Financial Crisis in Greece

[Spartan]

Have you ever seen a map of greece prolet?
90% ?????
Where on earth did you pull that figure from????

Id be willing to bet that well over half of greeces islands are south of Athens latitude.

On a seperate note, I didnt know/think that there were Macedonians that came from Islands (northeren Aegean i'd guess).
Could someone enlighten me perhaps? sounds very interesting

[Prolet]

Spartan, Im talking about the Aegean Islands not the Mediteranian ones, either way its no good for a country to sell any of its Islands. The Croats and MonteNegrans are doing it and its not good for the future of their countries.

Im still wondering how on earth can Greece get itself to this situation, even the 3rd generation will be paying off this debt. Its really terrible when you look at it.

Spartan, Whats the situation like now in Greece? How are the people coping with all the major changes that Papandreu put in place? The riots have been terrible.

[Prolet]

Get up earlier, Germans tell GreeksFirst Greece was told to sell islands to pay off its debts, now the German tabloid Bild has reminded George Papandreou of the two countries' differences

After yesterday's call by two German politicians that Greece sell off islands, historic buildings and artworks before receiving aid, the German tabloid Bild has written an open letter to the Greek prime minister George Papandreou:


Dear prime minister,

If you're reading this, you've entered a country different from yours. You're in Germany.

Here, people work until they are 67 and there is no 14th-month salary for civil servants. Here, nobody needs to pay a €1,000 bribe to get a hospital bed in time.

Our petrol stations have cash registers, taxi drivers give receipts and farmers don't swindle EU subsidies with millions of non-existent olive trees.

Germany also has high debts but we can settle them. That's because we get up early and work all day.

We want to be friends with the Greeks. That's why since joining the euro, Germany has given your country €50bn.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/mar/05/bild-open-letter-greece-papandreou

[Risto the Great]

I love the hypocrisy when the EU is insisting Greece does not borrow from the IMF. Clearly the EU requires subservient member countries to have only one master.

[Spartan]

Spartan, Im talking about the Aegean Islands not the Mediteranian ones, either way its no good for a country to sell any of its Islands. The Croats and MonteNegrans are doing it and its not good for the future of their countries.

Im still wondering how on earth can Greece get itself to this situation, even the 3rd generation will be paying off this debt. Its really terrible when you look at it.

Spartan, Whats the situation like now in Greece? How are the people coping with all the major changes that Papandreu put in place? The riots have been terrible.

Firstly, greece will not sell their islands because a couple german politicians advised them to do so.... i dont think. Just my opinion.

Greece got themselves in this situation rather easily. Doctored financial records and statements with a little US help. It is bad yes, very bad, but wait til this crisis hits Portugal and Spain, then you will see 'bad'.

The people are coping how they always have, and will....protesting and rioting. Although to an outsider these 'riots' can look very bad (and they are),sadly, its really nothing out of the norm. Tear gas, riot police and protestors are a daily occurence in Athens since the fall of the junta.... This will never change....regardless of how good or how bad the situation is.

As for the islands, which are the ones that are Macedonian, and roughly how many?

[Bij]

Spartan - what makes you think Spain and Portugal will be worse? I am honestly curious, not being a smarty pants here.

Also, if Greece doesn't sell off some of its assets, what other alternatives do you think they should explore in order to fix their debt up?

[Spartan]

Ive heard and read that Portugal and Spain are very close to being in the same boat with greece... just a matter of time. Now greece and Portugal arent big countries, but Spain is another story, and if it were to fall into the same situation as Greece, the effects would be felt way more. I have also read that Italy and Britain arent doing so hot either, but their situations are manageable if measures are taken... but thats neither here nor there....

Anyways,

Bij, I just dont see greece selling their islands to counter their debt.
First of all, most of these islands are tiny insignifigant rocks.
Who would buy them?
Perhaps private buyers may purchase the smaller ones as 'private islands', but this wont put a dent into the debt, plus they have been doing this for years... Over, and 'under the table' if you know what i mean.
As for the larger islands with communities, towns and cities... how could you sell those?
And to who? What happens to the inhabitants? Just dont see it happening.... maybe im wrong.

Imo, greece will be bailed out.
The question and debate is 'at what rate'???
Im confident our politicians will do all the scheming, doctoring and corrupting necessary to make it happen.....

As for what they can do... well thats the million dollar question
Obviously raising taxes on Cigs and liquor, which they have done.... and has led to much civil unrest
Military budget cuts, as we grossly overspend, relatively speaking, on our military.... but thats tricky considering our neighbour.
Raise income tax.... but nobody pays it anyways
Cut down on holidays/days off.... which nobody would adhere to
Cut pensions.... Riots, strikes , protests

Tuff situation these greeks i tell you.
Theyve had it very good up til now.
Imagine being married to prince Harry, and never having to left a finger, or have a concern in the world.
One day, you wake up, and all of a sudden find yourself as a wife to a poor man and actually have to work for a living.
It'd be a bit of a shock to say the least, and i doubt you (or anyone) wouldnt have some issues dealing with such a change.

The greeks are about to hit a wall caled REALITY...and they dont like it.....

[Risto the Great]

A cousin of mine works for the Tax Office in Greece. They are no longer giving her bonuses at Christmas and Easter. WTF? I never would have offered bonuses that ignore productivity in the first place. Greece has convinced many to embrace their new identity by buying their souls. I wonder if they will remain happily Greek now they can no longer be part of a pension state.

[Spartan]

A cousin of yours lives in greece AND works???
wow
I have 300 cousins in greece, and none of them work!!!!!

[Prolet]

Could it be that the Spartans are different to the ordinary Greeks?

[Spartan]

Well, we arent 'ordinary'

[Risto the Great]

A cousin of yours lives in greece AND works???
wow
I have 300 cousins in greece, and none of them work!!!!!

I know you are exaggerating Spartan. But actually pretty much all of my relatives work their arses off in Greece. I assumed it was the same all around Greece.

[Spartan]

I hear you Risto, and of course there are many greeks who work their asses off as you say. Make no mistake about it though, in the south at least, they are all trying to lessen their work load/expenses at any oppurtunity. 'Pulling a fast one' on any authority, be it government or babysitter, is deemed as 'clever', and not frowned upon whatsoever (by fellow citizens).

I have countless stories of such instances.

On a different note, could you shed any light on these Macedonian islanders Prolet brought to my attention?
Im very interested to hear about this!

[Risto the Great]

I find that if I close my eyes and dream hard enough, I can pretend I am on an island and that it is the sea breeze I can smell instead of cow shit when I am visiting relatives in my ancestral villages in southern Macedonia.

[Bij]

Spartan, I also don't believe Greece would ever sell off anything to relieve their debt. The suggestion seemed tongue in cheek to me. Also, in the article they mention the uninhibited islands (which are the majority of them) for selling, certainly not those with people living on them.

I think the Greeks are too egotistical to sell anything off that they believe they rightfully own, honestly, this would not go down well.

I don't think Spain and Portugal are in as bad shape as Greece from what I've read.

Who do you think will bail out Greece (and then Portugal and Spain?)

abre they should put Bij in charge of Greece, I'll show them reality!