Financial Crisis in Greece

[Voltron]

[QUOTE]

Voltron,
You might have me confused with someone else. I have been to Greece 4 times in the last 7 years. The people are lazy and expect to be rewarded for it. This is the problem. Please do not blame some American (or whatever) because they want to work harder. I am positive the Greek government is part of the problem. They spent hundreds of millions in cash for support/bribes for the "quest for Macedonia" in recent times. Imagine what they have spent on themselves!

What your bringing up is a different story Risto. I am no fan of unions here in Greece and the mentality of those (espescially civil servants) and I would be the first one to smack them upside the head.
That is a different issue though. We are talking about a Global Crisis not something only related to Greece. How much better off is the US to us ? Do you know that the only thing keeping them afloat right now is the bailout they provided to the banks. The burden of the US Bailout is nowplaced on the backs of every American taxpayer and yet these Godless pricks are walking away with mulitmillion dollar corproate bonuses each year. How is that any different to what our politicians do for themselves ? Seems like old habits die hard, even in America.
If China comes in tommorrow knocking on Uncle Sams door and wants to collect, you can rest assure that the US will be fucked in not so many words. Yet the average American is silent, they take it up the ass without even flinching then they say that is a normal life. Its really sad.

Not many Greeks in the Diaspora have much pity for their relatives "back home". They know what they had to do to create a life for themselves in their new countries.

Youre right on this and I dont blame the diaspora one bit. Its simply because the ppl here in Greece never took action into their own hands to try and make the change. Although in my opinon ppl change by example. If you have leaders that lead the way, the ppl will follow. If you dont then they will not. Simple as that.

[George S.]

Voltron they call greece the basket case of the eu in the way it has gone down & we are waiting on the explosion.I think the ordinary greek person must have a gutfull of their politicians & they know who is to blame for it.

[Stojacanec]

Voultron, I am not saying to bust your arse till your 67. In Aust you have an opportunity to retire at 55 if you like but you need to be self funded. the superannuation laws allow for this. So if you have built up a good enough nest egg you can retire.

For a worker to be able to retire at 50 in Aus with full pension is unheard of. What a drain on govt funds.... and how sweet it is for the Greeks. Here the govt will give me nothing at 50.

Where does the govt get all this money from?

The public debt in Greece is the highest in Europe and 5th highest in the world.

[Voltron]

Not too bad down under then...

We now retire here in Greece at 65, prior to that we had the same retirement age as most countries in Europe including Italy. So its not like we were special or anything.

As far as public debt, how many other European countries spend the same amount in Defense Military equipment ? Greece gets pressureed all the time to buy equipment from US, Germany, France, Italy, Russia, etc.
They know we have to dish out and they play the game quite well. Even during the Greek Crisis, the French supported us then asked us to buy Rafales. Go figure...

Nothing against the French either. Its just business.

[SirGeorge8600]

Voltron,
Not many Greeks in the Diaspora have much pity for their relatives "back home". They know what they had to do to create a life for themselves in their new countries.

Very well said...as a Greek-American I say f**k them...I just get pissed off when I see their pathetic socialist protests thinking it's going to do something when it simply isn't. Of course though I am sympathetic with the loads of Greeks who are being pounded by austerity restrictions when they're already working their asses off and making end's meet. Corruption brews high in the government and something clearly needs to be done about that.... I think that the EU leaders at Brussels or Germany need to form a puppet state in Greece to over take the government.

Anyway, I fear to say that this global crisis is only the beginning. It will get much worse in the EU and especially America and that in the near future we will begin seeing radical changes in global sovereigns in order to maintain themselves...and if that doesn't happen then the global stage for Keynesian economics and democracy will be in serious trouble. Hate to rain on the parade, but I don't have much faith in humanity and I think that this global crisis will lead to very dark times.

Going back to the EU which is only a fraction of the crisis: if a small country like Greece that only holds a single digit percentage of significance in the Euro can do such 'damage' to the Euro and the European economy then we should begin worrying what will happen when major European economies begin spiraling down Greece's path...such as Spain and Italy which have yet to see improvement. I really don't know why people have faith in Brussels or the EU central committees/bankers.... their cheap "extensively" thought out methods and plans have clearly failed in a small state like Greece. They aren't dependent and it will only take a moderate amount of economic stress for them to dump their liberal democratic 'union' mentality and turn coldly utilitarian and dissolve the union... and this has been the past history of many sovereigns.

Oh well that's my two cents

[Voltron]

Hey Arlington Heights,

I wonder what your opinion is regarding the bail out of banks ? I can find a house in Itasca that was worth half a million USD a few years back for around 180,000 Euro lol. Now that is pathetic. My Condo is probably worth more than your house.

Not to mention countless Americans defaulting on their mortgage because they owe more than what their property is worth. Healthcare going down the shitter and your problem is with Socialism ? Thats a pretty trendy word nowadays back at home that is often used by the GOP. Again, making more and more Americans complacent and used to the idea of being treated like a number.

That dont fly with me, I used to live there. I wouldnt be surprised If we saw each other in church. No offense mate of what was said before, but I think your barking up the wrong tree.

[SirGeorge8600]

I think Obama screwed up in that respect...clearly I said the crisis is getting worse in America, not just the EU. Also you used to live in near me? lol. Point is I know when I use the word socialist...I might not be a full liberal, but by no means do I support the GOP. You are right, healthcare is going to the shitter here and I expect medicare and medicaid (which have socialist healthcare methods) to completely dissolve in the next decade if this crisis continues. A nice system the government developed to help the aging WW2 generation, but now is too costly and resource consuming...would the US really suffer if it's old-folk died out early? It's really sad but true. The liberals preach Obama-care but have yet to see the utilitarian gears behind it.

[Risto the Great]

.... I think that the EU leaders at Brussels or Germany need to form a puppet state in Greece to over take the government.

I think that process has already begun and will be the model for all EU member states.

[Voltron]

^ It has a name too, its called the IMF.

[Risto the Great]

^ It has a name too, its called the IMF.

Well that is close I suppose. It represents the final influence of the USA and I wonder how much longer they will cling to effective control of the IMF.

[Voltron]

USA is waning Risto. Its not what it used to be. There is a new world order in the making where organizations like the IMF will rule countries and soverignty as we know it will cease to exist. Like I said before, this is what concerns me and this is what means a lot to me. Not so much what Macedonians decide to call themselves.

[SirGeorge8600]

Greece should pull a 'Poland' and not pay the IMF... hats off to the Poles for being the one nation that refused to pay back the IMF...they simply got a bunch of angry letters and then that was that.... lol.

[George S.]

Humor Headlines on Greek crisis from around the world

By Vhurnalistot Vo Meana

(with nothing lost in translation)

Greeks outraged that EU will not support the life-style to which they are accustomed in the “cradle of civilisation”.


Greeks cry foul to accusations that they have not done any work or paid taxes for fifty years.


Macedonian grandmothers relaxed about the effect of their curses on Greece.


George Papandreou considers ditching the Greek half of himself and taking up residence in USA.


Human rights group condemns Greece for “billions of Euros of wrongful expenditure on so-called anti-Skopjen Propaganda”.


China offers bail out package if Greece adopts Mandarin as official language.


“Greek laziness a result of centuries-long Turkish occupation,” says Philhellene historian.


Macedonian left-winger says Greeks have “reduced the selfish euro system to total absurdity and enjoyed themselves in the process.”

Zorba admits tax evasion does not pay.

“They did it because they could but are they smart enough to get away with it?” American mafia boss says.

[TrueMacedonian]

Athanasiadis: The result of 20 years of corruption, tax evasion and ignoring reality

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/iason-athanasiadis-the-result-of-20-years-of-corruption-tax-evasion-and-ignoring-reality-2304484.html

Iason Athanasiadis: The result of 20 years of corruption, tax evasion and ignoring reality

Thursday, 30 June 2011

As school children in Athens, every year we practised an alarming custom. At the end of the school year, we gathered our textbooks into a pile and burnt them in an act of rebellion against the rigidity of the educational system. Today, there is a parallel to that self-destructive behaviour in the blame-game unfolding on Constitution Square as Greeks curse their democratically elected politicians for "lulling" them into two decades of easy credit, soft corruption, tax evasion and overspending.


But they selectively ignore that they consented to an unwritten social pact whereby demonstrably corrupt politicians conjured up a higher level of living in return for no questions asked. But if people didn't know that Greece fiddled statistics to get into the European Union, then over-borrowed to fund the exaggerated lifestyles of corrupt politicians, many knew, perhaps only subconsciously, that foul play was afoot.

Now that the cat's out of the bag, many Greeks have opted for blaming the West for their travails instead of shouldering the blame. Global banks, the International Monetary Fund, Zionism and assorted scarecrows are infinitely preferable targets than facing up to our silent, corroding collusion. To kalo to palikari xerei allo monopati (the smart lad knows a better path) goes the Greek folk saying, and for years we fancied ourselves cutting fine figures as we negotiated our own special path.

But in dealing with Brussels we were falling foul of another saying: Logareiazei xoris ton xenodoho (acting without taking the innkeeper into account). Today, although some blame must be apportioned to international institutions for encouraging Greece's addiction to debt, almost no voices ask why Greeks knowingly lived beyond their means.

This refusal to deal with our past but rush to the soothing shelter of collective amnesia reminded me of the slightly bizarre experience of my Greek childhood. I grew up in Eighties Athens. I took for granted the embedded racism, clientilism and absence of meritocracy.

At sports events, the hooligans setting fires to the stadium, exploding fireworks into basketball arenas and pelting players with coins were described with quiet pride and a dash of admiration as "fanatics". Criminals often organised escapes from supposedly high-security jails. Demonstrators rioted in the streets on political anniversaries while the police stood by impassively. Only later did I learn that the authorities viewed the rioting as an important pressure valve on society necessary for manipulating the political agenda.

Then it got even better. Entry into the EU was interpreted as a signal to become "Western", ergo degenerate. Magazines featured scantily clad girls in suggestive poses as swaths of society plunged into a consumerist lifestyle unprecedented in Greek history.

When I moved to a school in London, I thought that all this and more was typical of every Western country and that Greek reality was normality. After all, raising your voice in protest at this paradigm resulted in getting shouted down as a xenerotos (pathetic) or floros (a dweeb). Now I spend some of my time in Kabul. In this failed state, with its massive corruption and a resurgent Taliban, it quite reminds me of home.

Iason Athanasiadis is a writer and photographer based in Istanbul and Kabul

[Risto the Great]

Right on the money I would suggest.

But if people didn't know that Greece fiddled statistics to get into the European Union, then over-borrowed to fund the exaggerated lifestyles of corrupt politicians, many knew, perhaps only subconsciously, that foul play was afoot.

The highlighted section above is why I am so sure Macedonia will change its name for entry into the EU.