U.S. position on Macedonia

[Stojacanec]

It amazes me how the pan fried half baked american association can speak so frankly about another nation that is thousands of km's away.

I'd like them to speak about say China's internal affairs and see what they get.

These assertions they make that Macedonia would be useless as a NATO ally and our inability to get along with the Albanians makes them look very desperate to stir up trouble in the diaspora.

Given the magnitude of the riots in greece, problems with Turkey in Cyprus and economic failure, its no wander they appear desperate and are a laughing stock at best.

[George S.]

IT's another classic case of greeks interfeering in macedonia's affairs.The usual bullshit of how macedonia is not ready for membership blah blah.What do you expect from a bankrupt country the red carpet??They are desperate to try anything to stop macedonia.We should really stand up to them & cancel the negotiations what harm can it do & we will preserve our identity.

[Pelister]

Tom,

I wonder what the response from UMD would be? On spurious pretexts UMD have defended the 'negotiations' defended the Interim Accord and its terms and defended E.C policy against the Macedonians. They have even defended our right to be admitted under the acronym FYROM. It is too much for UMD to reject any of these processes and agreements, because they are being pushed by the West, which is why they do nothing. Meto Koloski thinks it a just and honest redress to show the Macedonians the path to salvation by committing political suicide, and why, because the Greeks are angry at us? These are villains who are trying to convince Macedonians to take another view, accept another history. They are participatintg in the whitewashing of the Macedonians.

[Daniel the Great]

I just want to share the opinion of this reporter from MINA news.
I wander how Gruevski will react to these claims by Greece. Or is he just going to ignore it rather than show how pathetic Greeks are when he meets Biden and Clinton.

Here is the article.


"As is the norm, the Greek Lobby in Washington has tripled their efforts to portray Macedonia in a negative light ahead of PM Gruevski's meeting with US VP Biden and State Sec. Hillary Clinton.

In a latter signed by the "Greek - American National Council" supported by the biggest workhorse for the Greek cause Senator Robert Menendez (D-NJ), the Council notes Macedonia's disrespect for its minorities and its very small (no) contribution to NATO as the main reasons why the country should not be allowed into NATO.

As is always the case, Greek lobbyists aren't interested in the facts, because facts are always on the Macedonian side.

Greek Paradox - Minority rights

While numerous minorities in Macedonia go to school and study in their own native languages, in Greece there are no such things as 'minorities'. According to Athens, there are no Macedonians, Albanians, Turks, Vlachs, Arabs... There are only Greeks and Greek Muslims, according to official Athens.

It's clear Greece is the violator of the most fundamental right, the right to self-identification.

NATO

The Greek American National Council claimed Macedonia has done nothing for NATO and should never be allowed to join the Alliance. Again, the facts say otherwise.

Greece never took part of the US Mission in Iraq, while Macedonia was involved with a special forces unit since the very beginning.

Greece has only 180 soldiers in Afghanistan all of them in a non combat role supporting construction projects. Despite having five times less people, Macedonia has 260 soldiers in Afghanistan, guarding Embassies, convoys, all in combat roles.

Despite Greek's Lobby best efforts, the US State Department and the Pentagon are well aware of Macedonia's contributions to NATO and the situation in the country.

Although the Macedonian PM had attended numerous events in DC, this will be his first official visit to the White House.

http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/17568/45/

[Vangelovski]

Tom,

I wonder what the response from UMD would be? On spurious pretexts UMD have defended the 'negotiations' defended the Interim Accord and its terms and defended E.C policy against the Macedonians. They have even defended our right to be admitted under the acronym FYROM. It is too much for UMD to reject any of these processes and agreements, because they are being pushed by the West, which is why they do nothing. Meto Koloski thinks it a just and honest redress to show the Macedonians the path to salvation by committing political suicide, and why, because the Greeks are angry at us? These are villains who are trying to convince Macedonians to take another view, accept another history. They are participatintg in the whitewashing of the Macedonians.

I'm sure that UMD will put together a Press Release or letter that not only undermines Macedonian freedom, but legitimises our oppression. As for Meto, I think it is obvious that he is preparing himself for a political career. That in itself is commendable, but what is abhorrent is that he has calculated that he is better off siding with our oppressors and those indifferent to our plight than with the Macedonian people themselves. So, rather than a political career as a 'leader' of the Macedonian people, he is in fact preparing himself for a vassalship, whether he realises this or not.

What never ceases to amaze me is that the Greeks actually see UMD as a threat. In reality, given its policy stance and ideological outlook, UMD would make a convenient ally. Perhaps the Greeks realise this and attack UMD in order provide them with some cheap "patriotic" credentials...who knows!?

[George S.]

THis letter is the most fucked up message i have ever read it's attacking macedonia where it hurts.Someone shouls reply to these maggots that they are wrong on many fronts.

[osiris]

the umd will say what their masters tell them to say.

[Pelister]

The ONLY person meddling with our identity is Gruevski. Anyone who doesn't toe the party line, is probably unemployable. This means that anyone opposing Gruevski's treachery will never find a job in the VMRO party. I think that party needs to change its name. It doesn't deserve that name. I just can't believe what these lunatics are doing. I bet if someone asked Gruevski, 'Are the Greeks Macedonians too?' he would say yes. I would love to see his response to such a question, if only to discover whether this fker has already 'negotiated' away the truth of our unfortunate history.

The Macedonians need to denounce the terms put to them, stand up for their basic rights, and be a slave to no one. It must tell the E.U to get fked, and then they must get on with the job of improving life for their people.

[fyrOM]

http://www.eurasiareview.com/world-n...tics-14032011/



So we (in fact) now have proof that anyone opposing concessions in Macedonia's ongoing dispute with Greece over its name is not employable by the ruling government. DrPajMeNE are an enemy of Macedonia.

There is No proof of anything other than someone overstepping their position and getting canned for that - no different to any government or company.

SoM...

...telling it how it is, or better yet, how it should be.

Vangelovski...

...to be forced to resign because you are doing your job (protecting the national sovereignty of your people) is the idiotic state of affairs in Macedonia...

makedonce...

Where's the Prime Minister to defend him? or at the very least support his right to an opinion!

You guys would do really well at a bun fight at market (it shows where you come from and where you belong) but I doubt your utopian state would last.

NO!! -NOT every one gets a right to an opinion, especially what they say in public. Lower downs can NEVER usurp their superiors - not in government, military nor in business - and usually this has the same result - getting fired. It is irrelevant what it was about.

Didn't a USA general get caned for speaking out not so long ago?

Imagine Obama saying one thing and his general (or anyone else for that matter) saying something else.

[makedonche]

There is No proof of anything other than someone overstepping their position and getting canned for that - no different to any government or company.

SoM...

Vangelovski...

makedonce...

You guys would do really well at a bun fight at market (it shows where you come from and where you belong) but I doubt your utopian state would last.

NO!! -NOT every one gets a right to an opinion, especially what they say in public. Lower downs can NEVER usurp their superiors - not in government, military nor in business - and usually this has the same result - getting fired. It is irrelevant what it was about.

Didn't a USA general get caned for speaking out not so long ago?

Imagine Obama saying one thing and his general (or anyone else for that matter) saying something else.

OM
Do you really think this is a dissmissable offence?

Diplomat Risto Nikovski last week controversially called for US ambassador Philip Reeker to be expelled.

He said the diplomat had overstepped the mark by proposing that Macedonia should make concessions in its ongoing dispute with Greece over its name.

As a result of the ensuing row, he was obliged to resign from his post as foreign policy advisor to the Macedonian President, Gjorge Ivanov.

Or that he should resign for those comments? I don't think so, he's not advocating violence or corruption or nepotism - what he actually states is factual and correct, in my view Reeker should have been dismissed on many occasions for his comments and meddling - yet Reeker is still there, and when someone finally says enough is enough and demands his expulsion, they lose their job-wtf!!!!!! And you think this is perfectly acceptable?

[Vangelovski]

fyrOM,

When your superiors violate your natural rights and the natural rights of all your people, they are no longer your legitimate superiors and require removal. But a little slave boy like yourself would not understand that...and even if you did, you would be too afraid to do anything about it (like speak out).

Just like the death camp guards - 'I was only following orders'.

[Soldier of Macedon]

There is No proof of anything other than someone overstepping their position and getting canned for that - no different to any government or company.

Expressing one's opinion in the interest of their nation is "overstepping" the mark? Your pathetic apologism will soon come to an end on this forum if you don't cease with your idiotic analogies and bong-induced rants. Quite frankly, we are tired of a small handful of morons like yourself that misrepresent the sentiments of the Macedonians in Australia. Why aren't little worms like you ever out in the public expressing these views?

[osiris]

I am not convinced these patriotic outbursts are anything more than hot air the whole neo vmro movement has expressed tough talk on many occasions and wilted like opium poppys in the hot sun when confronted by the western carrot and stick approach to small nations. Only a short while ago we were praising gruevski ivanov for talking tough. lets see how the situation develops before we jump onto another voivida/saviour bandwagon.

[Risto the Great]

lets see how the situation develops before we jump onto another voivida/saviour bandwagon.

We can't, the saviour got sacked.

[fyrOM]

OM
Do you really think this is a dissmissable offence?

Or that he should resign for those comments? I don't think so, he's not advocating violence or corruption or nepotism - what he actually states is factual and correct, in my view Reeker should have been dismissed on many occasions for his comments and meddling - yet Reeker is still there, and when someone finally says enough is enough and demands his expulsion, they lose their job-wtf!!!!!! And you think this is perfectly acceptable?

It is a dismissible offense regardless if I think it is or not - but to answer your question, yes I do.

Every chain of command - be it government, military or business - exists on the respect of your superior and cannot function if there is no clear command structure - not everyone can be equal if the integrity of the structure is to be maintained.

The most important thing is the integrity of the structure because if the leader says we are doing 'this' and literally anyone can say we are doing 'that' then who is to be followed? You have just destroyed the chain of command which can have dire outcomes.

This situation was not war but by disrespecting the authority of the Prime Minister the offender undermined the position of The Office and by doing so made his position untenable and dismissal is the Only option. Tolerating descent diminishes the power of The Office in the eyes of both internal and external people.

Vangelovski Post014

When your superiors violate your natural rights and the natural rights of all your people, they are no longer your legitimate superiors and require removal.

Exactly the words of dissent, rebellion and depending on the extent - treason. It's not the first time in the history of people that disagreement with the leader has happened and those who act on it either become the new leader or get fired, jail or die as the case may be but it does not mean the leader has No right to take action and must tolerate all dissent - his position will always be in question.

SoM Post015

Expressing one's opinion in the interest of their nation is "overstepping" the mark? Your pathetic apologism will soon come to an end on this forum if you don't cease with your idiotic analogies and bong-induced rants.

See SoM, by the first sentence you were confused and by the second you were starting to get it - but not close enough - no cigar!
Try it in the army and see how far it gets you - a stay in the brig!
It doesn't matter what I think - this is the law/rule - this is how it is in the world and whether or not you like it is irrelevant! I find it pathetic you threatening me for simply stating a fact which you seem not to like...and in your statement there's the authority of the king and despite your avatar having something on its head like a crown, close enough is not good enough and your not king, so grow up and take a look at what's in the world. It's just there - I didn't make it.

See, now if this were a government,military or business for saying my post in public (no matter that my post is ABSOLUTELY right, mind you) and disrespecting an office I would be up for reprimand - phew!...lucky for me it's NOT! Stop behaving like a tin-can god and threatening nilly-willy and show some professional respect to your position - I was simply stating a fact.

RtG Post017

We can't, the saviour got sacked.

Is your eyesight failing, old lion - The Leader is still there - Sieg Heil!
I just don't know if it's SoM or Gruevski or who?