonia that they must change their name to to appease its neighbours.Unaware that the neighbor is waiting to gulp al monopoly on Macedonia's name like the sun symbol.The greeks want a copyright on" it's all greek".We know what they are upto total annihiliation of Macedonia.What do they mean everyone should participate in the debate eg the name change.This should all be stopped & the message to be put up don't change your name.Partticipate in the debate & participate in Macedonia's demise.
        Last edited by George S.; 11-29-2013, 06:05 PM.
        "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
        GOTSE DELCEV

        Comment

        • Vangelovski
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 8532

          Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
          Easy for a nation with no history. The USA (like Australia) is a nation with a majority of new settlers.
          They still have history that they build on - the American Revolution, ANZAC etc.
          If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

          The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

          Comment

          • George S.
            Senior Member
            • Aug 2009
            • 10116

            they don't seem to care only to herd someone along the likes of Macedonia.It doesn't care for Macedonia one dot or whittle.It wants Macedonia to conced & capitulate.So my e h=gajle na niv.Who cares about Macedonia & it's own problems not them.Has anyone cared for the catastrophic disaster that the name issue will bring ?
            Last edited by George S.; 11-30-2013, 01:15 AM.
            "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
            GOTSE DELCEV

            Comment

            • Stojacanec
              Member
              • Dec 2009
              • 809

              Volers, what your asking for is a direct slap in the face to all Macedonians. Then again I don't expect any yank to have much of an idea where their history starts at George Washington.

              Comment

              • Big Bad Sven
                Senior Member
                • Jan 2009
                • 1528

                Basically its the same old story, another country telling Macedonia what it can be, what it can think and do.

                Why wasnt Serbia, bulgaria, greece or albania given so much pressure in its formative years on creating their identity and thinking about its minorities when doing so? Why is Kosovo given free reign on creating its new artificial albanian identity but ok to ignore and even erase serbia and roma people and history?

                It appears that macedonia needs to make sure it doesnt offend any nation or ethnicity in the world before deciding to do something now.

                What ironic is that the USA recognized macedonia's name ( under murky situations but thats another story) but now wants macedonia to change its name, the identity of its people, name of its language LOL. What great friends

                What an absolute farce

                Comment

                • George S.
                  Senior Member
                  • Aug 2009
                  • 10116

                  Fully agree with you BBS.There are so much vested interest interest,s much traffic of drugs etc,corruption that its not funny.So much black market activity etc that its gone beyond a joke.WE are something we can be dispensed with.Who cares no one really.There is far too much money to be made from illegal sales etc.The Kosovo route offeres a clear route to eu.
                  "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
                  GOTSE DELCEV

                  Comment

                  • DedoAleko
                    Member
                    • Jun 2009
                    • 969

                    One Country, One Future

                    Remarks at FON University


                    December 18, 2013


                    Ambassador Paul D. Wohlers

                    Good morning Rector Kambovski, President Canoski, academic staff, students, and faculty. I am honored to be here with you again at FON University. In the two and a half years that I’ve been in Macedonia as U.S. Ambassador, I have visited communities from one side of the country to the other, and I’ve always especially enjoyed my time meeting with young people at universities. A good university can strengthen entire communities with the individual and collaborative efforts of students, teachers, and researchers. Your interactions with each other enrich your own knowledge and experience, helping you gain new perspectives and a wider lens through which to see the world.

                    I am especially pleased to be speaking to you now, during this month that holds special significance for the relationship between the United States and the Republic of Macedonia. It was 20 years ago – on December 3, 1993 – that we established the first United States Liaison Office here in Skopje, laying the groundwork for the broad and deep partnership our countries continue to enjoy. We celebrate and commemorate our history and partnership and look forward to many more years of friendship.

                    But although it’s important to remember anniversaries and to celebrate our shared past, as partners what is most important is that we look to the future and envision where we want to be and what we can continue to accomplish together. By looking to the future, we keep our partnership dynamic and growing. And although nobody knows what the future holds, I have no doubt that as we have stood together in the past, as we stand together now, so we will stand together in the years ahead, as friends and partners.

                    Meaningful partnerships like ours are based on common bonds, beliefs, and goals. In a strong and effective partnership, divisions that might otherwise seem significant – in terms of geography or history, for example – fade in importance as we look instead to what binds us together. We draw strength from the knowledge of what the United States and Macedonia share in common.

                    As important as this sense of shared purpose is to building common bonds between our two countries, a shared purpose is perhaps more important still within a country. When citizens have a strong sense of who they are and what binds them together as a country, it gives them the strength as one country to take on the challenges that they face, and to build a healthy, prosperous country for themselves, their children, and their grandchildren.

                    Before I talk about shared purpose and common bonds in Macedonia, I would like to tell you a bit about the American identity – what binds us together as Americans. As the United States is made up of people from all around the world, people with roots in different cultures who practice different religions and often speak different languages at home, it might be difficult to see what binds us together as a country. What does it mean to be an American? And how does our identity as Americans unify us in challenging times, guide us through adverse conditions, and influence how we engage with the world beyond our borders?

                    To begin, America, as our great nineteenth-century poet Walt Whitman wrote, is a “nation of nations.” The identity that began with a small group of religious dissenters seeking freedom of worship in the 1600s took root with successive waves of immigration that continue to shape our culture and society up to this day. Acceptance of new groups into the American identity has not always been easy. Prejudice and bias against different ethnic or religious groups has led to shameful episodes in our history. But hostility or suspicion towards newcomers in one generation often goes away with subsequent generations, so that a country that once held deep distrust of the Irish and of Catholics elected John F. Kennedy in 1960 as our first Irish-Catholic president. The year 2000 saw the first Jewish candidate representing a major political party in a presidential election, as Joe Lieberman was nominated for vice president as running mate to presidential candidate Al Gore. And more recent election cycles have brought us Mitt Romney as the first Mormon presidential nominee from a major party, and of course Barack Obama, our first African-American president. At other levels of government, we have had a Chinese-American governor in the State of Washington, and currently we have an Indian-American governor in the State of Louisiana.

                    The changes in American society and demographics reflected in our political leadership trends represent broader shifts in our culture, raising the question of how we define our culture and how our culture defines us. For example, my grandmother was born in Denmark and my grandfather in Germany, yet I am American. I have friends and family with roots in countries around the world, but we all share an identity as Americans. Although diversity undeniably enriches America, it is unity that sustains and preserves us as a country.

                    But that unity, that sense of our identity as Americans, is not really rooted in a common culture. Rather, our unifying structure is in essence a system of beliefs, and not a culture at all. Our core beliefs, as expressed in our Declaration of Independence, Constitution, Bill of Rights, and other foundational documents, are the binding elements that hold us together. We believe in principles such as freedom of expression and religion, equal rights and opportunities, justice, and rule of law, and we believe that these apply not just to ourselves. Rather, as Thomas Jefferson said, “we hold these truths to be self-evident,” and believe that the rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness belong to all of mankind.

                    Our American sense of identity is also very forward-looking. While it is rooted in our past, it is brought to life by a sense of shared purpose and the promise of a better future. You can hear the echoes of optimism in Jefferson’s phrase, “the pursuit of happiness” or in the first sentence of our Constitution explaining that the purpose underlying the drafting of the document was “in order to form a more perfect union.” It is this promise of who we can be as a country that unifies us. And it is our striving together to try to fulfill that promise that makes us most American.

                    Our history is of course an important part of who we are too. It is important to chart the path that has brought us to where we are today and to recognize how our past struggles have shaped who we have become. But because the values and beliefs that are at the core of our American identity are living and forward focused, our sense of who we are as a country has room to evolve and adapt as we change as a country. At our nation’s founding, animosity towards the British drove us into rebellion and underlay our emerging national consciousness, and yet now we have no stronger alliance; the United States and the United Kingdom enjoy a special relationship grounded in shared values.

                    In the mid-1800s, arguments over slavery and racial equality almost destroyed us as a country. As many as 750,000 American soldiers, both North and South, died in that war. But today – just last month in fact on the 150th anniversary of President Lincoln’s famous Gettysburg Address – our first African American president celebrated Lincoln’s visionary leadership as expressed in that historic speech. President Obama said he returns again and again to Lincoln’s address: “I linger on these few words that have helped define our American experiment: ‘a new nation, conceived in liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.’”

                    We commemorate our past, and it helps develop who we are, but it doesn’t define us. Rather, we look to our history primarily to see our struggles and successes in our “American experiment” – to celebrate the dedication of our forefathers to creating a “more perfect union,” and to take on that same challenge for ourselves. In reflecting on our past, we are reminded of our responsibility to the future, of our obligation as Americans to try to live up to our founding ideals, and to fight for the necessary change to fulfill America’s promise. We are one country, and we look to one future.

                    That a national identity could come out of a set of principles speaks to the strength of the foundation documents that set forth the values and convictions that laid out America’s path. But it also points to our relatively recent emergence as a state, and the unusual circumstances of a country created almost entirely of people who have come from elsewhere. Many countries in the world do not share these characteristics, and may find their identities complicated by history, or by opposition from some adversary beyond their borders. It is of course possible to spur nationalism and forge a sense of patriotic identity by celebrating the heroes of the past or opposing foreign threats. But perhaps more important than who you once were or who you oppose is having a strong sense of who you want to become, again looking forward to the future rather than backwards in the rear view mirror of history.

                    Contemplating the bilateral partnership between the U.S. and Macedonia and also what it means to be an American leads me to reflect on an important question here in the Republic of Macedonia. What does it mean to be from and of this country – to be a Macedonian citizen? We all know that is a controversial question and also very emotional for some. But that doesn’t mean the question should be avoided; in fact, perhaps that is why it should be discussed. As a country, Macedonia is in a time of unique opportunity, on the cusp of a new age. After centuries of border shifts and being part of other states and empires, the Republic of Macedonia finally stands as a country unto itself. For twenty-two years you have worked to overcome the difficult yet inevitable obstacles along the way of creating a new country, to become what you are today – a country of diversity, of great natural beauty and abundance, with the boundless talent, energy, and promise that I see reflected in the faces of students in this room today. Macedonia is a country ready to create the bonds that will unite generations from the past with the Macedonia of the future – ready to become one country, with one future.

                    But how do you do that? How has any country in history brought its people together as one unified group of citizens? Or, is that even what you want? Well, I believe that is what you want, and I know that is what your leaders want. They, along with every government since the independence of Macedonia, have worked to create the strongest and most prosperous Macedonia possible. That has been their goal, and as one method of achieving it, every Macedonian government has focused on joining the Euro-Atlantic community as their number one foreign policy aim. The U.S. fully shares this goal of making Macedonia the strongest and most prosperous country it can be. That’s one reason we have been such strong partners through the years since your independence.

                    To be as strong and prosperous as possible, you must be unified. No country, organization, or even football team can be successful if it’s not united. And looking around Macedonia, it seems that unity has been and continues to be difficult to achieve here. Cultural, ethnic, and political divisions seem to receive more attention than what people share in common, leading to lack of overall unity among the people who call Macedonia home.

                    So how will you unite and around what concepts? That is for you, the citizens of Macedonia, to decide. But the U.S. faced the very same problem as Macedonia – we too are a multi-ethnic society that has lived through periods of internal conflict. So I would make one suggestion for you to consider – to look at what worked for us. The people of the United States have not always felt united as a country. In addition to our tragic civil war, as I mentioned earlier, we have also had difficulties throughout our history in accepting newly arrived ethnic and cultural groups as equally American. Clearly, as a melting pot of people with different backgrounds, we could not unite around our past – our ethnicity, religion, or language. Instead we looked forward and united around principles and values such as freedom of expression, tolerance of ethnic and cultural differences, equality, justice for all, and a free enterprise system that gives everyone an equal chance to find a job or run their own business and prosper. Of course, our effort to unify is always a work in progress and we have not completely resolved all our issues, but in general, together we share, support, and believe in these values, and they make us a united country. This is what has worked for us, and it is one example of what you may choose to consider for Macedonia.

                    None of this will change your history or identity as individuals, and it shouldn’t. Whether you’re of Macedonian, Albanian, Vlach, Serbian, Turkish, or any other background, you are what you are, and you should remain proud of your past, like we are as Americans. I will always be proud of my German and Danish ancestry, for example, but although my heritage is part of my character, I am not defined by it. Rather, as an American I continue to look forward with my fellow citizens, and move as one country into the one future we will share. You can do the same, proud of your background, but united by your principles as citizens of Macedonia, looking forward as one country to one future. Nothing less than shape of your future as a nation is what is at stake. Like any good driver, Macedonia needs a large windshield to look at what lies ahead, and only a small rearview mirror to see what remains behind.

                    I encourage you to continue your dialogue on this question, to pursue an open conversation about how you can move together as a united people into Macedonia’s future. This issue affects all citizens of Macedonia, and all voices need to be heard. National unity based on your principles and values can lead you into the future you desire and give all citizens of Macedonia, regardless of their different backgrounds, a sense of shared purpose. In order to be as strong as you can be, you need to be as united as you can be. As one country, with one future.

                    izvor: http://macedonia.usembassy.gov/speec...h12182013.html

                    Comment

                    • Risto the Great
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 15658

                      Agreed. Unless your Latino or black minority has the same rights as Macedonia's ethnic Albanians. USA is not qualified to offer advice (other than dismantling I these false rights).
                      Risto the Great
                      MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                      "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                      Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                      Comment

                      • George S.
                        Senior Member
                        • Aug 2009
                        • 10116

                        another wannabee talk.Sounds too good to be true.Despite what is said Macedonia has done & is doing the opposite.Sounds likemacedonia has lost all sense & direction.
                        "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
                        GOTSE DELCEV

                        Comment

                        • Soldier of Macedon
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 13670

                          Just the latest bunch of morons trying to redefine our already existing historical identity. It gets boring reading this kind of garbage after a while, but such morons are emboldened by the spineless clowns who have led (and continue to lead) Macedonians down the disgraceful path of cowardly submission to foreign pressure.
                          In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                          Comment

                          • iceman
                            Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 132

                            US Researcher: Western Corporate Media Attack on Macedonia Failed

                            US Researcher: Western Corporate Media Attack on Macedonia Failed
                            Saturday, 30 May 2015
                            Supporters of the ruling coalition wave national and party flags, during a rally in front of the Parliament building in Skopje, Macedonia, Monday, May 18, 2015

                            After Russia's Stroitransgaz announced it will build a gas pipeline across Macedonia, Skopje has come under heavy criticism from Washington, Brussels and numerous US-funded NGOs, which blasted the government for violating "European values."

                            It looks like the West is going to give Macedonia a lesson of "democracy," noted American writer and researcher Michael Collins, drawing a parallel between the current situation in the country and dramatic (terrible) events which took place in Libya, Syria, and Ukraine.

                            "The announcement of Russian pipeline deal on March 12 put the small nation in the cross hairs of the Obama administration and Congress. Allowing Russia a backdoor to sell Europe natural gas challenged the economic and political war against Russia. The US and its puppet governments in London, Paris, and Berlin give lip service to free markets. But, when it comes to Russia, political goals trump commerce," the researcher underscored.

                            Macedonia's Prime Minister Nikola Gruevski was accused of taking bribes, shortly after the Russo-Macedonian deal had been announced.

                            However, "the press failed to mention that corruption has been a mainstay of Macedonian politics since independence in 1991. Even if true, the charges are just more of the same," Michael Collins highlighted. Important to note, there has been zero evidence against Gruevski's government of any wrong doing, in fact, Macedonians are going through their best economic times since their independence.

                            As usual, the Western corporate media have launched a large-scale campaign aimed against Macedonian authorities, accompanied by a group of tame American NGOs, which immediately joined the chorus together with Macedonia's opposition figures.

                            Indeed, a well-known US watchdog, the National Endowment for Democracy is spending hundreds of thousands of dollars in Macedonia in order to promote "Civic Engagement in Legislative Advocacy and Public Policy Dialogue," while the George Soros funded Open Society Foundation is carrying out "coordinated actions" aimed at forcing the government "to improve accountability and transparency," the writer noted.

                            "Like serpents in a swamp, the NGOs lay in wait for any signs of deviation from the projects of the US financial and political elite," the researcher elaborated with unconcealed sarcasm.

                            Furthermore, Albania's Foreign Ministry (instructed by the US) has also raised its voice against Skopje, slamming the Macedonian authorities for police brutality towards Kosovo Albanian terrorists, who attacked the police on May 9, 2015 in the city of Kumanovo. The terror group planned to stage large scale attack against civilians.

                            Meanwhile, British media – Western propaganda's "heavy artillery" – reported on May, 17 of "tens of thousands" of protesters in Skopje, who have demanded the resignation of Prime Minister Nikola Gruevski. There were hardly 15,000 anti-Government protesters, despite the protest being planned months in advance. In comparison, 90,000 pro-Government citizens rallied to show their support the very next day.

                            "There's a simple goal for the latest democracy festival in Macedonia. It's the same goal as its recent predecessors in Libya, Syria, and Ukraine," Michael Collins pointed out, "to bring [the country] some serious democracy."

                            Western elites have sent a clear message to Skopje and to other regimes which demonstrate "disobedience" to Washington and Brussels, saying: "cooperate or else," the writer concluded.
                            Bulgaria, Albania and Serbia's Government at this moment are completely under US control. Greece and Macedonia seem to be the 'odd' balls in the Balkans.

                            Comment

                            • iceman
                              Member
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 132

                              Obama petitioned to Recall Jess Bailey, the US Ambassador to Macedonia

                              bama petitioned to Recall Jess Bailey, the US Ambassador to Macedonia
                              Tuesday, 19 April 2016

                              We, the undersigned citizens of the United States of America ask President Obama to:

                              - Recall Jess Bailey, current ambassador of United States to the Republic of Macedonia (henceforth Macedonia), because of his continuous actions in violation of diplomatic conventions and norms, and for engaging in hostile activities against Macedonia;

                              - Direct US diplomatic staff to stop interfering in the internal affairs of Macedonia, particularly in investigating activities to destabilize the country and force a change of Macedonia’s legitimate and democratically elected government;

                              - Direct US officials to cease and desist preventing the Macedonian people to freely choose their government in the elections scheduled for June 5, 2016;

                              - Stop funding and supporting allegedly non-governmental organizations, such as the Soros Foundation, that promote ethnic and other tensions; engage in violence and acts of vandalism; and serve as instruments of political pressure in Macedonia’s politics and policies;

                              - Stop exerting pressure on Macedonian media to censor news and shows that are critical of US policies and actions, including of instances of US aggression, bullying, corruption and hypocrisy.

                              - Reveal the names and sanction appropriately all individuals involved in the mass wiretapping of Macedonian citizens. The more than million secretly recorded conversations, presumably by US and allied intelligence agencies, have been used to blackmail Macedonian government officials in an attempt to topple the legitimately elected government.

                              President Obama, we, the undersigned, desire excellent relations between the United States and Macedonia. However, we put you on notice that Ambassador Baily’s actions continue to cause grave damage to bilateral ties, as well as to US credibility and standing. If Ambassador Baily’s actions have been conducted to ultimately effect a change in Macedonia’s name to usher the country into NATO, be aware that the Macedonians, a sovereign people, will resist such efforts by any and all means. We hope you will agree that at a time when unfortunately, the US foreign policy is suffering defeats, recalling Ambassador Jess Baily will be a welcome change in doing the right thing and recasting the United States as beacon of freedom and liberty.

                              Comment

                              • vicsinad
                                Senior Member
                                • May 2011
                                • 2337



                                That's a link to the actual petition. Started by a group in New Jersey.

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