Financial Crisis in Greece

[SoutherNeighbour]

The most logical approach is full recognition of RoM as Macedonia .Its people recognised as Macedonians plain and simple based on how they self identify.I dont know how SYRIZA will act though.My opinion is that there are far more chances that Greece will compromise if you have a left leaning government led by SYRIZA.

Samaras and his bullshit team are worthless and not interested in any solution.

Btw you remember correctly.I was on maknews few years back

[SoutherNeighbour]

Nothing would surprise me....however Greece doesn't actually exist, nor the Greeks, what we have is an abomination of mixed gypsies, romaoi, tuks, arnauti, all living out the Western fantasy of an existing 4,000 y.o. culture!

Oh yeah!!Actually I love thinking how romantic these western fantasies were back then.It's pretty surreal when you understand the nation you were forced to accept growing up is made up from the wishful romantic thinking of western powers.

I for one usually have a good laugh when the Greeks start their rants on ancient history etc.You should come to Greece and have a laugh as well.Its very entertaining trust me

[George S.]

Tourists have told me labandoned and lost dogs roam all over athens shitting everywhere if you are not carefull you will step on a pile.Tourists regularly informing that there has ben some shiftiness going on for what nearly all the macedonian artifacts have been shifted north to their macedonian museum.Why??whats there to hide??

[makedonche]

Oh yeah!!Actually I love thinking how romantic these western fantasies were back then.It's pretty surreal when you understand the nation you were forced to accept growing up is made up from the wishful romantic thinking of western powers.

I for one usually have a good laugh when the Greeks start their rants on ancient history etc.You should come to Greece and have a laugh as well.Its very entertaining trust me

Hi SN
I was born in Macedonia, the part taken over by Greece, haven't returned yet but will 1 day soon! My information comes directly from my descendants( some who are still living) and managed to trace our history back about 300 years, and at no time other than post 1913 were any/many Greeks living in Lerin, there had been travellers/explorers etc but the area was Macedonian dominated.

[SoutherNeighbour]

Hi SN
I was born in Macedonia, the part taken over by Greece, haven't returned yet but will 1 day soon! My information comes directly from my descendants( some who are still living) and managed to trace our history back about 300 years, and at no time other than post 1913 were any/many Greeks living in Lerin, there had been travellers/explorers etc but the area was Macedonian dominated.

Well you should visit Florina then.I am pretty sure there are still people speaking Macedonian.Half of Florina is full of amnesic Macedonians.Your beloved Grmani .Try to help them remember when you come to Greece.It should be fun.

[makedonche]

Well you should visit Florina then.I am pretty sure there are still people speaking Macedonian.Half of Florina is full of amnesic Macedonians.Your beloved Grmani .Try to help them remember when you come to Greece.It should be fun.

SouthernNeighbour
Thanks I will visit, although i don't know any place called Florina? But I will definitely be going back to Lerin!

[George S.]

you can allways do a google search by street view its cheaper.Perhaps go for a visit as well.

[George S.]

Currency bloc is locked into a low-growth, low-inflation, Work

Currency bloc is locked into a low-growth, low-inflation, high-unemployment paradigm
Larry Elliott, economics editor
Friday 17 October 2014

The Guardian

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/oct/17/eurozone-crisis-five-years-on-greek-odyssey

----

Greece loves its epic tales and the greatest of them is the story of Odysseus, the hero who took 10 years to find his way back to Ithaca at the end of the Trojan War.

A modern version of the Odyssey began in Greece five years ago this weekend when the government in Athens admitted that it had cooked the books to make its budget deficit look much smaller than it actually was. Few thought then that the scandal would have serious ramifications or that the journey through the stormy seas of crisis would have taken so long.

Back in October 2009, the mood in the eurozone was one of cautious optimism. The year had started with Europe caught up in the global economic crash that followed the collapse of Lehman Brothers, but co-ordinated action by the G20 during the winter of 2008-09 had created the conditions for a recovery in growth that appeared to be gaining strength as the year wore on.

The admission by George Papandreou’s new socialist government of a black hole in Greece’s public finances was unwelcome but not viewed as something to be unduly worried about. But the policy makers in Brussels and Frankfurt were wrong. Greece did matter.

What has become clear subsequently is that the eurozone crisis is similar to Scylla, the monster that devoured many of Odysseus’s men: a many-headed beast.

The first sign of the crisis to come was the deterioration in government finances, not just in Greece but in other eurozone countries. In truth, though, rising deficits were symptoms of three bigger problems.

The first was that many countries in the eurozone had a competitiveness problem. Monetary union had given all the members of the single currency a common interest rate and no freedom to adjust their exchange rates. This meant that if a country had a higher inflation rate than its neighbour, its goods for export would gradually become more expensive. This is what had happened regularly to Italy during the post-war period, when its inflation rate was invariably higher than that in Germany. This time, however, Italy could not devalue.

A second problem was that the European banks were loaded with excessive amounts of debt. Low interest rates led to strong growth for countries on the periphery of the eurozone, normally driven by their real estate sectors. Money from banks in the countries at the core of the eurozone – France and Germany – flooded into Spain and Ireland, where house prices were booming. They were also loaded with US sub-prime mortgage debt. When the crash came, the banks were in serious trouble. Many of them remain in a critical condition.

A third problem is that Europe lacked a growth model in the years leading up to the crisis – and still lacks one. For Germany, the answer is for every country to bear down on its costs and make itself more competitive. But one country’s improved competitiveness is another country’s reduced competitiveness. Five years on, the eurozone is locked into a low-growth, low-inflation, high-unemployment paradigm.

As with Odysseus, the story of the past five years is one of blunders made, unforeseen problems encountered, opportunities missed. The Greek of myth eventually found his way back to his wife, Penelope. A happy ending for the eurozone still looks some way off.

If you have any questions about this email, please contact the guardian.co.uk user help desk: [email protected].

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[spitfire]

Undoubtedly, the concept of a locked currency is one of the worst ideas in economy.

I mean look at the Euro. Everybody has to be like Germany in order to survive. Even France has problems with it. Imagine a country that cannot devaluate its currency in order to be competitive and has to be like Germany in order to maintain the euro as it is.
What a silly idea!

And of course, you are then locked to a central bank that manages your economy. A very tyrannical idea!

[George S.]

yeah greece knew what it was getting itself into.You only got to look at spain and italy they are basket cases.Germany just uses other countries .THey only prefer resource rich countries so yhey can reap the rewards.The worst mistake to make is to lock in your currency,that is proof enough.

[spitfire]

Among the rest of Europe you mean George?

Nobody was able to predict the German hegemonism to be present once again. Although typical for germans, nobody could even think that inflicting war in economic terms was possible.

It was supposed to be a union of the people, not money. A very romantic view it seems.

[George S.]

a union in name only.The people really resented.You only need to see that the germans wanted to pull out and not save greece.The debts of just a few nations aew cripling the eu.On the other hand greece was giving full cooperation with accepting the austerity measures.Imagine that they wemt in total collapse of the economy in months.

[spitfire]

It's not only the currency, which of course is the most important factor. There are othe tyrannical politics in the EU.
You are not allowed to exploit to the best extend your powers. For instance you are not allowed to export all of your advantageous products because other countries can't keep up with that.

If you ask me, the EU is a communist system. A centralized system to be exact.
The EU has to undergo a long way before being regarded as something that is for the people. I don't know if it will last that long. The thing is that it's political decisions involved.
Under the prism of economical terms, this thing shouldn't have existed many times in a row.

[Redsun]

I thought it was a commercial system, purely for commerce.

[Risto the Great]

Macedonia isn't even in the EU and has already signed away some of its rights to be competitive. The EU is a mechanism for banks to play their games with. When it all inevitably falls apart, the banks will be the winners again. I cannot see it lasting.

Europe can continue to dream of the 35 hour working week and jobs for everyone, but the reality is that people are willing to do more for less in other continents.