Financial Crisis in Greece

[George S.]

Louis Do you think the greek govt is doing everything it can do.Are people paying their taxes etc all the austerity measures it was asked to doOr is it going to wipe itself off the map.Macedonia not having a track record on other things would have followed a similar route like greece if it had been an eu member.Virtually all eu members have a debt crisis or it's looming in it's footsteps.
Louis is this the real you or some photograph from a magazine & some very old greek man behind the keyboard

[SirGeorge8600]

I wish I could work a pointless public sector job and sit all day at the beach while getting a "fakilaki" in the mail loaded with cash...

[George S.]

Sir george i wonder if a greek gets say the australian govt pension does that mean they can get the greek pension as well if they live in greece.Perhaps the greeks could do all this & more if they were a rich oil country like lybia or the arabs with lots of oil wells.What a life drinking coffee all day,the beach,a life of leaisure & pleasure.Not only that but if there wasn't any taxes,for someone else to pay them what a life.

[makgerman]

Well, actually the exact ratio between us is 5.4:1, while between USA and Mexico is 4.7:1. These are end-of-2011 data.

Greece (by the end of 2012) will have indeed lost 1/5th of its' economy (as it was in 2008, at the beginning of the crisis).

Yes some modern Greeks still believe their country is in a good economic position and will keep on dreaming until EU pulls the plug on them.

I am not an economic expert however the results below clearly show the state Greece is in compared to Macedonia/US/Mexico and Turkey
You have to look closer when you compare Macedonia/Greece to USA/Mexico. Mexico appears to be in a better condition than USA.

Turkey's GDP is $773b USD whereas Greece's GDP is $299b USD. The ratio is 2.6:1 - what does that mean? Using the GDP alone doesn't paint the whole picture.

Macedonia has been independent for two decades and had to, and is still climbing many internal hurdles. In the meantime most of it's neighbours (especially Greece & Albanians) want it destroyed by imposing blockades, vetoes, spreading propaganda etc.

Modern Greece have had a head start from the date it was created in 1832 or a 160 year head start. The Greek people have been donated hundreds of billions of Euros by other countries and instead of accepting the responsibility, they blame everyone else except themselves.

Some data extracted from http://www.tradingeconomics.com


GDP Annual Growth Rate (%):
Greece -6.2%
Macedonia -1.4%
Turkey +2.3%
USA +2.2%
Mexico +4.6%

Government Debt to GDP Ratio (%):
Greece 165.3%
Macedonia 28.1%
Turkey 39.4%
USA 98.5%
Mexico 43.8%

I wonder which country is at the bottom of the list.

[Zakynthian]

Yes some modern Greeks still believe their country is in a good economic position and will keep on dreaming until EU pulls the plug on them.


I wonder which country is at the bottom of the list.

According to the IMF, it is Japan with 229,77% of its GDP. I suggest you close the borders to the japanese aswell, since your country is in big danger of the influx of millions of desperate Japanese.

Claim whatever you want, the situation between GRE and ROM is not for a comparison. Louis' said it all in a nutshell, while you are trying desperetely in frusration to convince yourself for something else...

Lately I read an article that about 11000 macedonians are working in the greek tourism industry during the high saison, and now I'm wondering why they do so if the situation in their homeland is such better. I'll tell you why: Because they are kind and rational thinking hardworking citizens who know that a few months working in Greece brings enough income to pursuit a decent life back at home.

[Stojacanec]

^
Zak, are you trying to dress up greece as some kind of a saviour to Macedonia or something?
Forget the dressing, just try and stay out of our internal affairs for a change, that would be a start.
How many greeks go and work outside greece?
How many people set up businesses in Macedonia for cheaper labour and taxes etc.

The EU is your saviour however the average modern greek can't seem to own up to that fact, just prefer to blame everyone else.

[Coolski]

Germany has given up on Frankensteinopoulos. I didn't think i'd live to see the day.

[Zakynthian]

^
Zak, are you trying to dress up greece as some kind of a saviour to Macedonia or something?

Absolutely not. In fact I was using the same data source makgerman used.

^
Forget the dressing, just try and stay out of our internal affairs for a change, that would be a start.

That is what I'm doing

^
How many greeks go and work outside greece?

I'm not sure. Since the start of the crisis about 77,000 Greeks left their country mainly towards other EU countries

^
How many people set up businesses in Macedonia for cheaper labour and taxes etc.

I don't know but I suppose many.

^
The EU is your saviour however the average modern greek can't seem to own up to that fact, just prefer to blame everyone else.

I'm not expecting anyone to save us from crisis. Its up tp us greeks to get out of this recession. And I'm sure at the end we will make it like many times before, with or without external help. At the end nobody asked me if I wanted these saviours

[makgerman]

According to the IMF, it is Japan with 229,77% of its GDP. I suggest you close the borders to the japanese aswell, since your country is in big danger of the influx of millions of desperate Japanese.

Macedonia and any country would welcome the Japanese with open arms. I can't say the same for the lazy Greeks. As it is Lois who started the comparison between US/Mexico and Greece/Macedonia. Question him why he has done so.

To make you happier, I'll use his method and use numbers to compare the Japanese and Greek economies:

• There is a 9.7% difference in GDP growth rate in Japan's favour; Japan GDP Rate +3.5%, Greece GDP Rate -6.2%

• Japan/Greece GDP ratio is 19.6:1. Japan's GDP is $5867b USD. Greece's GDP is $298b USD

• Export/Import Ratio - Japan is way ahead of Greece in both exports and imports. It exports 32.6 times more than Greece. It also imports 17.8 times more than Greece

• However, Japan's Export/Import ratio is 1.01 which means it's exports are 1% higher than it's imports. It isn't the same for poor Greece, it imports 81.5% more than it exports.

• Japan: Exports - 58,185m EUR; Imports - 57,546m EUR. Ratio = 1.01

• Greece: Exports - 1,785m EUR; Imports -3,240m EUR. Ratio = 0.55

I can go on and on come up with many articles outlining Greece's debt crisis and that it would have gone (and will go) bankrupt if it isn't treated as the spoilt brat of the EU who keeps on blaming others except itself.

Claim whatever you want, the situation between GRE and ROM is not for a comparison. Louis' said it all in a nutshell, while you are trying desperetely in frusration to convince yourself for something else...

I am not comparing Macedonia and Hellarse. I am responding to Lois's statement by providing facts.
I haven't stated that Macedonia's economy is great but I can say that lazy Greece is in a much worse position. To remind you again Greece has had a 160 odd year head start ahead of Macedonia and shouldn't blame anyone for their self imposed debt-crisis.

Lately I read an article that about 11000 macedonians are working in the greek tourism industry during the high saison, and now I'm wondering why they do so if the situation in their homeland is such better. I'll tell you why: Because they are kind and rational thinking hardworking citizens who know that a few months working in Greece brings enough income to pursuit a decent life back at home.

Lately I read a lot of Greeks including escorts seek to escape the crisis in Lazy Greece. They are looking for jobs with a higher pay and to have a better life. What does that mean?

[Louis]

George S.,

The new Greek government tries hard to give signs of determination, but it’s already proven there was no reason for the second (June) elections. Well, actually, there was no reason for the first (May) elections either. They will probably take all the austerity measures agreed with troika, if they can, but we will finally know that by the end of September. Most in the government still don’t believe in the effectiveness of these unpopular measures and claim they will renegotiate the bail-out agreement.

People pay their taxes, otherwise their property is confiscated or they go to jail.

Greece is the only European-Union Member with a real debt crisis. Ireland and Portugal are already in the troika support mechanism; Cyprus, Spain and Italy are on the doorstep. Yet, for all these countries the problem is either a banking one or is mostly a (growing) anomaly of the Euro currency.
Hungary (that has its’ own currency) has also a problem and is currently under IMF control.

Will our government wipe itself off the map? I don’t know what that means. Yes, the new government (supported by 3 parties) can fall at any minute. Eurogroup will supposedly take grant decisions in autumn, probably putting a new treaty on the table for all member states. That may bring huge dilemmas and elections or referendums in many of the 27 countries.

If one has worked both in Greece and Australia, he will probably be taking partial pensions from both countries, I don’t really know. Greece does not give pensions to all its’ citizens if that’s what you mean.

[George S.]

in australia the pension age is 65,i hear in greece it was 40?is this right for people to retire this early?In australia they are thinking of putting the retirement to 67.There dopesn't seem to be enough people working to pay the pension.Definitely there are far too many in greece avoiding paying their taxes.What i was saying of the govt doing harsh & silly things which if put to action will destroy the economy.If they are just experimenting & not knowing the full consequences of their actions.Allready friends are saying that some people are packing their bags & are leaving greece until things improve.

[damian]

you guys are talking past eachother it doesnt make sense to point fingers when there is a generalised crisis

[George S.]

were talking of the couple of problems of what got greece into trouble like early pensions & people not paying taxes.Apart from other things.Well who knows if the austerity measures will work they just say if adopted they will work.When is the retiring age in canada?In oz it's 67.was 65.

[SirGeorge8600]

Sir george i wonder if a greek gets say the australian govt pension does that mean they can get the greek pension as well if they live in greece.Perhaps the greeks could do all this & more if they were a rich oil country like lybia or the arabs with lots of oil wells.What a life drinking coffee all day,the beach,a life of leaisure & pleasure.Not only that but if there wasn't any taxes,for someone else to pay them what a life.

I can't speak for Greeks in Australia since I know none, but here in America they are actually quite hard working with a lot of entrepreneurs. It's no doubt that this economic corruption has been nurtured into Greeks in Greece from a government that does it worst. I mean here in the US we would never think of dodging taxes and be horrified of the IRS if we did. In Greece it's done non-chalant and there isn't any authority to punish them.

[Louis]

George S.,
The pension age in Greece is 65, it's not... 40. It also depends on the number of years you have worked. For instance if you have worked a full 40 years, you can retire at 60 and get full pension. One can also retire earlier, after completing a number of working years and receive a smaller pension.