Financial Crisis in Greece

[Phoenix]

Hang on a minute. I have acquired a common theme on this forum about the lack of human rights for minorities in Greece. The rainbow party represents your people I believe? You should all have a vested interest in Hellenic elections.

I would be following elections with bated breath, ensuring that my minority exercises their democratic rights. There seems to be a paramount contradiction that Macedonian members of this forum find Greek elections irrelevant.

Fark me...

"Human rights"..."minorities in greece"..."democratic rights"...

What farkin drugs are you on, mate...?

[sydney]

Guess what they reffered to (among other things).

I think you're a funny guy. It's a shame you think we're idiots. Regardless of any elections or which party is in power, Greece is unified at a national level on how it should treat Macedonians (on a global scale). From a certain point of view this solidarity is to be admired but negation of all things Macedonian is not.

[George S.]

I don't care about your elections any more than you care for the macedonian people.What now you admit they exist. The greek govt THey will always be scum to me as a matter of fact when is the last time you or your greek politicians admitted to the attrocities they did to the macedonians..Also you say there are no macedonian minorities.But your govt in the past mentioned the endopi as the original macedonians or indiginous they wren't referred as slavo macedonians.Your govt is full of bullshit it wants to have it both ways.Allso If you know your history your hero pvlos melas wrote home to his wife to say he learned macedonian.He didn't learn Slav macedonian or slavo language or slavophone.Just macedonian.
Your stupidity and your govt nrver ceases to amaze me.Also in 1925 the greeks themselves produced an abcedar to teach the macedonians their alphabet and their language asked by the league of nations to produce a primer for their minories..It was a primer .Guess what the greeks called the people macedonians.AHUGE SLIP UP.ALSO Officials wrote that the people were MACEDONIAN and spoke Not slavic language but MACEDONIAN.Another huge SLIPUP. Also the greek govt changed their mind and never allowed the macedonians to have their primer.So after all that spitfire you can sit behind your computer and still support what you govt has done and is doing.When and how have you really supported the agean macedonians?????.Another slip up was that the greeks didn't tell the serbs and bulgarians that they produced a primer because they also wanted to teach their minorities their alphabet and language.They were upset with greece big time.That is another slip up as greece refused to use the primer and HID it away so the league of nations didn't know what it did.

[spitfire]

I think you're a funny guy. It's a shame you think we're idiots. Regardless of any elections or which party is in power, Greece is unified at a national level on how it should treat Macedonians (on a global scale). From a certain point of view this solidarity is to be admired but negation of all things Macedonian is not.

I don't think you are idiots. I think that you are in denial.
You should be aware of the thesis of the opposition and the probability of them becoming a government with a very different agenda in the macedonian issue.

But then again, who cares, everybody's bad if he is greek right? They are united vampires right?
I think you are much funnier than I am.

[spitfire]

I don't care about your elections any more than you care for the macedonian people.What now you admit they exist. The greek govt THey will always be scum to me as a matter of fact when is the last time you or your greek politicians admitted to the attrocities they did to the macedonians..Also you say there are no macedonian minorities.But your govt in the past mentioned the endopi as the original macedonians or indiginous they wren't referred as slavo macedonians.Your govt is full of bullshit it wants to have it both ways.Allso If you know your history your hero pvlos melas wrote home to his wife to say he learned macedonian.He didn't learn Slav macedonian or slavo language or slavophone.Just macedonian.
Your stupidity and your govt nrver ceases to amaze me.Also in 1925 the greeks themselves produced an abcedar to teach the macedonians their alphabet and their language asked by the league of nations to produce a primer for their minories..It was a primer .Guess what the greeks called the people macedonians.AHUGE SLIP UP.ALSO Officials wrote that the people were MACEDONIAN and spoke Not slavic language but MACEDONIAN.Another huge SLIPUP. Also the greek govt changed their mind and never allowed the macedonians to have their primer.So after all that spitfire you can sit behind your computer and still support what you govt has done and is doing.When and how have you really supported the agean macedonians?????.Another slip up was that the greeks didn't tell the serbs and bulgarians that they produced a primer because they also wanted to teach their minorities their alphabet and language.They were upset with greece big time.That is another slip up as greece refused to use the primer and HID it away so the league of nations didn't know what it did.

George, all this hatred is in the wrong direction. It's not how is done in politics.
Let me explain.
You don't start from the end in politics but from the beginning. You need to have an idea and cultivate it to start going into a certain direction. Then this cultivation becomes a policy. Then this policy becomes a thesis and so on, until one day you are about to make it a reality.
It takes time unfortunately, but this is how it's done. There is no immediate solution to anything. There is only a different approach that may lead to a solution.

Who knows maybe one day you'll walk through what's today borders and only signs will show you where you are.
(You know that's what happens today between E.U countries don't you?).

[Amphipolis]

After today's TV interview of Prime Minister Samaras it is clear the Government does not have another ace in the hole and Greece is heading to early general elections.

The third voting for President of Democracy is on Monday noon and will (surely) not reach 180 votes. (He took 160 the first time and 168 in the second).

[George S.]

So what happens when they have a stalemate.How are you going to have democratically elected reps.It will be a rule by a few not a majority.AUstralia has been through all that.Unless you get a clear majority,you really can't do anything.THe independents or the likes of golden dawn may control the status quo.

[Amphipolis]

Yes, Greece IS going to early elections in January 25

Who lost Greece
By Alexis Papachelas

If Greece collapses much will be said about where the fault lies. Sure, we all know the failings of Greek politicians. That said, much of the blame lies with outsiders who pushed Greece beyond its limits.

From the start of the crisis, Berlin sought to get the IMF involved; it was what Wolfgang Schaeuble wanted. The policy was largely driven from a desire to punish Greece for its sins but also from the need to provide German voters with a fig leaf before approving a Greek aid package. The argument that the US used the IMF to manipulate Europe is full of holes, especially in light of Washington’s disagreement with Berlin over austerity. The IMF made plenty of mistakes. Instead of pushing for structural changes, it approved horizontal cuts because Dominique Strauss-Kahn did not want to pressure the George Papandreou government. The IMF underestimated the devastating consequences of the banking crisis on the Greek economy, mainly high borrowing costs for businesses. Also, the IMF insisted that debt restructuring was necessary for the program to be sustainable but it never quite managed to convince European governments to find a solution to the Greek debt.

The ECB on the other hand followed in the IMF’s footsteps on all matters save the debt. In a secret letter to the Papandreou government, Jean-Claude Trichet warned that a rescheduling of the debt “could trigger very large losses for Greek banks.” The ECB also resisted calls by the Commission for a new monitoring system for Greece. Berlin, finally, saw the need for a new deal with the troika but Schaeuble continued to insist on an IMF role.

And that brings us to September. The choice became clearer. If the troika insisted on more austerity, the government would simply crumble. The Commission saw the problem, Jean-Claude Juncker did all he could, but the IMF and the ECB would not be swayed. Christine Lagarde made clear that more sacrifice was needed to wrap up the negotiations. Angela Merkel argued that she had spent a lot of capital on Greece and Portugal and there was nothing she could do without Schaeuble’s backing. Large funds that invested in Greece warned that a hard-line approach would send the country into a political tailspin and put any achievements at risk.

Just over a month ago, a tough behind-the-scenes battle was fought. The Commission lost and the IMF won. The motives are not yet clear. One explanation would be that the IMF and Schaeuble decided that SYRIZA would inevitably rise to power, with or without a deal. By pulling the rug from under Greece, they accelerated political developments. If things go awry, it will be interesting to see who will lose out. The IMF loan to Greece is safe. Europe may deem that Greece no longer poses a risk but it is too early to tell. Berlin will have to explain to German voters why the Greek success story failed. Greeks will suffer. “Who lost Greece?” could become the subject of future seminars.

[Constellation]

Yes, Greece IS going to early elections in January 25

Who lost Greece
By Alexis Papachelas

If Greece collapses much will be said about where the fault lies. Sure, we all know the failings of Greek politicians. That said, much of the blame lies with outsiders who pushed Greece beyond its limits.

While there is no doubt the EU is a mess, and blame should go all around, but to state that "much of the blame lies with outsiders" is a bit absurd, even for a Greek.

Greece should have never entered the EU. Be that as it is, Greece should now leave the Euro, which in my opinion will not happen,

[Amphipolis]

Greece should have never entered the EU. Be that as it is, Greece should now leave the Euro, which in my opinion will not happen,

Actually Eurozone countries cannot leave Euro. They can only (fully) leave European Union.

[Amphipolis]

The latest projections for today's elections are that Tsipras (Coalition of Radical Left) will win with about 33-37% and will be the next Prime Minister. He will be either close below or above the 151 seats he needs, so he will have to form a coalition government with one or two smaller “anti-austerity” parties.

The New Parliament may have 6 to 8 political parties. Panos Kamenos (anti-austerity, eurosceptic) and George Papandreou (socialist former Prime Minister who recently formed his own party) are the two parties struggling to pass the 3% buffer and enter the Parliament.

As far as I know the Turkish/Muslim parties and Rainbow Party decided not to participate (their tactic is to participate only in European Elections).

[Amphipolis]

By the way

Tsipras is 41, he was born in Athens, his father cοmes from Arta (Epirus) and his mother comes from Eleutheroupolis (Macedonia) the small town where my grandmother comes from (this is in Kavala district).

Samaras' ancestry was also (1/4th) from Macedonia (the important Zannas family).


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[Amphipolis]

The first results and exit polls show an even greater (than expected) victory of Tsipras with a percentage that may range from 35-38%.

http://ekloges.ypes.gr/current/v/public/index.html?lang=en#{%22cls%22:%22main%22,%22params%22:{}}

[Philosopher]

By the way

Tsipras is 41, he was born in Athens, his father cοmes from Arta (Epirus) and his mother comes from Eleutheroupolis (Macedonia) the small town where my grandmother comes from (this is in Kavala district).

Samaras' ancestry was also (1/4th) from Macedonia (the important Zannas family).


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So what is your reaction to the polls?

Where do you stand politically?

[George S.]

i heard its pretty bleak news.The govt doesn't want austerity measures.They can expect a boot out of the eu.