Financial Crisis in Greece

[Spartan]

If you can dish it, learn to take it

Like I said....be a man

Turks occupy lands way outside their ancestral homeland, and they werent aquired diplomatically....youve done well for yourselves

Dont play the victim card though, its pathtic and womanlike.

[Onur]

Turks occupy lands way outside their ancestral homeland, and they werent aquired diplomatically....youve done well for yourselves

Owww Spartan c`mooonn...

occupied but where and when? Anatolia at 11th century or Balkans at 14th century? Oh yes, you are right man, we should try diplomacy! Maybe we could ask the UN, NATO or EU human rights commission at 11th century, right?

While i spoke about Greek education, I feel like this "Turks occupy lands" sentence came out from that Greek history books for primary schools


Spartan, you aware that we are talking about 1940s and 1970s, while you on the other hand you speak about medieval times???!!!
We have a right to judge and condemn the events of 30-60 years ago but i don't think same equals for you to judge the events of 11th century. Thats why i mentioned about Greek education already. You guys gotta give up doing this anymore.

[Spartan]

^^Thats an improvement
At least you arent crying this time

occupied but where and when? Anatolia at 11th century or Balkans at 14th century?

You pick!
Were those lands empty when your ancestors finally arrived there?

While i spoke about Greek education, I feel like this "Turks occupy lands" sentence came out from that Greek history books for primary schools

Im educated in North America

[Soldier of Macedon]

Still, what you posted was irrelevant to the topic........

No, it was relevant, because there is still an indirect relation to what he posted as it demonstrates the 'capability of the Greeks' to do such things to other people, as Risto pointed out.

I feel that you guys can adequately handle whatevr you consider to be lies from Sportster without my involvement.

That's not the point. You're Greek, like he is, you word has a different meaning and can lend weight to an argument in support of normality. Just say you don't want to stop your kinsman from behaving like a racist, simple.

My interjection in this thread was directed at Onur......

Of course it was, isn't it everywhere else? Why didn't you interject when your kinsman was behaving like a bafoon, rather than attacking 'the Turk' for providing corroborative evidence of the atrocities Greeks have been prepared to (and did) commit?

However, having to read about how Greeks are 'arvanovlachs' and albanians, 'cant do anything on our own', 'are created', how happy everyone is at the current state of affairs ain Greece, and other such things that many of the newer members preach everytime i log on has taken its toll on me after these last couple years. How can I defend people who believe such things about my country, and insult Greeks to the degree they are insulted here?

So that is why you said nothing to Sportster? I was the one who had the main dialogue with him. Where were you to assist me, like I have assisted you?

Do you blame Macedonians for feeling the way they do towards Greece? I mean look, in the 21st century, the racists that lead your people STILL cause problems for Macedonians, still deny their existence, still deny them schools, still deny their identity. What did you expect? What do Macedonians do to Greeks to make them suffer? Call ourselves Macedonians? All of these problems stem from the Greek side, all of them, so please Spartan, don't expect anybody to shed a tear for Greece here. People like you can make a difference in our perceptions, but when you stay silent while your kinsmen run rampant with their racism, then in many respects you are no better than they are. You should have at least stepped in on my behalf, but you didn't.

For instance, I disagree with Bill, and he starts a 'Spartans are Homos' thread, and calling my ancestors Albanian. I didnt complain or cry, but did anyone say anything?

I think I recall the thread, show me the link so I can see where there is anything he said or posted that isn't true.

You yourself have stated that you dont visit Greek forums, so it may be hard for you to understand how it is for me on a Macedonian forum.

Mate, I understand perfectly, but I don't think you understand. You are here to see our reasoning, here, most people DO call you Greeks. Find me 1 person that refers to my people as Macedonians on a Greek forum, even a moderate one. Can you?

Anyways, just because I am silent, doesnt mean i condone anything.

Yes it does. I consider you a leader in this respect, you should be the leading voice of the Greeks here, show em' how it's done, not stay in silent glee that one of your own is 'giving it back' to the Macedonians.

I honestly believed when I signed up on this forum that the situation between Greeks and Macies was salvagable....I see now I was naive to think so, as their is much hatred which I dont see going away anytime soon.

And how does your silence contribute to this? Think about it.

I still hope one day, god willing, you and I can meet in Europe and show each other our respective homelands as we have talked about in the past....even if it was in jest at first.

So do I, Spartan, I will take you to Macedonia and everybody will refer to you and respect you as a Greeks. Can you ensure the same for me as a Macedonian in Greece? Will you stand by my side when one of your friends or cousins says get this 'Slav' out of my face?

[Sovius]

Were those lands empty when your ancestors finally arrived there?

Spartan, you may want to read this genetic study regarding Anatolian populations. The study, like others, shows a far more complex intermixture of peoples in the region over a number of different eras than the 19th Century Nationalist Model erroneously projects. Language doesn’t necessarily convey biological ancestry. It’s interesting to note that there may be a significant minority population descended from the Phrygians in the region. There’s even people living in the area that appear to be descended from the Hittites from what I’ve read in studies.

http://hpgl.stanford.edu/publications/HG_2004_v114_p127-148.pdf

J1 = 9% - Typical amongst people from the Arabian Peninsula.
J2 = 24% - Typical amongst Near Eastern and Western Asia peoples.
R1a = 6.9% - Typical of Eastern Europeans and Central Asians
I = 5.3% - Typical of Central Europeans and Balkan populations
R1b = 14.7% -Typical of Central Asia and Western Europeans
G = 10.9% - Typical of people from the Caucasus
E1b1b = 11.3% - Typical amongst populations of the Balkans.
N = 3.8% - Typical of Siberian and Altaic populations
T = 2.5% - Typical of Mediterranean and South Asian populations
K = 4.5% - Typical of Asian populations.
L = 4.2% - Typical of Indian Subcontinent and Khorasan populations.
Q = 1.9% - Typical of Northern Altaic populations.

I think oversimplification tends to lead to unrealistic perceptions regarding other peoples. You guys could very well be related. Now, that would be a wake up call.

[Spartan]

No, it was relevant, because there is still an indirect relation to what he posted as it demonstrates the 'capability of the Greeks' to do such things to other people, as Risto pointed out.

Fair enough, but i respectfully disagree.

That's not the point. You're Greek, like he is, you word has a different meaning and can lend weight to an argument in support of normality. Just say you don't want to stop your kinsman from behaving like a racist, simple.

Firstly, I dont consider northern greeks are my kinsmen, and how he acts is not my concern, although I will agree that he wasnt being very nice. Still, I dont see why I am obligated to point this out to him, when you guys have been battling it out on the internet for years and are perfectly capable of handling such buffoonery.

Of course it was, isn't it everywhere else? Why didn't you interject when your kinsman was behaving like a bafoon, rather than attacking 'the Turk' for providing corroborative evidence of the atrocities Greeks have been prepared to (and did) commit?

Like I said, I felt it was irrelevant to the 'napalm' discussion, and stated so. Also, i would hardly call it an 'attack ', I merely asked if it was the right link.

So that is why you said nothing to Sportster? I was the one who had the main dialogue with him. Where were you to assist me, like I have assisted you?

Assist you with what?
You ripped him a new asshole, and then banned him.
What would you have me do?

Do you blame Macedonians for feeling the way they do towards Greece?

Not at all
Do you blame Greeks for feeling the way they do against Turks?

I mean look, in the 21st century, the racists that lead your people STILL cause problems for Macedonians, still deny their existence, still deny them schools, still deny their identity. What did you expect?

Exactly what I read daily on this forum.
I have tough skin, but do you actually expect me to defend people who are of the opinion of many members of this site in regards to my heritage?

What do Macedonians do to Greeks to make them suffer? Call ourselves Macedonians? All of these problems stem from the Greek side, all of them, so please Spartan, don't expect anybody to shed a tear for Greece here.

I dont, but by the same token, dont expect me to enjoy some of the stuff I read. I dont deny the Macedonians anything, yet all Greeks are referred to as Albanians and vlachs on this forum. Should this sit well with me?

People like you can make a difference in our perceptions, but when you stay silent while your kinsmen run rampant with their racism, then in many respects you are no better than they are.

At least I am fair though SoM.
When your kinsman are running rampant with their racism, I stay silent as well. If you think I am no better than the Greeks who have been banned from this forum, than what can I say?
I respect your name, and history and have always done so.
My posts on this forum are almost always about Greeks, and defending some points I have interest in, or am passionate about. I have never posted negatively about Macedonians

I think I recall the thread, show me the link so I can see where there is anything he said or posted that isn't true.

Listen brother, Im not into crying and whining. I merely brought this up as an example. What Bill posted was true, im not disputing that. Its the timing of it that rubbed me the wrong way.
If I had a disagreement with say... Bratot, about EU politics and it got heated, and 2 minutes later proceeded to post an "Alexander was a Homo" thread, how would that go over I wonder?

Mate, I understand perfectly, but I don't think you understand. You are here to see our reasoning, here, most people DO call you Greeks. Find me 1 person that refers to my people as Macedonians on a Greek forum, even a moderate one. Can you?

I doubt it.
The difference is you choose not to read it, I do.
I will also fully admit that Greeks are referred to as such for the most part on this forum, but when you consider the opinions following the use of the word "Greek", its a bit of a consilation.

Yes it does. I consider you a leader in this respect, you should be the leading voice of the Greeks here, show em' how it's done,

If you recall Ive had more than a few arguments with other Greeks on this forum in its early days . Maybe not of late, but I have.

not stay in silent glee that one of your own is 'giving it back' to the Macedonians.

You are mistaken here my friend.
No 'glee' in the equation.

So do I, Spartan, I will take you to Macedonia and everybody will refer to you and respect you as a Greeks. Can you ensure the same for me as a Macedonian in Greece? Will you stand by my side when one of your friends or cousins says get this 'Slav' out of my face?

I am a man of honour if that is what you're asking.

[Spartan]

I think oversimplification tends to lead to unrealistic perceptions regarding other peoples. You guys could very well be related. Now, that would be a wake up call.

Obviously people are very mixed, I dont doubt this.
The fact that we all could have a variety of different 'relatives' is undeniable.

[Bill77]

Spartan, i am confused. Which is why at times i don't know how to comunicate with you. Lets look at a few recent comments mate. But keep in mind i am not trying to be a smart ass or want to start a verbal war with you.

Firstly, I dont consider northern greeks are my kinsmen.

You may feel this way, but what the northern greeks do or say does efect your kinsmen, (who ever they may be). They share the same international border, same government, same language. If there was a war, your kinsman will be fighting side by side with these northerners for the same cause. So don't distance your self when it suits.

yet my people are referred to as Albanians and vlachs on thisw forum. Should this sit well with me?

well mabe just the Northern greeks are Albanians and Vlachs who are not your kinsmen. would that ofend you if we single them out only. Mabe you can eplain ethnicly what seperates your people from the north.

So if we continue to prove what modern Greeks (excluding your kinsman) are I don't think it should bother you after what you stated below,

I have tough skin

But then again the more i read, i stat scatching my head again,

What Bill posted was true, im not disputing that. Its the timing of it that rubbed me the wrong way.

But this made me laugh

You ripped him a new asshole, and then banned him

[Bill77]

Hurry up Spartan, your reply is taking forever lol

[Spartan]

You may feel this way, but what the northern greeks do or say does efect your kinsmen,

How?

They share the same international border, same government, same language. If there was a war, your kinsman will be fighting side by side with these northerners for the same cause.

I agree
We belong to the same nation.

So don't distance your self when it suits.

Dont tell me what to do.
I have been consistant with this 'distance' my whole time on this forum, and in my life. Ask around.
I dont understand this 'when it suits'.

well mabe just the Northern greeks are Albanians and Vlachs who are not your kinsmen.

Maybe, I dont really understand your point here.

would that ofend you if we single them out only.

Why would it offend me?

Mabe you can eplain ethnicly what seperates your people from the north.

Different mix of people from the south to the north.

So if we continue to prove what modern Greeks (excluding your kinsman) are I don't think it should bother you after what you stated below,

ok

But then again the more i read, i stat scatching my head again,

Bill, I have developed a bald spot reading the evolution of your charachter since you first joined the MTO.

But this made me laugh

[Bill77]

How?

"How" does what the northern greeks do or say efect your kinsmen! well you answered your own question in your next line,

We belong to the same nation

Therefor,

If there was a war, your kinsman will be fighting side by side with these northerners for the same cause.

so like it or not, What these northern greeks say or do represents mabe not your pesonal view, but the whole of the Greek nation. Until yourself and your kinsman react to the northern scum comments and actions, the southerners are part of the problem.

[Spartan]

so like it or not, What these northern greeks say or do represents mabe not your pesonal view, but the whole of the Greek nation.

I disagree.
I am part of the greek nation, yet may disagree (depending on what they say or do) with what northern greeks say or do.

Until yourself and your kinsman react to the northern scum comments and actions, the southerners are part of the problem.

But its not my problem.

[Bill77]

.Dont tell me what to do.

Don't tell me not to tell you what to do. Now this is school yard shit.

.I have been consistant with this 'distance' my whole time on this forum, and in my life. Ask around.
I dont understand this 'when it suits'.

Yes i don't dought you have been consistant with distancing your self from those dirty northern bastards. I am certain its only skin deep though. Why do i think that? well when we have people like sportster come along, you distance yourself (so would i) but if we were to speak anything negetive, You become irate or should i say it does not sit well with you. If you Spartans are a diferant breed, a more pure race than the north that are mixed Albanians and vlachs, then you have nothing to be concerned about when geeks are called Albanians and Vlachs etc.

Bill, I have developed a bald spot reading the evolution of your charachter since you first joined the MTO.

Now thats funny again. I like it

But to save you from any further hair loss lol, this is how it is,
Personaly, i don't have a thick skin like yourself, (i think its quite evident and not realy news) but in saying this, i will not use my typical rant towads you because i do see something diferant in you compared to the rest. And what i mean by rest, is not a Greek thing. Macedonians have and will cop it aswell. Its just that, i don't percieve you to be as what others do. The longer i've spent here, the thoughts on a person changes. Just like yourself, i'm reading the evolution of your charachter since i first joined.

Secondly, you should expect me to be angry and you should expect some posts to be a bitter pill to swollow. Afterall we are in a Macedonian thread and things are tough between our two countries. One day we might be able to talk about friendship just like we do with the Turks.

[Bij]

aw a lovers quarrel. how cute

[Bill77]

aw a lovers quarrel. how cute

Yeh.... Spartan and i like it raugh. It makes the making up more pleasurable.

There is a song that i can't quite remember what its called, but the lyrics go something like "The best part of breaking up is the making up" just adds more spice to the sex. And you can forget about any sex Spartan, its not on.