Financial Crisis in Greece

[George S.]

Voltron that 2hundred billion plus 30 billion bailout money has completely vanished or is some of it stashed away.?Greece may not explode we are waiting for the implosion first.

[TrueMacedonian]

Earth to Greece: It's Over

http://blogs.forbes.com/louiswoodhill/2011/04/27/earth-to-greece-its-over/

Earth to Greece: It’s Over
Apr. 27 2011 - 2:46 pm
Louis Woodhill

When a developed, sovereign nation finds itself borrowing at VISA card interest rates, it’s time to declare (really, admit) bankruptcy. With market interest rates on its 2-year notes now exceeding 22%, this is the position that Greece is in today. By making a bargain with the bailout devil to raise taxes in the name of “austerity”, Greece has pitched itself into an economic death spiral from which there is no escape short of defaulting on its debts.

On April 26, Eurostat reported that Greece’s budget deficit for 2010 was 10.5% of GDP, much higher than the Greek government’s target of 9.4%, or even the European Commission’s 9.6% forecast made only two months ago. In what should serve as a warning to the Obama administration, the main cause of Greece’s higher than expected deficit was lower than expected revenue. In other words, the tax increases that Greece piled on at the behest of the IMF and the EU did not work as anticipated. In 2010, the Greek government collected 39.1% of GDP in taxes, which less than the 40.0% it collected in 2007. And, real Greek GDP was 5.2% lower in 2010 than it was in 2007.

Whether it involves Greece or the U.S., politicians, economists, and budget analysts seem hypnotized by “static analysis”, the naïve belief that if you raise tax rates by 10%, you will get 10% more revenue. This superstition leads to “austerity packages” that attempt to reduce budget deficits via combinations of spending cuts and tax increases. If austerity actually worked, Greece would not now be hurtling toward the deficit dumpster, with Portugal close behind.

Austerity is always self-defeating, because tax hikes suppress economic growth, and economic growth is the only thing that really matters to government finances. Here are some numbers.

In 2007, Greece had debt equal to 105.4% of GDP. However, real GDP had grown at an average rate of 4.2% over the previous ten years, and the real interest rate on Greek government debt was only about 1.5%. Looking at these numbers, lenders calculated that the present value of both Greek GDP and Greek government revenues was infinity, and that its debt capacity was infinite. And, back in 2007, the markets pretty much dealt with the Greek government as if it had infinite debt capacity, lending to it all of the money it wanted, at interest rates only slightly higher than those charged to Germany. The important thing to understand is that the markets were behaving rationally based upon the facts at the time.

Fast forward to 2010, and the picture is very different. Greek government debt is now 142.8% of GDP. However, Greece’s economy is contracting at a real annual rate of 1.8% (2008 – 2010 average) and the real interest rate on (10 year) Greek government debt is around 10.0%.

If lenders plugged these numbers into the same model that they used in 2007, they would calculate that Greece could only avoid default if it could devote 17.2% of GDP to debt service. Given that Greece collects 39.0% of GDP in taxes, and currently spends 5.6% of GDP on interest, this would require that they immediately cut non-interest government spending in half, from 43.9% of GDP to 21.8% of GDP. Any rational lender would conclude that this was not likely to happen, which is why Greece is now being financed not by the capital markets, but by the IMF, the EU, and the ECB.

A number of European analysts have suggested that Greece “must not be allowed to default” because “the consequences (mainly to European banks) would be too severe”. If one of these analysts jumped off the Empire State Building and was interviewed as he passed the 50th floor, he would probably say that he did not expect to hit the pavement below because “the consequences would be too severe”.

Even if the EU elites have a desire to continue flinging billions of euros into the fiscal black hole that Greece has become, the taxpayers supplying those euros do not. Political forces are building to put an end to the bailout game. Then what?

Some have said that Greece would be in a better position today if it had its own currency and could devalue. This is purely hypothetical, because Greece uses the euro and cannot go back to the drachma even if it wanted to.

Right now, if Greece were to default on its debt and lose all external financing, it would be forced to immediately cut its non-interest spending from 43.9% of GDP to 39.0% of GDP. However, if it were to reintroduce the drachma, the new currency would quickly become worthless, while the private Greek economy went underground and continued to do business in euros. Because what taxes were paid would be paid in drachmas, the real revenues of the Greek government would fall from about 90 billion euros per year to just about zero. The outcome of all of this would not be pretty.

The fact that Greece is stuck with the euro would actually be an advantage in the event of a Greek sovereign default, if things were handled correctly. This is because when a government defaults, the immediate challenge is to keep the economy moving, which means to keep transactions going and new investment flowing.

When a government defaults explicitly, it defaults alone. When it defaults via inflation, it forces private debtors to default along with it. Creditors receive only a small fraction of the real value promised. This poisons the environment for financing new capital investments. Also, as Argentina demonstrated in 2002, when a new currency with no credibility is suddenly introduced, monetary conditions have to be kept savagely tight in order to maintain any exchange value for the new currency at all. This depresses demand and forces a deep recession. Unless the ECB were to do something stupid, a debt default by Greece would have no impact upon the value of the euro, so the Greek economy would still have a viable currency.

The most important thing for the Greek government to do in the event of a default would be to adopt policies that would produce rapid real economic growth. Logically, this would include getting rid of their personal and corporate income taxes, which cost Greece much more in economic growth than they are worth in terms of revenue generation. Regulation of business should also be greatly reduced and streamlined. The default itself would force a needed cut in government spending.

Of course, if these reforms had been made in 2008, Greece would not now be facing fiscal Armageddon. The lesson for America is simple: economic growth now or debt default later.

[TrueMacedonian]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/economy-lab/milner-economy/why-europe-is-delaying-greeces-default/article2000273/

Why Europe is delaying Greece's default
BRIAN MILNER
Globe and Mail Blog
Posted on Wednesday, April 27, 2011 6:37AM EDT

Some things in life are simply inevitable: The NHL will abandon its failed experiment in the Arizona desert; Fed chairman Ben Bernanke won’t tell us anything we don’t already know at his historic first press conference; and Greece will restructure its debt.

As for the Greeks, the only question is why is something so obvious taking so long?

Greece, like Ireland and Portugal, is insolvent. If it was a corporation, the bankruptcy experts would have called in the secured creditors long ago to inform them that the only way to avoid liquidation was to accept extended terms on their loans and maybe 30 or 40 cents on the dollar at the end.

Instead (not unlike the NHL in Phoenix), the Greek government and its lenders of last resort, the EU and IMF, have opted for a much slower and more agonizing process that is causing considerably more pain for the Greeks and unnecessary uncertainty in the markets. If the euro zone countries can’t fix this mess in a timely manner, what good are their guarantees about the future of the monetary union?

The reason for prolonging Greece’s agony has nothing to do with the needs of the Greeks or the bond market and everything to do with the fragile health of banks in Germany, France and a handful of other euro zone locales that happen to be stuck with vaults full of Greek, Portuguese, Irish and Spanish bonds.

“It’s not an easy decision to make, because nobody knows exactly how it will play out,” says Nicolas Véron, an expert on European banking at Bruegel, a Brussels-based think tank. “The Europeans (to their major shame) have not yet been able after more than two years to put Europe’s major banks back on a sound footing, so everybody is afraid of the shock waves.”

Mr. Véron notes that their preferred solution is to keep kicking the proverbial can down the road, which is no kind of solution and can’t continue much longer.

On Tuesday, we learned that Greece’s budget deficit last year reached 10.5 per cent of GDP, well above the 9.4 per cent the government was estimating just two months ago. Which tends to happen when your economy shrinks 4.5 per cent.

“I don’t think that Greece will succeed in this consolidation strategy without any restructuring in the future, or perhaps also in the near future,” Lars Feld, who sits on the German government’s economic advisory council, declared in an interview on Bloomberg Television. “Greece should restructure sooner than later.”

Greek politicians can criticize bond-rating agencies as much as they like. But the agencies are merely following the market with their downgrades and warnings -- not leading it. Putting off a restructuring won’t do anything to rescue the economy from its current downward spiral, make borrowing costs cheaper or save their political hides.

Taking the full hit now would be deeply painful, and not only for the Greeks. But it beats the alternative. And it might force the Europeans to deal with their severely damaged banks and finally tackle the fiscal and other structural problems that led to this mess in the first place.

The analytical minds at Goldman Sachs assure us that the hit to European bank balance sheets would not be as heavy as it would have been last year, thanks to loans from the European Central Bank, which has adamantly opposed a quick Greek restructuring. Their estimate of the effect of a haircut of 60 per cent: bank losses totalling €41-billion. A more modest 20 per cent cut would result in losses of €13-billion.

[fyrOM]

Greece: IMF chief quotes put PM on spot

http://www.idividi.com.mk/English/World/681718/index.html

Athens, 5 May 2011 (MIA) - Opposition parties raised questions about Prime Minister George Papandreou's credibility on Wednesday after a previously unheard recording of International Monetary Fund Managing Director Dominique Strauss-Kahn suggested that the Greek premier had turned to the Washington-based organization with Athens's debt problems much earlier than previously thought, reads daily "Kathimerini".

On Tuesday night, Alpha TV aired an extract of an interview that Strauss-Kahn gave as part of a French documentary. The clip broadcast was not included in the film and had not been made public before. In it, the Frenchman admitted that the there had been "behind-the-scenes contacts" between Papandreou and the IMF for some time.

In fact, Strauss-Kahn suggested that Greece and the IMF were able to agree on the details of the emergency loan memorandum in May 2010 in two weeks because so much groundwork had been done earlier.

"The Greek authorities wanted the IMF to intervene but Papandreou could not tell his people for political reasons," said the IMF chief.

He indicated the Greek premier started consulting Strauss-Kahn about some form of assistance as early as November 2009, a few days after PASOK was elected to office.

New Democracy spokesman Yiannis Michelakis suggested the comments backed up the party's doubts about whether the memorandum's signing was constitutional. The Communist Party said it did not need Strauss-Kahn's comments to work out "what huge lies" the government has been telling. The Coalition of the Radical Left (SYRIZA) said it was proof Papandreou did all he could to ensure Greece "ended up in the arms of the IMF."

The government played down the affair, citing comments made by Papandreou on December 11 in which he said that he was in contact with Strauss-Kahn.

[julie]

International Monetary Fund Managing Director Dominique Strauss-Kahn suggested that the Greek premier had turned to the Washington-based organization with Athens's debt problems much earlier than previously thought

Corruption, scandal, but the Washington-based organization is Uncle Sam of course. Bunch of tools

[Onur]

This is a good article, explaining the grave situation of the Greek economy and why Sarkozy and Merkel struggles to keep Greece alive;

Why Greece Will End Up Getting More Money From EU

Do not be surprised that German Chancellor Angela Merkel is leaving the door open for German taxpayers to loan more money to Greece.

This despite opinion polls indicating the majority of German voters oppose a second bailout and few believe Berlin will get back the $30 billion it’s already pledged.

Ball park figures put together by JP Morgan Chase highlight the devastating effect a traditional default by Greece would have, with bond holders forced to declare capital losses—or take a "haircut"—on the amount Athens not longer intended to honor.

It’s the reason Merkel and the rest of Europe will loan Athens more money: to keep Greece servicing its debt and prevent those writedowns.

Greek banks held about $70 billion of Greek government debt at the end of last year's third quarter. But the discounts that Greek banks trade at on the Athens stock market already indicate that a 35% writedown is priced in, according to JP Morgan.

A writedown of 50% would all but wipe the banks out. And if they collapsed, the country would likely melt down into economic chaos.

European banks outside Greece held $72 billion of Greek government debt at the end of the third quarter. But they've also loaned $165 billion to the private sector in Greece—debts that clearly run the risk of not being serviced, particularly if the local banks melt down.

So West European banks have a total exposure of roughly $237 billion to Greece, much of it presumably not currently marked to market because the banks show them as being "held to maturity" in their capital structure.

Writedowns would change that.

More specifically that total exposure is split—$98 billion owed to the French banks, $72 billion to the Germans.

Even that is only the start of why Angela Merkel and French President Nicolas Sarkozy will throw more of their taxpayers’ cash at Greece.

Because if politicians in Athens give up on brutal austerity—and Greece leads the way to default—Ireland's politicians are likely to follow, throwing in the towel on their own tough choices and default.

Ireland owes European banks $645 billion—that's $215 billion to the Germans, $82 billion owed to the French and a whopping $237 billion to the British banks, estimates JP Morgan.

If Greece defaults, awkward questions would soon be asked about the future solvency of the European Central Bank.

To prop up peripheral bond markets, JP Morgan estimates the ECB has bought $57 billion of Greek government debt at probably 80 cents on the on the dollar, so assume a face value of $72 billion.

The ECB has also directly loaned the Greek banks about $130 billion, for which they posted $207 billion in collateral.

So JP Morgan concludes the ECB's total notional exposure is $278 billion ($72 billion plus $207 billion).

But since it has offset 68% of that by loaning or investing $187 billion ($57 billion plus $130 billion) it says it's protected to a haircut of 32%. Though it seems unlikely the ECB could get its loans back from the banks if they're melting down.

Those losses would be shared between the euro zone's 17 national central banks, which it estimates have $116 billion in reserves, so could arguably absorb a Greek default.

But, again, what if Ireland follows?

The ECB's total exposure to Ireland is $244 billion if you add in Dublin’s own local safety net for which the ECB is presumably the ultimate backstop. That’s a second default that the ECB could not afford uless it either it prints more money to support itself or taxpayers in 17 other EU members pony up more cash to do the same.

Neither option would go down well in Berlin.

If Greece keeps paying its bills, the whole house of cards still stands, and that is the game that Europe will keep playing.

Ultimately Greece’s repayment schedule may be extended or France and Germany will orchestrate swapping Greek debt, at a moderate discount, for EU-guaranteed debt, Brady bond-style from the 1980s.

But one things is for sure, neither Merkel and Sarkozy are about to step away.

10 May 2011

http://www.cnbc.com/id/42974388

[fyrOM]

A writedown of 50% would all but wipe the banks out. And if they collapsed, the country would likely melt down into economic chaos.

European banks outside Greece held $72 billion of Greek government debt at the end of the third quarter. But they've also loaned $165 billion to the private sector in Greece—debts that clearly run the risk of not being serviced, particularly if the local banks melt down.

So West European banks have a total exposure of roughly $237 billion to Greece, much of it presumably not currently marked to market because the banks show them as being "held to maturity" in their capital structure.

Music to my ears, Onur, the sooner Greece is wiped off the map the better, hopefully by internal war.

When someone says they want you to cease to exist, I have no problem in saying the above.

[fyrOM]

Greece Can't Repay Loans, Wants to Exit Euro Zone

http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/18112/52/

Friday, 06 May 2011


Greece's economic problems are massive, with protests against the government being held almost daily. Now Prime Minister George Papandreou apparently feels he has no other option: German media has obtained information from German government sources knowledgeable of the situation in Athens indicating that Papandreou's government is considering abandoning the euro and reintroducing its own currency.

Alarmed by Athens' intentions, the European Commission has called a crisis meeting in Luxembourg on Friday night. In addition to Greece's possible exit from the currency union, a speedy restructuring of the country's debt also features on the agenda. One year after the Greek crisis broke out, the development represents a potentially existential turning point for the European monetary union -- regardless which variant is ultimately decided upon for dealing with Greece's massive troubles.

Given the tense situation, the meeting in Luxembourg has been declared highly confidential, with only the euro-zone finance ministers and senior staff members permitted to attend. Finance Minister Wolfgang Schäuble of Chancellor Angela Merkel's conservative Christian Democratic Union (CDU) and Jörg Asmussen, an influential state secretary in the Finance Ministry, are attending on Germany's behalf.

'Considerable Devaluation'

Sources told SPIEGEL ONLINE that Schäuble intends to seek to prevent Greece from leaving the euro zone if at all possible. He will take with him to the meeting in Luxembourg an internal paper prepared by the experts at his ministry warning of the possible dire consequences if Athens were to drop the euro.

"It would lead to a considerable devaluation of the new (Greek) domestic currency against the euro," the paper states. According to German Finance Ministry estimates, the currency could lose as much as 50 percent of its value, leading to a drastic increase in Greek national debt. Schäuble's staff have calculated that Greece's national deficit would rise to 200 percent of gross domestic product after such a devaluation. "A debt restructuring would be inevitable," his experts warn in the paper. In other words: Greece would go bankrupt.
It remains unclear whether it would even be legally possible for Greece to depart from the euro zone. Legal experts believe it would also be necessary for the country to split from the European Union entirely in order to abandon the common currency. At the same time, it is questionable whether other members of the currency union would actually refuse to accept a unilateral exit from the euro zone by the government in Athens.

What is certain, according to the assessment of the German Finance Ministry, is that the measure would have a disastrous impact on the European economy.

"The currency conversion would lead to capital flight," they write. And Greece might see itself as forced to implement controls on the transfer of capital to stop the flight of funds out of the country. "This could not be reconciled with the fundamental freedoms instilled in the European internal market," the paper states. In addition, the country would also be cut off from capital markets for years to come.

In addition, the withdrawal of a country from the common currency union would "seriously damage faith in the functioning of the euro zone," the document continues. International investors would be forced to consider the possibility that further euro-zone members could withdraw in the future. "That would lead to contagion in the euro zone," the paper continues.

Banks at Risk

Moreover, should Athens turn its back on the common currency zone, it would have serious implications for the already wobbly banking sector, particularly in Greece itself. The change in currency "would consume the entire capital base of the banking system and the country's banks would be abruptly insolvent." Banks outside of Greece would suffer as well. "Credit institutions in Germany and elsewhere would be confronted with considerable losses on their outstanding debts," the paper reads.

The European Central Bank (ECB) would also feel the effects. The Frankfurt-based institution would be forced to "write down a significant portion of its claims as irrecoverable." In addition to its exposure to the banks, the ECB also owns large amounts of Greek state bonds, which it has purchased in recent months. Officials at the Finance Ministry estimate the total to be worth at least €40 billion ($58 billion) "Given its 27 percent share of ECB capital, Germany would bear the majority of the losses," the paper reads.

In short, a Greek withdrawal from the euro zone and an ensuing national default would be expensive for euro-zone countries and their taxpayers. Together with the International Monetary Fund, the EU member states have already pledged €110 billion ($159.5 billion) in aid to Athens -- half of which has already been paid out.

"Should the country become insolvent," the paper reads, "euro-zone countries would have to renounce a portion of their claims."

Another good article - let's hope they blow up first before going back to the Drachma. I wonder if they will also go back to the traditional transport, the donkey?

[fyrOM]

Macedonia Sends Protest Letter to Athens over Ambassador Treatment

http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/18147/1/

Thursday, 12 May 2011
Image

The Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MoFA) presented Greek Ambassador Alexandra Papadopoulou Wednesday with a protest note over the state's treatment of Macedonian diplomats in Greece.

The note follows yesterday's information that Macedonian General Consul in Solun, Tomislav Dimitrovski was stopped by the Greek police for an alleged traffic misdemeanor.

In a written statement following the MoFA meeting, Ambassador Papadopoulou says Dimitrovski violated several Greek traffic laws.

"The police let him go after a routine check-up. Dimitrovski did not even leave the car. I believe these incidents should not be given political connotation and used for creation of political tensions. Greece works towards good relations between the two countries at all levels", says Papadopulou.

Media reported that the incident occurred on a Solun highway, when Dimitrovski passed through a yellow traffic light, as claimed by the Greek police. The Macedonian diplomatic vehicle was then chased by police cars and motorbikes. When stopped, the consul was surrounded by armed policemen who proceeded to arrest him, vhich is a violation of the Vienna convention in regards to diplomats in a foreign country. Following 45 minutes of tense atmosphere, Dimitrovski managed to contact a Greek MoFA official, who intervened. The police fined Dimitrovski and afterwards let him go.

The fine itself is a violation as diplomats in a foreign country enjoy immunity, unless you are a Macedonian diplomat in Greece.

Are the Greeks getting a bit desperate in their anti-Macedonian feelings? All over a "yellow traffic light", really?

[George S.]

well fyrom they got nothing better to do.I know it's silly but we can have tit for tat & see how they like it.

[fyrOM]

IMF warns Europe’s debt crisis could still spread

http://www.mia.com.mk/default.aspx?vId=83654175&lId=2&pmId=504

Frankfurt, 12 May 2011 (MIA) - Despite bailouts for Greece, Ireland and Portugal, Europe’s debt crisis could still spread to core euro zone countries and the emerging economies of eastern Europe, the International Monetary Fund warned on Thursday.

The IMF said it stood ready to provide more aid to Greece if requested, though the country that triggered the sovereign debt crisis in 2009 still had plenty of untapped options for raising extra cash itself though privatizations.

“Contagion to the core euro area, and then onwards to emerging Europe, remains a tangible downside risk,” the global lender’s latest economic report on Europe said.

Finance ministers of the 17-nation single currency area are set to approve a €78 billion, or $111 billion, rescue plan for Portugal next Monday after Finland’s prime minister-in-waiting clinched a deal to ensure parliamentary approval of the package.

But markets are increasingly concerned that Greece may never be able to pay back its €327 billion debt pile and will have to restructure, forcing losses on investors with severe consequences in the euro zone and beyond.

Asked whether there could be new aid package to help Greece work through its fiscal recovery program, the IMF’s European department director, Antonio Borges, said the fund was open to the possibility.

“The Greeks have to take the initiative, and so far they have not approached us. The IMF stands ready” to provide additional support “as a matter of policy,” he told reporters.

However, Athens also had the potential to raise funds by selling state assets, with the €50 billion mentioned as a possible estimate of revenues from a privatization program “probably less than 20 percent of all the assets the Greeks could privatize.”

The semi-annual IMF report said peripheral members of the euro zone needed to make “unrelenting” efforts to overcome the debt crisis and prevent it spreading further.

It also urged the European Central Bank to tread carefully on further rises in interest rates after last month’s first increase since 2007, saying euro zone monetary policy could “afford to remain relatively accommodative.”

Borges said the program of austerity measures and structural reforms agreed a year ago was “probably the best thing that can happen” to Greece, though there was always the question of whether it was too ambitious.

Greece has implemented harsh cuts in public spending, public sector wages and pensions but has struggled to raise revenue due to a deep recession and chronic tax evasion. The government faces growing resistance to austerity, highlighted by a general strike on Wednesday.

Greek sovereign bond yields soared to fresh euro-era highs on a growing belief that euro-zone finance ministers will not deliver fresh aid for Athens at their monthly meeting next week. The yield on two-year Greek bonds rose to an eye-watering 27 percent.

By contrast, Portuguese and Irish yields eased after the Finnish deal on Thursday removed one key political uncertainty.

The euro-skeptical True Finns party, which scored big gains in last month’s general election by vehemently opposing the Portuguese bailout, said it would not take part in talks to form the next Finnish government.

The Washington-based fund’s views about Greece are being closely watched ahead of next month’s decision on whether Athens receives the next €12 billion tranche of its €110 billion E.U./I.M.F. bailout.

Ireland and Greece are already dependent on €52.5 billion of I.M.F. aid while Portugal is awaiting a €26-billion, three-year lifeline from the fund.

Banks in the troubled countries are being kept above water by unlimited E.C.B. liquidity, and the IMF said the central bank might need to extend that system again beyond June 12.

Financial markets and economists are overwhelmingly convinced that Greece will have to restructure its debt mountain and force investors to take losses.

But Borges said the IMF believed Greece was not bankrupt despite its high debt.

“All IMF programs are based on debt sustainability, so as long as a program is in place that means that the IMF believes Greek debt is sustainable,” he said.

I can't help feeling (a bit left field) it's all too deliberate - how can you F things up This badly? Could it be some (quite a few people) have been paid of huge amounts to crack the country and hand it over ownership of the assets to Western interests?

[julie]

the ownership of assets to the west - EU was formed , one world currency, so as to gain control and power over their member states knowingly to leave them in crippling debt. This is the EU you want Macedonia to join and change their name in the process, as some grand strategic move by a ball-less politician who is receiving renumeration for his efforts. This is why many people on this forum are cross with you, and have been trying to tell you. Macedonia stands for further partitioning and total loss of sovereignty, a name change , and we cease to exist. EU and NATO are the anti-christ , led by the world dominator of greed, control and power, and the cultural and ethnic genocide of Macedonia

[George S.]

joining the eu will mean partaking of the eu debt whether we like it or not.SThat is another reason not to join.There's been people that advocate prosperity when they join the eu but will that materialise as the eu is there to see what it can get for itself.

[DirtyCodingHabitz]

Why can't people wake up and realize that money=debt=slavery?

I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.

Thomas Jefferson, 3rd president of US (1743 - 1826).

Banking was conceived in iniquity and was born in sin. The Bankers own the earth. Take it away from them, but leave them the power to create deposits, and with the flick of the pen they will create enough deposits to buy it back again. However, take this power away from them, and all the great fortunes disappear, and they ought to disappear, for this would be a happier and better world to live in. But, if you wish to remain the slaves of Bankers and pay the cost of your own slavery, let them continue to create money and control credit.

Sir Josiah Stamp.

[George S.]

you know the us has written on their money in god whom we trust.Do you think it's done them any good?They are in debt to the tune of 14 trillion dollars half of that is owed to china.