Financial Crisis in Greece

[Onur]

Onur, Thats because the Arabs use the Wahhabi version on Islam which is far more radical and not peaceful at all. Did you know that Kemal Mustafa Ataturk's parents are from Centar Zhupa which is very close to Debar? Thats where Ataturk's memorial house is being built, either way Ataturk has done alot for Turkey and gained alot of respect from the others.

Turkey has every right to join the EU, i think the countries there wont allow it because Turkey is a country of 70 million people and it has the ability to rip the EU Economy to shreds, some say that it will lead to mass immigration of Turkey to the EU but the Turks are already in the EU just look at Germany,UK,Belgium,France,Austria,Italy,Switzerlan d etc there are many Turks there.

What do you think of the US Supreme Court recently approving the Armenian Genocide Bill? The Turkish Ambassador was recalled to Ankara.

Yes, thats true. Sadly the children of the ancient Persians, today`s Iranians forgot Rumi`s teachings and gone in fanatic way too


Ah yes, ofc i know Ataturk`s parents are from Macedonia, Debar. He born in Salonika but he has gone to Bitola to enter military school.

I posted the pictures of that school here;
http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=46350



And I must say, When i look at his pictures, he definitely looks like half Macedonian and half Turk. Maybe more of a Macedonian, hehe


Ataturk`s wax sculptor(exact reproduction of his appearance) at Madame Tussauds museum in London;







His identity is not a problem for us though, since ethnicity has never been a problem for Turkish people, its mostly our mindset and general point of view makes us Turks and Ataturk served us most, so we are proud of him.

Already, Ataturk is not alone. Millions of people from Balkans migrated to Turkey at those times and most of them was living at north side of today`s Greece, western Thrace and Macedonia. My parents are from Petrich too, province of Salonika/Serres.


About EU;

Turkey applied to the EU at 1960s but they were always playing hypocrite vs us. Never allowing Turkey to get any benefit from EU but they also never let us go away on our own way. They just keep Turkey at the door for 50 years but never allow us to enter from it. In 2010, most people here dislike and doesn't approve EU anymore, especially seeing what happened to the Greece in economic crisis.

EU failed to be a real union. Their behavior for Greece`s problems is an indication of this.

I believe new world order is coming upon us with the rise of China, India and Caucasus for an energy source to the world. EU has no place in this and its destined to be fail in the end.

Armenian problem becoming extremely complicated day by day as the parliaments approves Armenian claims. First of all, there is no genocide at 1915 as Armenians claims and parliaments is not the place to discuss this. How come stupid Yankees at USA knows what happened in Turkey at 1915? Hell, i am sure stupids don't even know where Armenia is in the world.

While ottoman empire was at war in WW-1, armies at Europe, middle-east and all around, Armenian citizens of the empire who lives at eastern Turkey wear Russian and French soldier uniforms, announced that they joined war vs Turkey and started rebellion against us. They also invaded few cities with the help of Russians by mass murdering local Turkish people. They also tried to assassinate Ottoman Sultan. No one could stop them at that time because all Turkish armies was at the war-fields so far away.

Then Ottoman government decided to expel/deport all the Armenians to the other territories of the Empire because they stabbed us from behind and government had no other choice, otherwise they were going to kill all local civilians and occupy eastern Anatolia with the help of Russians. So, about 800.000 Armenians deported with the exception of the ones who lives in Istanbul and İzmir, western side. Yes, some of them died because of exhaustion, spreading diseases and hunger but Ottoman empire even hanged around 80 officers who found guilty of their inability to protect Armenians during their deportations.

No one asks why Ottoman government deported them after living together for 800 years. Armenians always had big privileges. There was Armenian governors, foreign ministers throughout history and they were even in charge of central bank of the Empire. These rich Armenians already wasn't deported because they didn't involved any crimes unlike the ones at eastern side and these Armenians in Istanbul and Izmir still living in Turkey today. Most of them wants these false accusations to stop as well but Western countries are abusing this to weaken Turkey`s hand and make this as an issue for future bargains to get some profits. I am sure they don't even care what happened 100 years ago.

While this happens at Western world, poor and hungry people at Armenia got false hopes and dreams of taking billions of dollars from Turkey as a compensation like Jews took from Germans at WW-2 but they wont gain anything in the end. I am sure of it because we got every valid documents in our hands to prove that it wasn't an ethnic cleansing. Armenians knows this, thats why they refuse Turkey`s calls to settle this problem on international courts, instead, they work hard to make their claims accepted as many as parliaments possible, even at Paraguay or some countries like that.

They just wanted to jump on last wagon of the train by starting terror with the help of Russia and France at WW-1 to create bigger Armenia but they failed to do so and they cant get over with it for 100 years.

[Prolet]

Onur, The Armenians have a large minority in USA and they have a lobby group there. Do you know that Andre Agassi is of Armenian dissent?

[Rogi]

Do you know that Andre Agassi is of Armenian dissent?

Armenian "dissent"? Perhaps you meant to write 'descent'? Or are you trying to say he disagrees with the Armenians?

[Prolet]

Rogi, Descent mate it was a spelling mistake

My mistake

[fyrOM]

Greeks panic has drawn their money from domestic banks

http://www.idividi.com.mk/Biznis/SvetBiznis/592659/index.html

London, April 8 (Reuters) - Greece depositors' panic and hysterically "to draw their money from domestic banks, causing fears among Greek bankers and deepening crisis in which the country, writes the Financial Times. The four largest Greek banks, depositors have withdrawn even 10 billion, and management teams of the banks demanded intervention by the Government in Athens does not happen to lose their money and went bankrupt, MIA reports from London.

London Journal notes that among wealthy Greeks mastered "real hysteria" over the past two months, and even fearful about the fate of their money and property you own, do not want to keep in Greece, but at the moment when their country is facing the biggest and most difficult economic -financial crisis in its recent history, the wealth transferred abroad, mostly in banks in Cyprus and Luxembourg.

During February and March, the Greek accounts of its depositors have withdrawn funds amounting to five percent of the total mass of deposits nationwide. It causes rapid fall in the value of the shares of the largest banks in Greece, which all have their branches in the countries of the Balkans. By mid-week share decrease in value ranges between 6 and 7 per cent. Histerichnoto reaction of the Greek savers do not help the local authorities in stabilizing the domestic economy, but causes new concern in the whole euro area, which continues to stagnate, or has minimal growth compared to other global economies, notes the Financial Times.

[fyrOM]

ATHENS (AP) - Inspectors from the IMF met with the Minister of Finance in Greece to find a way to speed up fiscal reforms at a time when the country still struggles with changing costs of borrowing.
Yesterday's meeting with George Papakonstantinu was closed to media and marks the beginning of the inspection from the IMF, which will last two weeks.
Papakonstantinu denied that Greece asked to examine the financial rescue plan to the IMF, but the cost of borrowing rose sharply.
Earnings from Greek bonds remained high, at 3.85 points over German bonds ten years.

[julie]

I should not be in a state of joy reading about Greece's economic crisis, but I am.
They really should not have spent probably billion of dollars on their anti-Macedonian propoganda and campaigns.

[Onur]

They really should not have spent probably billion of dollars on their anti-Macedonian propoganda and campaigns.

One of the reasons for the economic crisis in Greece is because of their attempt to compete with Turkey in terms of defense expenditures. Last month in the newspapers, I saw a Greek politician blaming Turkey for their economic crisis

They kept increasing their military expenses year by year. I think they spent around 15 billion dollars last year while Turkey cut down its military expense to 18 billion last year. The difference is, 18 billion is like %2 of its budget while 15 billion is like %7-8 of Greece`s budget/income(mostly the EU`s money).

Also Turkey spends this amount of money because of the tension at the southeastern border since USA decides to occupy one of our neighbor countries in every decade. It has no relation with Greece whatsoever.

Only imperialists gains because of the invented tension between Turkey-Greece. USA sells 18 billion worth of equipment to Turkey and France, England earns 15 billion from Greece.

So, basically EU gives some money to Greece and then takes it back with selling military equipments to them. The Proof is France`s latest reaction to Greece economy problem. They basically said that they can only give more money to Greece if they buy more weapons to them.

This is also good for Greek politicians because bigger "Turkish paranoia" means more votes for them at elections.

I wonder when the Greek people will realize this stupid game played upon them

Honestly, Turkey cuts down military expenses every year even with problematic neighbors all around it because of USA`s actions. For what reason Greece spends 15 billion for it every year????

* Macedonia, Albania, Bulgaria will attack Greece??? Hell no.
* To defend itself vs Turkey??? i can laugh to that since even if Greece spends 100 billion, it doesn't make any difference to that situation at all. Also no one in Turkey even thinking about invading Greece maybe except a total of 300-400 ultra nationalist freaks out of 75 million.

[Spartan]

Only imperialists gains because of the invented tension between Turkey-Greece.

Invented?

Aegean sea dispute
The width of the territorial waters. Both sides currently possess 6 nautical miles (11 km) off their shores in the Aegean Sea. Greece claims a right to unilateral expansion to 12 nautical miles, based on the International Law of the Sea. Turkey, which already has expanded its own territorial waters to 12 miles on its other coasts, denies the applicability of the 12-miles rule in the Aegean and has threatened Greece with war in the case it should try to apply it unilaterally.
The width of the national airspace. Greece currently claims 10 miles, while Turkey only acknowledges 6 miles.
The future delimitation of the continental shelf zone in the international parts of the Aegean, which would give the states exclusive rights to economic exploitation.
The right of Greece to exercise flight control over Turkish military flight activities within the international parts of the Aegean, based on conflicting interpretations of the rules about Flight Information Regions (FIR) set by the ICAO.
Since 1996, the sovereignty over some small uninhabited islets, most notably Imia.

Since 1974

July 20, 1974 to July 24, 1974: Cyprus Crisis (as mentioned above)
March 27, 1987 to March 30, 1987: Sismik crisis brought both countries very close to war. Turkish ship Sismik I is about to perform oil-research in Aegean waters. The then Greek Prime Minister Andreas Papandreou orders the ship to be sunk if found in Greek waters. Finally, Sismik I does not perform the research, the crisis gets resolved.
25 December 1995 to 31 January 1996: Imia (in Greek) / Kardak (in Turkish) crisis brought the two countries to the brink of war.
1999 Relations between Greek officials and Abdullah Öcalan (Kurdish rebel leader) and the role of Greek Embassy in Nairobi International Airport Kenya when he captured in an operation by MİT (National Intelligence Organization) caused crisis in relations between two countries for a period of time.
2004 Turkey reconfirmed a "casus belli" if Greece expands its territorial waters to 12 nm as the recent international treaty on the Law of the Sea and the international law allow. Turkey expanded its territorial waters to 12 nm only in the Black Sea and the Eastern Mediterranean. Greece hasn't yet expanded its territorial waters in the Aegean, an act which according to some would exacerbate the Greco-Turkish problems in the Aegean (such as the continental shelf and airspace disputes).
12 April 2005 Greece and Turkey have agreed to establish direct communications between the headquarters of the Air Forces of the two countries in an effort to defuse tension over mutual allegations of air space violations over the Aegean.

Is all this invented?

We can go back even farther and name countless attrocities committed back and forth over the last 700 years.

Is that invented too?

I dont doubt the big arms sellers are benefitting over this tension.
But this tension existed long before todays big arm sellers, were big arm sellers.

Just search "Greek - turkish tensions"
About 1000 pages of links come up
Are they all 'invented' reports too??
Every single one??

Who should be banging their head??

This is also good for Greek politicians because bigger "Turkish paranoia" means more votes for them at elections.

Care to elaborate?

For what reason Greece spends 15 billion for it every year????

1.EUs best interests
2.To make greece as unnatractive a target as possible for strikes in the event tensions flare up.

* Macedonia, Albania, Bulgaria will attack Greece??? Hell no.

You love to state the obvious I see!

* To defend itself vs Turkey??? i can laugh to that since even if Greece spends 100 billion, it doesn't make any difference to that situation at all.

Really?????????????
You dont think a 100 BILLION boost to the Greek military would make a difference to this situation?????????
Can you explain how you came to this conclusion??

Also no one in Turkey even thinking about invading Greece maybe except a total of 300-400 ultra nationalist freaks out of 75 million.

Of course
I forgot that you can speak for 99.9999% of the countries citizens

If an Alien were to come to earth, and only had your version of Turkey to hear about, Im sure he would think its a disneyland with a population of exclusively Mother Teresa types.

[Prolet]

Spartan, You have to agree that Turkey is surrounded by Neighbors that have been either invaded or attacked by USA and its allies. Just look at Iraq,Syria,Lebanon is near by,Georgia was invaded by Russia nearly 2 years ago and so forth. Lets not forget the fight against the PKK Terrorists, when you look at Turkey's neighbors to the north and north east (Bulgaria and Greece) they are far less of a threat then further down south.

[Spartan]

Yes Prolet, this is all true.
Greece is no threat to Turkey.
The Greek military is set up to defend against Turkey.
Turkey is a very strong military power, and are our enemies for a thousand years.
Therefore we also NEED a strong military.
The 2 states have come to the brink of all out war on more than a few occasions the last 30 or 40 years.
They do not respect our borders, and violate them daily.
What should we do?
Just not worry about it, and hopefully everything works out??
Hopefully all these other problems you mention them having with other nations keeps their gaze away from us.

Dont buy into Mail2onurs descriptions of Turkey being a nation of nuns.
Its not true.
No less then 100 years ago they were the common enemy of all the Balkans.
Others can forgive, or opt not to worry about them....that is their right, and to each his own.....fine by me.
I am happy that Greece does not fall into this category.
I dont trust those snakes for a second.

[Prolet]

Spartan, I know your version with Turkey is alot different and i can understand why and i also dont blame you for thinking this way. However what is the point of being a member of Nato when you have to wary about another Nato member? The Greek Economy is in ruins, there are riots,demonstrations etc I thought the whole purpose was for each country to protect eachother should somebody gets attacked, so for example if Lybia decides to attack Greece then Turkey has to protect Greece.

[Spartan]

I often ask myself this as well Prolet, and I have come to the conclusion NATO is a defunct and useless org for the reasons you explain above.

For example, imagine your Libya scenario plays out.
Who will force Turkey to help us?
Do you honestly believe Turkey would bomb another muslim country to aid Greece?
During the NATO bombings of Serbia, Greece refused to partake.
Was their any reprecussions?

See what I mean brother.
Im not asking you, or anyone for that matter, to agree
But do you see what I mean.....

[Onur]

Invented?

Aegean sea dispute
The width of the territorial waters. Both sides currently possess 6 nautical miles (11 km) off their shores in the Aegean Sea. Greece claims a right to unilateral expansion to 12 nautical miles...
Since 1996, the sovereignty over some small uninhabited islets, most notably Imia.

I already spoke about Greece`s stupid "12 nautical miles" claim here;

Share of the airspace at Aegean sea as accepted by international law and Turkey;
Greece:%35, Turkey:%8.8, International waters:%56

Greece objects this for few decades and accepts the Share of the airspace at Aegean sea as;
Greece:%63.9, Turkey:%10, International waters:%26.1

Greece claims that they should have larger airspace because they got few tiny islands(As small as 1km square without any living creature) close by the shores of Turkey.

This claim never gets approved by any country or organization. So when Turkish jets flies on international waters or on its own airspace, Greeks says "Turks violates our airspace" but ofc no one takes them seriously on this issue. On the other hand, Greek jets tries to enter Turkish airspace occasionally because of their so called bigger airspace where no one approves except Greeks themselves.

The tiny island "Imia" is a good example to make people understand how stupid Greece`s claims are. First of all, Imia is like 3 miles away to Turkey`s mainland coasts. Its even visible by naked eye at shore. If we accept your stupid claims, this means 3 miles of Turkey`s coasts will belong to Greek jets and coast guards of naval army(The racist ones paraded Athens who wants to wear cloths of our skins). This basically means when i try to catch some fishes with a simple boat, your racist naval army force shoots me down in the name of spill the blood of Turkish pigs as they said in Athens.

Therefor, Greece will NEVER EVER achieve stupid "12 nautical miles" goal.

July 20, 1974 to July 24, 1974: Cyprus Crisis (as mentioned above)

Again, I already wrote about this b4 too;

I can guess that most of you only know Greek claims for Cyprus so I want to remind few facts 1st;

As you know, all islands on Aegean and Mediterranean sea was belong to Turks since 15th century to WW1. At WW1, Italians occupied all islands with the exception of Cyprus which occupied by England. After WW1, Italians left all islands to the Greece and England accepted to leave Cyprus(exception of the remaining 2-3 British military base) while letting people form a parliament where Greeks and Turks had equal members and rights.

That was the case till 1960s, then Greeks founded the movement named "EOKA" to throw all the Turks out from Cyprus and they protested the parliament which consist %50 Greek, %50 Turkish members. They said Cyprus is a Greek only island by totally ignoring the Turkish people who lived there for 500 years.

After the rise of "EOKA" movement among Greeks and following a coup d'état engineered by the Greek Junta. the mass murder and killings of Turks began. In 7 years between 1967 to 1974, most of the Turks started to migrate into Turkey or to England.

Then Turkey started military campaign into Cyprus to end the turmoil at 1974 while ignoring the opposition of whole Europe and USA because if Turkey wouldn't realize an army operation, I am %100 sure that there wouldn't exist a single Turkish person in Cyprus right now. All would be fled to Turkey or be killed by the Greek Junta soldiers or their EOKA followers.

So, 1974 wasn't the start of problems as you claim. It was the end of crimes and atrocities created by the actions of Greek Junta generals, following a coup d'état engineered by them in Greece at 1967.

IMHO, Greece should thank us because, Their Cyprus failure ended the 7 years reign of USA supported fascist and non-democratic Junta generals regime who also arrested and murdered 1000s of people in Greece.

1999 Relations between Greek officials and Abdullah Öcalan (Kurdish rebel leader) and the role of Greek Embassy in Nairobi International Airport Kenya when he captured in an operation by MİT (National Intelligence Organization) caused crisis in relations between two countries for a period of time.

Tell me why you support PKK leader which recognized as international terror group by everone, in your embassy?????? AND why you build PKK terrorist training camps in Greece????

The existence of PKK camps in Greece known issue by everyone;

Six suspects arrested in Belgium on charges of recruiting fighters for the banned Kurdistan Workers Party have been released pending trial. Belgian authorities kept eight of them in jail, claiming they were part of a PKK scheme to recruit young people of Kurdish origin in Europe for military camps in Iraq and Greece.
03.26.2010, United Press International, Belgium.

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/Special/2010/03/26/Belgium-releases-six-PKK-suspects/UPI-84061269624401/




Well answer is obvious, because its terror against Turkey, therefor Greece supports it as you said. How would you react if Turkey trains terrorists to send them to attack Greece and secure its leader at its embassies????????

In here, you basically confess Greek policy vs Turkey. Greece even supports terrorism if its against Turkey.

So, you provoke Turkey in every way possible, therefor you need weapons to defend yourself just in case of Turkish attack?????

This actually summarizes the usual Greek behavior against Turkey for the last 100 years.

Really?????????????
You dont think a 100 BILLION boost to the Greek military would make a difference to this situation?????????
Can you explain how you came to this conclusion??

OK, Go buy 100 billion worth of weapons and point them at our borders, wait for Turkey to attack you with empty stomach because of economic crisis. I am sure French weapon dealers will love you and your country

We can go back even farther and name countless attrocities committed back and forth over the last 700 years.

Sigh, look for the future, dude

[Babazuba]

Pardon my ignorance, but isn't this just like a Greek to blame others for their well cultivated
blunders?
Gentleman speaks of Greek Americans, what
concerns me is the fact that those Americans who live in Greece, have ptoblems just like
everibody else. As we all are in Australia.
Australian Greeks, excetera and so on.
Or did he ment, American Greeks whose money flew out of window.
Educate me,