Financial Crisis in Greece

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  • TrueMacedonian
    Senior Member
    • Jan 2009
    • 3820

    #46
    Brussels attacks Greece over false data



    Brussels attacks Greece over false data

    By Tony Barber in Brussels and Kerin Hope in Athens

    Published: January 13 2010 02:00 | Last updated: January 13 2010 02:00

    Greece was condemned by the European Commission yesterday for falsifying data on its public finances and allowing political pressures to obstruct the collection of accurate statistics.

    In a damning report published as the eurozone grapples with its worst financial crisis since the euro's launch in 1999, the Commission said figures from Greece were so unreliable that its budget deficit and public debt might be even higher than the government had claimed last October.

    At that time Greece estimated its 2009 deficit would be 12.5 per cent of gross domestic product, far above 3.7 per cent predicted in April. It revised its 2008 deficit up to 7.7 per cent from 5 per cent.

    The data shocked and angered Greece's 15 eurozone partners and prompted swift downgrades of Greek debt as well as an increase in the premium demanded by financial markets to buy Greek bonds.

    The socialist government is promising to cut sharply its deficit to 3 per cent or less by 2012 but financial markets question whether it can introduce the drastic austerity measures implied by such a target without sparking labour unrest and social disorder.

    The Greek finance ministry said the Commission report reflected the app-roach of previous governments, not the current one. "We're in the process of changing the way statistics are collected and analysed," it said.

    Separately, an International Monetary Fund technical team arrived in Athens yesterday in response to a Greek request for help with a radical overhaul of the tax system due to be completed in March.

    "There is absolutely nothing on the agenda about loans and borrowing [from the IMF]," the ministry said. It dismissed speculation the government might turn to the IMF for assistance if the public finances deteriorated.

    The Commission, which is responsible for upholding the eurozone's fiscal rules, made clear in its report that it had next to no faith in Greek statistics. "The current set-up does not guarantee the independence, integrity and accountability of the national statistical authorities," it said.

    The Commission denoun-ced "poor co-operation and lack of clear responsibilities between several Greek institutions and services . . . diffuse personal responsibilities, ambiguous empowerment of officials, absence of written instruction and documentation, which leave the quality of fiscal statistics subject to political pressures and electoral cycles".

    The report listed categories in which, it said, Greece had deliberately mis-reported data last year, including revenues from abolished extra-budgetary accounts, swaps write-offs, adjustment for interest payments, European Union financial grants and hospital liabilities. Hundreds of millions of euros were involved in each case.


    Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!

    Comment

    • TrueMacedonian
      Senior Member
      • Jan 2009
      • 3820

      #47
      interactive investor is a low cost, award winning, online investment platform enabling you to easily manage shares, funds, SIPPs, ISAs & more.


      Greece says no skeletons in closet

      BERLIN, Jan 12 (Reuters) - Greek Finance Minister George Papaconstantinou told a German newspaper on Tuesday that Greece had no more "skeletons in the closet" and the country had a solid basis for cutting its deficit.
      "We have no more skeletons in the closet ... we now have a solid basis to reduce our deficit in coming years. We will reduce our deficit to under 3 percent of GDP by 2012," he told Handelsblatt daily.
      He also said Greece had to reform its tax and pension system and that it did not need a bailout.


      (Writing by Madeline Chambers) Keywords: GREECE FINMIN/SKELETONS ([email protected]; +49 30 2888 5230; Reuters Messaging: [email protected])


      Someones in denial in modern "greece"
      Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!

      Comment

      • Risto the Great
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 15659

        #48
        Greece simply cannot be relied upon to be truthful.
        The worst part of it is the many Greek citizens who are sniggering saying "ha ha, we fooled them".
        Risto the Great
        MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
        "Holding my breath for the revolution."

        Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

        Comment

        • Soldier of Macedon
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 13675

          #49
          Of course they are, those same type of citizens have been doing it to their idiot sponsors of Europe for the last 200 years.
          In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

          Comment

          • Dejan
            Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 590

            #50
            Dedo bozhe works in mysterious ways. These pretenders are are slowly being punished
            You want Macedonia? Come and take it from my blood!

            A prosperous, independent and free Macedonia for Macedonians will be the ultimate revenge to our enemies.

            Comment

            • Bill77
              Senior Member
              • Oct 2009
              • 4545

              #51
              Originally posted by TrueMacedonian View Post
              http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/24806744-f...44feabdc0.html

              Brussels attacks Greece over false data


              The Greek finance ministry said the Commission report reflected the app-roach of previous governments, not the current one. "We're in the process of changing the way statistics are collected and analysed," it said.
              Its got nothing to do with your Goverments, its your Race. Its the way your education system works. Put blinkers on everyone, lie and steal, and if anyone talks against it, sue them and call them Propagandist. Go on Fatso, label my comments Bullshit again.
              http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=120873#post120873

              Comment

              • Risto the Great
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 15659

                #52
                Greek saying:
                You must work to live, but you must steal to have something.
                Risto the Great
                MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                Comment

                • Prolet
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2009
                  • 5241

                  #53
                  Risto, Is that for real?
                  МАКЕДОНЕЦ си кога кавал ќе ти ја распара душата,зурла ќе ти го раскине срцето,кога секое влакно од кожата ќе ти се наежи кога ќе видиш шеснаесеткрако сонце,кога до коска ќе те заболи кога ќе слушнеш ПЈРМ,кога немаш ни за леб,а полн си во душата затоа што ја сакаш МАКЕДОНИЈА. МАКЕДОНИЈА во срце те носиме.

                  Comment

                  • TrueMacedonian
                    Senior Member
                    • Jan 2009
                    • 3820

                    #54


                    Trichet Dismisses Greece Speculation; Merkel Sounds Alarm

                    By BRIAN BLACKSTONE
                    FRANKFURT—European Central Bank President Jean-Claude Trichet said the ECB isn't willing to grant Greece special treatment to alleviate the country's economic turmoil even as Athens's latest plan to deal with the crisis was met with skepticism by investors.

                    "No government or state can expect from us any special treatment," Mr. Trichet said following the European Central Bank's monthly meeting. The comments, which came as the ECB kept its key lending rate unchanged at 1%, helped push the cost of insuring Greek sovereign debt against default to a record.

                    Greek Prime Minister George Papandreou, meanwhile, tried again to ease concerns about the country's finances, pledging to trim Greece's budget deficit to 2.8% of gross domestic product by the end of 2012 from an estimated 12.7% of gross domestic product in 2009. Yet Greek bond prices declined, as investors remained doubtful that the government will be able to push through the deep cuts in public-sector spending that would be necessary to achieve that goal.

                    Mr. Papandreou said there is "no time to lose" when fixing the public finances.

                    "It is our commitment to leave behind the giant deficits of the past," he said in a government cabinet meeting. "We will do whatever we need to to achieve our targets."

                    Greece has been under intense scrutiny by the European Union, the markets and credit-rating agencies since it revealed late last year that its budget deficit would hit 12.7% of GDP, four times the EU's 3% limit.

                    Moody's Investors Service, which last month joined the other two major agencies in cutting Greece's debt rating, warned Wednesday that Greece, along with high-debt Portugal, risks a "slow death" from low competitiveness as a rising share of their countries' wealth goes to debt repayment.

                    Adding to the uncertainty, German Chancellor Angela Merkel delivered the starkest warning yet by a European leader about the repercussions of the crisis, predicting that Greece and other high-deficit countries have thrust the euro "in a very difficult phase for the coming years." The euro was down 0.3% against the dollar, at $1.4475.
                    The ECB doesn't provide direct aid to individual members of the 16-member euro zone. But it does provide Greece and other countries with indirect support through its lending facilities, which allow Greek commercial banks—heavy owners of Greek sovereign debt—to use those bonds as collateral to obtain inexpensive central-bank credit.

                    The ECB is due to go back to its old collateral policy at year-end. If Greek government debt gets downgraded further, it risks becoming ineligible as ECB collateral when the rules that were in place before the financial crisis are reinstated. "We will not change our collateral framework for the sake of any individual country," Mr. Trichet said.

                    He dismissed speculation in the financial markets that Greece's soaring budget deficit will eventually force it to exit the EU and euro system, calling it "an absurd hypothesis." One day earlier, Mr. Papandreou said there was "no chance" Greece will exit the euro.

                    Mr. Trichet's comments came after a regular meeting of the ECB's governing council. The ECB kept its key lending rate unchanged at the record low of 1%, as expected. Officials are unlikely to raise rates for many months, economists say. Though the euro zone grew in the third quarter after more than a year of output declines, struggling countries like Greece and Ireland still face painful adjustments to their economies and state finances. In addition, Germany's recovery appears to have stalled in the fourth quarter.

                    Mr. Trichet repeated prior warnings of a "bumpy road" for the region's recovery, and said there is no risk of inflation. He specifically called on Greece and Ireland to take steps to improve their competitiveness.

                    The ECB president also distanced himself from a controversial paper released last month by the ECB. The document, written by the ECB's legal counsel, addressed the possibility of exiting the euro. Though it concluded that the possibility is next to zero, the fact that someone at the ECB even looked into the subject created a stir.

                    Mr. Trichet ticked off the benefits of euro membership, including lower interest rates to finance external deficits and being part of a "credible" currency.

                    —Andrea Thomas and Alkman Granitsas
                    contributed to this article.
                    Write to Brian Blackstone at [email protected]
                    Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!

                    Comment

                    • Risto the Great
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 15659

                      #55
                      Originally posted by Prolet View Post
                      Risto, Is that for real?
                      Yes!
                      Ask a Greek.

                      But I don't think it means to steal bread ... like what they are going to have to do once they have the life taxed out of them shortly.
                      Risto the Great
                      MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                      "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                      Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                      Comment

                      • Risto the Great
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 15659

                        #56
                        Originally posted by TrueMacedonian View Post
                        Greece has been under intense scrutiny by the European Union, the markets and credit-rating agencies since it revealed late last year that its budget deficit would hit 12.7% of GDP, four times the EU's 3% limit.

                        Moody's Investors Service, which last month joined the other two major agencies in cutting Greece's debt rating, warned Wednesday that Greece, along with high-debt Portugal, risks a "slow death" from low competitiveness as a rising share of their countries' wealth goes to debt repayment.

                        Adding to the uncertainty, German Chancellor Angela Merkel delivered the starkest warning yet by a European leader about the repercussions of the crisis, predicting that Greece and other high-deficit countries have thrust the euro "in a very difficult phase for the coming years." The euro was down 0.3% against the dollar, at $1.4475.
                        The ECB doesn't provide direct aid to individual members of the 16-member euro zone. But it does provide Greece and other countries with indirect support through its lending facilities, which allow Greek commercial banks—heavy owners of Greek sovereign debt—to use those bonds as collateral to obtain inexpensive central-bank credit
                        From memory, this is the first time the Euro has ever taken a hit.

                        Good to see Greece at the forefront.
                        I can still see Dora saying "We are the birthplace of foreign debt you know".
                        Risto the Great
                        MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                        "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                        Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                        Comment

                        • Pelister
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 2742

                          #57
                          These new Greeks are full of shite. They always have been, and continue to be.

                          Comment

                          • TrueMacedonian
                            Senior Member
                            • Jan 2009
                            • 3820

                            #58
                            Europe Lays Plans for How to Bail Out Greece, NY Times article

                            After a decade of debt-fueled profligacy, Greece is confronting what amounts to a run on the bank, and European leaders are quietly weighing what to do.


                            Europe Lays Plans for How to Bail Out Greece

                            By STEPHEN CASTLE and MATTHEW SALTMARSH
                            Published: January 28, 2010
                            BRUSSELS — France, Germany and other European countries have begun discussing privately how they can come to the aid of fellow euro-zone member Greece, as doubts intensify over the country’s ability to get its budget under control.

                            Despite public attempts to discourage such expectations, discussions are under way, although the shape or scale of a possible bailout package has yet to be determined, according to officials in several capitals, all speaking on condition of anonymity.

                            “Greece failing is not an option and lots of people think that we will have to intervene at some stage,” said a euro-zone finance official, who was not permitted to speak publicly because of the sensitivity of the matter. “It doesn’t have to happen, and we hope it won’t, but it would be better than seeing a default.”

                            As a condition of any aid package, the Greek government led by Prime Minister George Papandreou, a Socialist, would be asked to provide a more detailed program to bring the country’s deficit of 12.7 percent of gross domestic product under control. European Union rules call for a maximum of 3 percent of G.D.P. Officials insist that any bailout must not put into doubt the credibility of the euro itself.

                            Greece’s budget crisis poses a big new test for the common currency and has even led to speculation that the country might be forced out of the euro zone, a suggestion that has been dismissed in Athens and other capitals.

                            The latest moves reflect a continuing skepticism among euro-zone members over the practicality of the plans put forward so far by the Greek government. It wants to reduce the deficit to 3 percent of G.D.P. by 2012, an objective described as unrealistic by one European diplomat, speaking on condition of anonymity. These plans are to be assessed by the European Commission early next month. A commission spokeswoman, Amelia Torres, declined Thursday to comment.

                            Greece’s deficit is four times the E.U.’s limit, while the country’s debt amounts to 113 percent of G.D.P. But officials insist that, because Greece is not one of the euro-zone’s larger economies, the problems created by its dire public finances can be absorbed.

                            The mechanism of any E.U.-sponsored bailout would be complex since there is doubt as to whether it is permitted under the Union’s governing treaty.

                            One option, deemed unlikely, would be issuing a sovereign bond for the entire, 16-nation euro area. That would probably require complex legal changes among members, which would be time-consuming.

                            Nevertheless, the Socialist leader in the European Parliament, Martin Schulz, on Thursday called on the commission to bring forward proposals to introduce eurobonds. “Now is the time for us to stand shoulder-to-shoulder with Greece — not to abandon the country to the mercy of world markets,” he said.

                            Alternatively, there would be few legal impediments to bilateral aid being offered by member states from the euro zone. How that money would be raised and expedited has yet to be determined.

                            Another official said that there had been no discussion yet on “burden-sharing” — how much each member would be expected to contribute — although the assumption in the market is that Germany and France, as the largest economies, would bear the brunt of any financing.

                            Yet another alternative might be to speed up the payment of E.U. development aid for poor regions already due to be paid during the period 2007-13. That could help Greece bolster its public finances in the short term and give it financial breathing space.

                            Talks are likely to intensify ahead of an E.U. summit meeting on Feb. 11 in Brussels. This was called to discuss longer-term plans to revitalize the European economy but risks being overwhelmed by the Greek crisis.

                            Since coming into office in October, the government of Mr. Papandreou has presented a plan to bring the deficit down by freezing public sector wages, trimming the civil service and increasing taxes. But as Mr. Papandreou and his finance minister, George Papaconstantinou made the rounds at the World Economic Forum at Davos, Switzerland, on Thursday, the message did not seem to be getting across. The spread on benchmark 10-year Greek bonds — the difference in yield — over the equivalent German bonds grew to 3.73 percentage points Thursday, the widest level since the inception of the euro.

                            On Monday, Greece was able to raise €8 billion, or $11.2 billion, more than twice its €3 billion target. But it priced the five-year bonds at a hefty premium of 3.50 percentage points over the benchmark rate, which meant it will be paying a yield of about 6.22 percent.

                            During an interview this week, Mr. Papaconstantinou acknowledged that these high rates were punitive but asked that investors keep faith in his government’s plan to tackle Greece’s intractable problems of a bloated, inefficient state and a private sector that has long been unwilling to pay the taxes to finance it.

                            “Only a center-left government can do this,” he said, sitting in his spacious art-bedecked office in Athens. “The markets should trust us not because they believe in the global good but because the return on Greek debt is good.”

                            Greece needs to raise at least €53 billion this year, much of it this spring. The Greek debt management agency has not issued a calendar of 2010 bond issues. But analysts expect the country to try to sell a 10-year bond next month. The success of that sale now looks like it may become the test of whether the country will require help from its neighbors.

                            The crisis erupted after the new Greek government revealed that statistics provided under the previous administration were seriously flawed.

                            The European Commission is expected to propose during the next few weeks that the E.U.’s statistical service be granted new powers to audit figures in member states.

                            The Greek government faces a hugely complex task in trying to reassure the markets that it will get its finances under control, while calming public fears about potentially draconian budget cuts.

                            During the interview, Mr. Papaconstantinou said he would be traveling to the United States and Asia in an attempt to attract new investors. But the Finance Ministry has denied reports that it is trying to persuade China to purchase as much as €25 billion in government bonds.

                            “There is certainly an appetite for euro denominated assets in Asia,” said Miranda Xafa, a former official at the International Monetary Fund who now works at IJ Partners, a fund company based in Geneva. “But the government needs to show that it is meeting its targets. The window is very narrow.”

                            And while other peripheral countries like Ireland have also seen the cost of their debt insurance increase this week, the view within Europe seems to be that it is Greece that is most at risk.

                            “This is the first full scale test” of European monetary union, said Gilles Moëc, a European economist for Deutsche Bank.

                            The question of whether the I.M.F.might become involved in a bailout appears to have divided European governments. Some countries would prefer to see a regional resolution, while others see no problem in working with the supranational lender.
                            Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!

                            Comment

                            • makedonin
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 1668

                              #59
                              German thoughts about the Greek problems

                              I find it amusing. Here is it google translated:

                              Greece is bad, sooooo bad. The national debt is exorbitantly high, the risk premiums on their government bonds are, too. And the expectations that Athens under its own power comes back on its feet (at least without the GDP figures for hair) to hang sooooo deep.
                              Greece must be helped, it whispers through the EU capitals. Let's go Greece against the wall are also other shaky euro countries such as Portugal in danger, they say. And so is currently geheimverhandelt on a rescue package that it squeaks.
                              In Greece can not be helped partout. And there are eight good reasons.

                              1. The Greeks, as such, needs no help, he is accustomed to hardship. Already known to the Spartans led a frugal life. Your reputation in history is so legendary. The modern Greeks have therefore a unique opportunity to enter as 2.0 in Spartans history. Also: If it was 300 Spartans at Thermopylae to stop an Iranian dominance, then a couple of debtor to the modern Greeks are likely to be hardly a problem.
                              2. The Greeks, as such, it is said, is negotiating with the Chinese devisenschweren so that they save him from the national bankruptcy. This is to be welcomed. Firstly, we do not have to spend billions to revive the sick man on the Mediterranean again. Secondly, the Chinese would then enter a massive in Greece, with banks and some Olivenpressereien. Greece is the cradle of democracy. To expose the communist capitalist firm in the Middle Kingdom in Greece, they would inevitably become infected with the democratic virus. In this respect, the Greek national bankruptcy is presumably a particularly insidious strategy of the West to democratize China. Also: Did not make it, the Chinese, Sinisi, the Mongol conquerors of their empire? In the future, just Hellenized the Chinese.
                              3. Anyone who has spent his vacation on the islands of Greece, is in despair about the Greek cuisine. Always there Choriatiki (peasant salad) and souvlaki (pork skewers), souvlaki and Choriatiki. Sometimes there are moussaka, but always warm. An introduction to the Chinese people in Greece would have the advantage that German sailors could taste the future in the port of Naoussa on Paros tavernas next to the Greek monotony and dim sum.
                              4. The Greeks claim to this day, to have been the 2004 football European Championship. This presentation is demonstrably false, and finally its national team coach Otto Rehhagel, the German was. Without him, the blue-white team would not even be able to overcome Wacker Burghausen. As long as such holds the Greeks on this legend, there are reasons of self-evident that we Germans come to his aid.
                              5. The Greek is also believed to be ancient compatriot Pythagoras was the founder of mathematics, especially geometry. This means the enlightened Europeans know that Pythagoras had plagiarized by the ancient Egyptians. It is undisputed, however, that the Greek is a numerical fox. Joining the euro for example, he extracted plenty, as he doctored his national budgets and for example, illegal employment and prostitution added to GDP. Brussels was so stupid not to notice it for long. If you are so beautiful makes for joining the euro, which creates it too loosely, wegzurechnen national bankruptcy. And therefore we do not help the Greeks, but all build on their mathematical creativity.
                              6. For almost 20 years the Greeks with its neighbors, the Macedonians had played. Just because there are in his country, a region called Macedonia, did not want to call it's neighbor Macedonia. For the Greeks had forced the UN to give the residents in the north of the state name "Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia '. But even for this Greek bitching they should refused and to be punished with no aid. These to be so unless it (*Greece) changes its official state name to "Through statistical tricks the euro surreptitiously having Hellenic Republic". Then we would give our money.
                              7. The Greeks could be helped, but only with appropriate compensation. Commodities such as gas or oil, he did not offer, we prefer to relate the olive oil from Italy, the Acropolis sanitating Object we do not want - there is not much for the barter trade. The Greeks, however, has beautiful islands such as Corfu and Mykonos (only the local cuisine is not good to hear man). The deal could therefore read as follows: Per Billion German aid comes from the Greek, an idyllic island to us. Since the Greeks, however, national pride has and we have given up the matter with our German territorial claims, will probably not happen.
                              8. We can not help the Greeks alone, because solidarity is completely out of fashion. Vanguard of this trend is once again the FDP. She just came to crisis-German hoteliers have come to the rescue and has - through governance, regulatory policy enforced ago - a reduced rate of VAT on hotel accommodation. Now the public outcry is great, the FDP approval ratings slipping off the main NRW election to the basement, as party vice Pinkwart (NRW) is proposing to reap the hotelier gift again. Hoteliers arms!

                              You will find none of these arguments hold water? Well, then we help the Greeks just yet.
                              Andreas Theyssen manages the departmental policy of FTD. He writes every other Monday at this point.


                              By the way, the voting on the side says:

                              Should we help Greece:

                              Answear 1:
                              Never ever
                              63%


                              Answear 2:
                              We must help
                              11%

                              Answear 3:
                              Only if really unavoidable:
                              26%

                              2491 Votes
                              Last edited by makedonin; 02-01-2010, 01:07 PM.
                              To enquire after the impression behind an idea is the way to remove disputes concerning nature and reality.

                              Comment

                              • Bratot
                                Senior Member
                                • Sep 2008
                                • 2855

                                #60
                                LOL

                                this is awesome!
                                The purpose of the media is not to make you to think that the name must be changed, but to get you into debate - what name would suit us! - Bratot

                                Comment

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