Financial Crisis in Greece

[Niko777]

People line up to buy potatoes at a university campus in Thessaloniki, Greece, on Friday. Staff and students at the university ordered potatoes directly from a group of producers and arranged for them to be sold directly to consumers at the campus. The idea to cut out profiteering middlemen, started by a local activist group in another Greek town a few days ago, has led several other towns and groups to seek advice on emulating the action.

Looks like a scene from a communist country during a food shortage

[George S.]

I hope the greeks suffer because they are the ones propping the govt.maybe they can play one potato two potato.

[Risto the Great]

Looks like a scene from a communist country during a food shortage

For a second there I thought the Greeks had already changed their currency to potatoes and the picture was of a Greek Bank.

[fatso]

From Euro's to Gyro's ?

[Risto the Great]

From Euro's to Gyro's ?

I could do one right now lol

[Onur]

Good news for Greece;

All international rating agencies has lowered Greece`s credit rating to the lowest possible level, meaning "defaulted", therefor the good news is, there wont be any further credit rating cuts anymore

Greek default still on the cards
Moody's Investors Service on Friday cut Greece's sovereign debt rating to the lowest possible level after a debt-restructuring deal that imposes hefty economic losses for private creditors.

Moody's lowered Greece's local and foreign-currency bond ratings a notch to C from Ca, becoming the third credit rating agency to downgrade the country following the announcement of the swap deal to lighten its debt burden.

Moody's says that bonds rated C "are the lowest rated class and are typically in default, with little prospect for recovery of principal or interest." The rating agency added that it did not assign any future outlook.

"The announced debt exchange proposal," the credit rating agency said in a statement, "implies that private creditors that participate will incur substantial economic losses on their holdings of the Greek government debt."

On Monday, Standard & Poor's cut Greece's long-term ratings to "selective default," the second ratings agency to proceed with a widely expected downgrade after the country announced the bond swap.
Greece formally launched the bond swap a week ago.

Under the deal, which is part of a second 130-billion-euro rescue package to claw Greece back from the brink of a disorderly default, bondholders will take losses of 53.5 percent on the nominal value of their Greek holdings, with actual losses put at around 74 percent.

According to Moody's, "the announced proposal for private sector involvement, a precondition for the provision of further financial assistance from the euro area, would constitute a distressed exchange, and hence a default, on Greek government bonds."

The rating agency makes a distinction between a distressed exchange - where investors are losing money - and an outright default that is likely to happen when the exchange does not take place. "Both these conditions are met in this case," Moody's said.

When the Eurogroup's assessment has been finalized and debt exchanges have been completed, Moody's will re-assess the credit risk profile and ratings of any outstanding or new securities issued by the Greek government.

Moodys' concludes that "the risk of default even after the debt exchange has been completed remains high," and any upward movements in Greece's sovereign ratings after the debt exchange. (Reuters)

http://www.athensnews.gr/portal/11/53765

[Brian]

LOL.Maybe Voltron's right? Macedonians being Greeks????

You know that this idiot Traianos needs to change his name first to be a Greek? The name Traianos is a Greco-fide corupt version of the Macedonian Trajan which come from the word Traj ie to last (long), be steadfast. I don't think Traianos has the same meaning in Greek. The roots of his name are that obvious, so where does this dick-head get off being Greek? Make him change his name first.

And just to make it funnier Ne Del is No part/divide so his (former?) surname has elements of 'undivided'.LOL 'Steadfast Undivided' gives up to be Greek!LOL.

Janissary Traianos Dellas/Nedelkov may enter Greek Parliament

http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/20475/46/

01 March 2012
According to information coming out of Athens, there will be another ethnic Macedonian that is likely to enter Greek Parliament. It's famous football player Traianos Dellas, whose original last name is Nedelkov and is well known for his hatred towards Macedonia despite both of his parents being ethnic Macedonians. 'Dellas' grew up speaking Macedonian, but today similarly to former PM Karamanlis is the biggest "Greek" of all.

However, Dellas would not be the only ethnic Macedonian MP in Athens. Another Macedonian MP in Greek Parliament is Aggelos Tolkas, who just few days ago was attacked at a Restaurant in Negush (Naoussa) for voting 'yes' for Greece's austerity measures. The mob attacked mostly his food, according to local reports Tolkas had his meal stolen.

Tolkas' family hails from Veshtica (Agelohori) where the main language spoken is Macedonian. He too, just like his family speaks Macedonian. During the election campaign, when needing votes, Tolkas was known to visit Macedonian villages in the Negush region and mingle with locals who in turn saw him as "their own".

Tolkas was very clever and spoke Macedonian only when needed, i.e. when he needed votes for Parliament. He never was involved or helped ethnic Macedonians who waged battles in and outside of Greek Parliament for more rights. His re-election is now very much in doubt. Greeks saw him as a sell out, while the Macedonians were very disappointed with his attitude towards them once he was elected.
Although Tolkas was of no help to the Macedonians, he was no match for another ethnic Macedonian Stelious Papathemelis who was one of the most famous jannisary against the Macedonians in Greece.

Papathemelis was born in the village of Visoka, near Solun. In 1928 Athens ironically changed the name of the village by giving it another Macedonian name (Osa).

Papathemelis was a Minister in multiple PASOK Governments. His most famous statement is "If Skopjans feel they are Macedonians, then they are Greeks, only Greeks are Macedonians". <-- This came from an ethnic Macedonian in Greece.

Papathemelos was replaced by another ethnic Macedonian, Yorgos Tanos who was born in the village of Javoreni (Platani). More Macedonians from the Voden and Lerin (Florina) region were involved in Greek politics - Traianos Petkanis born in Ovcarani and Pavlos Altinis from Gorno Vrbeni, however none managed to climb higher on the ladder.

The Mayor of Lerin (Florina) today, Yiannis Voskopoulos is by far the most interesting case of all. He is first cousin of none other but Pavle Filipov Voskopoulos who is the leading Macedonian activist in Greece and member of Vinozhito.


Pavle, of course has stated publicly on many occasions that he is an ethnic Macedonian, has even gotten few minutes of air time on Greek national TV. Yiannis on the other hand speaks fluent Macedonian (just like his cousin) and has stated publicly that he is a Greek and there is no such thing as Macedonians.
Talk about a man without a soul!?

Lastly, footballer Traianos Dellas/Nedelkov, another ethnic Macedonian who is well known to the Macedonian public after controversial remarks at a press conference during UEFA Cup match between AS Roma and FC Vardar.

When asked about his origins by a Macedonian journalist (in Macedonian), Dellas/Nedelkov didn't wait for a translation, but answered that he was Greek and is aware of only 'Greek Macedonia'.

Traianos has been offered an MP seat with the LAOS party, so we may have another Macedonian Janissary in Greek Parliament. It seems that everyone, Dellas included will end up where they need to end up.

[Stojacanec]

Looks like a scene from a communist country during a food shortage

Those Greeks don't look to hard up, aren't they wearing ray bands?

[Brian]

Those Greeks don't look to hard up, aren't they wearing ray bands?

Even with Ray Bands or a Rolex a thief/swindler will always look for anything free/cheap, even a free feed.

[lavce pelagonski]

The grkomans are the worst people, just look at the deranged lunatics at the grkomani/puskari council.

[George S.]

heaps of deranged grkpman on the puskari council.

[Niko777]

44 arrested in Greece for antiquities trafficking after more than 9,000 coins seized

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/44-arrested-in-greece-for-antiquities-trafficking-after-more-than-9000-coins-seized/2012/03/04/gIQAKD2ArR_story.html

By Associated Press, Updated: Sunday, March 4, 5:47 PM

POLYGYROS, Greece — Greek police arrested a total of 44 people for illegal antiquities trafficking after they investigated the group’s moves for months, officials said Sunday.

Police said they confiscated 9,200 silver and bronze coins dating from the 6th century B.C. to Byzantine times (4th to 15th century A.D.). They also confiscated 300 “small artifacts.”

The ringleader of the group, a 66-year-old retired customs official, would often travel abroad to arrange for the sale of the coins, police said. He, along with his two brothers, a daughter-in-law and another relative, formed the core of the group, while the other 39 would excavate in several places in northern and central Greece at the ringleader’s request.

“We conducted 55 separate searches on Saturday,” regional police chief Vassilis Kanalis said in northern Polygyros, 580 kilometers (360 miles) northeast of Athens. “This was the culmination of a great investigation which began six months ago.”

The suspects made depositions to an examining magistrate.

The most valuable coin, according to experts, is a silver coin from the era of Alexander the Great (4th century B.C.) in which Alexander is depicted as an eagle on one side, while the other shows his father and predecessor as King of Macedonia, Philip II.

“We are talking about a huge treasure, which ... was smuggled and sold abroad in small quantities,” another regional police chief, Constantine Papoutsis, said.

In the past six months, the ringleader made several trips abroad — to Bulgaria, Switzerland, Germany, Great Britain and the U.S. — presumably in search of clients. He traveled often, sometimes twice a week.

“The case has a lot of depth. There are likely other persons involved, whom we will look for,” Papoutsis said.

[Brian]

Well it almost happened - "Greece is ready to explode"
and now
It's almost about to happen again, although this time with MONEY.

To bad guys, I think you all lost you bets on when Greece is going to declare bankruptcy.

Voltron your buying the Ouzos and beers this round, next round, and every round.

Just imagine if Macedonians still had control over the Aegean part, we might all be going back to Macedonia to live and the Albanians would be 0.25% and not 25% of the population.

"Fakalaki" (read F'n lucky) Greeks and who says there's no oil in Syria - reason enough for spreading more of the USA's 'human rights'. And any wonder the Greeks and Israelis are new best buds.

Rising Energy Tensions in the Aegean—Greece, Turkey, Cyprus, Syria

http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2012/03/04/the-new-mediterranean-oil-gas-bonanza-part-ii/#more-12666

4. March 2012
The discovery in late 2010 of the huge natural gas bonanza off Israel’s Mediterranean shores triggered other neighboring countries to look more closely at their own waters. The results revealed that the entire eastern Mediterranean is swimming in huge untapped oil and gas reserves. That discovery is having enormous political, geopolitical as well as economic consequences. It well may have potential military consequences too.

Preliminary exploration has confirmed similarly impressive reserves of gas and oil in the waters off Greece, Turkey, Cyprus and potentially, Syria.
Greek ‘energy Sirtaki’

Not surprisingly, amid its disastrous financial crisis the Greek government began serious exploration for oil and gas. Since then the country has been in a curious kind of a dance with the IMF and EU governments, a kind of “energy Sirtaki” over who will control and ultimately benefit from the huge resource discoveries there.

In December 2010, as it seemed the Greek crisis might still be resolved without the by-now huge bailouts or privatizations, Greece’s Energy Ministry formed a special group of experts to research the prospects for oil and gas in Greek waters. Greece’s Energean Oil & Gas began increased investment into drilling in the offshore waters after a successful smaller oil discovery in 2009. Major geological surveys were made. Preliminary estimates now are that total offshore oil in Greek waters exceeds 22 billion barrels in the Ionian Sea off western Greece and some 4 billion barrels in the northern Aegean Sea.[1]
The southern Aegean Sea and Cretan Sea are yet to be explored, so the numbers could be significantly higher. An earlier Greek National Council for Energy Policy report stated that “Greece is one of the least explored countries in Europe regarding hydrocarbon (oil and gas-w.e.) potentials.”[2] According to one Greek analyst, Aristotle Vassilakis, “surveys already done that have measured the amount of natural gas estimate it to reach some nine trillion dollars.” [3] Even if only a fraction of that is available, it would transform the finances of Greece and the entire region.

Tulane University oil expert David Hynes told an audience in Athens recently that Greece could potentially solve its entire public debt crisis through development of its new-found gas and oil. He conservatively estimates that exploitation of the reserves already discovered could bring the country more than €302 billion over 25 years. The Greek government instead has just been forced to agree to huge government layoffs, wage cuts and pension cuts to get access to a second EU and IMF loan that will only drive the country deeper into an economic decline. [4]

Notably, the IMF and EU governments, among them Germany, demand instead that Greece sell off its valuable ports and public companies, among them of course, Greek state oil companies, to reduce state debt. Under the best of conditions the asset selloffs would bring the country perhaps €50 billion.[5] Plans call for the Greek state-owned natural gas company, DEPA, to privatize 65% of its shares to reduce debt.[6] Buyers would likely come from outside the country, as few Greek companies are in a position in the crisis to take it.

One significant problem, aside from the fact the IMF demands Greece selloff its public oil interests, is the fact that Greece has not declared a deeper exclusive economic zone like most other countries which drill for oil. There was seen little need until now. An Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ) gives a state special mineral rights in its declared waters under the Third United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), which came into force in November 1994. Under UNCLOS III, a nation can claim an EEZ of 200 nautical miles from its coastline.[7]

Turkey has previously stated it would consider it an act of war if Greece drilled further into the Aegean. [8] Until now that did not seem to have serious economic consequences, as no oil or gas reserves were known. Now it’s an entirely different ballgame.

Evangelos Kouloumbis, former Greek Industry Minister recently stated that Greece could cover “50% its needs with the oil to be found in offshore fields in the Aegean Sea, and the only obstacle to that is the Turkish opposition for an eventual Greek exploitation.”[9]

Hillary dances the Sirtaki too…

In July 2011 Washington joined the Greek energy Sirtaki. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton flew to Athens with energy on her mind. That was clear by the fact she brought with her her Special Envoy for Eurasian Energy, Richard Morningstar. Morningstar was husband Bill Clinton’s Special Advisor to the President on Caspian Basin Energy Diplomacy, and one of the Washington strategic operatives in the geopolitical battles to dismember the Soviet Union and surround a chaos-ridden Russia with hostile pro-NATO former states of the USSR. Morningstar, along with his controversial aide, Matthew Bryza, have been the key Washington architects of Washington’s geopolitically-motivated oil and gas pipeline projects that would isolate Russia and its Gazprom gas resources from the EU. Bryza is an open opponent of Russian Gazprom’s South Stream gas pipeline that would transit the eastern Mediterranean states.[10] Clearly the Obama Administration is not at all neutral about the new Greek oil and gas discoveries. Three days after Hillary left Athens the Greek government proposed creation of a new government agency to run tenders for oil and gas surveys and ultimate drilling bids.

Morningstar is the US specialist in economic warfare against Russian energy diplomacy. He was instrumental in backing the controversial B-T-C oil pipeline from Baku through Tbilisi in Georgia across to the Turkish Mediterranean port of Ceyhan, a costly enterprise designed solely to bypass Russian oil pipeline transit. He has openly proposed that Greece and Turkey drop all historic differences over Cyprus, over numerous other historic issues and agree to jointly pool all their oil and gas reserves in the Aegean Sea. He also has told the Greek government it should forget cooperation with Moscow on the South Stream and Bourgas-Alexandroupolis gas pipeline projects. [11]

According to a report from Greek political analyst Aristotle Vassilakis published in July 2011, Washington’s motive for pushing Greece to join forces with Turkey on oil and gas is to force a formula to divide resulting oil and gas revenues. According to his report, Washington proposes that Greece get 20% of revenues, Turkey another 20% and the US-backed Noble Energy Company of Houston Texas, the company successfully drilling in the Israeli and Greek offshore waters, would get the lion’s share of 60%.[12]

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton’s husband, Bill, is a Washington lobbyist for Noble Energy. [13]

And some Cyprus complications…
As if these geopolitical complications were not enough, Noble Energy, has also discovered huge volumes of gas off the waters of the Republic of Cyprus. In December 2011 Noble announced a successful well offshore Cyprus in a field estimated to hold at least 7 trillion cubic feet of natural gas. Noble’s CEO, Charles Davidson remarked to the press, “This latest discovery in Cyprus further highlights the quality and significance of this world-class basin.” [14]

Cyprus is a complicated piece of real estate. In the 1970’s as declassified US Government documents recently revealed, then-US Secretary of State Henry Kissinger actively encouraged and facilitated arms to the Turkish regime of Kissinger’s former Harvard student and then- Prime Minister Bulent Ecevit, to stage a military invasion of Cyprus in 1974, in effect partitioning the island between an ethnically Turkish north and an ethnically Greek Republic of Cyprus in the south, a division which remains. The Kissinger strategy, backed by the British was believed intended to create a pretext for a permanent US and British military listening post in the eastern Mediterranean during the Cold War.[15]

Today the ethnically Greek south, where Noble has discovered large gas deposits, is a member of the EU. Its President, Demetris Christofias, is the only national leader in the European Union who is a communist. He is also a close friend of Israel, and of Russia. In addition, he is a major critic of American foreign policy, as well as of Turkey.[16]

Now Israel is planning to build an underwater gas pipeline from the Israeli Levantine fields across Cyprus waters onto the Greek mainland where it would be sold on the EU market. The Cyprus and Israel governments have mutually agreed on delimitation of their respective economic zones, leaving Turkey in the cold. Turkey openly threatened Cyprus for signing the agreement with Noble Energy. That led to a Russian statement that it would not tolerate Turkish threats against Cyprus, further complicating Turkish-Russian relations. [17]

Turkish-Israeli relations, once quite friendly, have become increasingly strained in recent years under the Erdogan foreign policies. Ankara has expressed concern about Israel’s recent ties with its historic antagonists, Greece and the Greek side of Cyprus. Turkey’s ally the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus, fears it could miss out on its fair share of the gas after Israel and Nicosia signed an agreement to divide the 250 kilometers of sea that separate them.[18]

It becomes evident, especially when we glance at a map of the eastern Mediterranean, that the oil and gas prospective bonanza there is a rapidly unfolding conflict zone of tectonic magnitude involving strategic US, Russian, EU, Israeli and Turkish, Syrian and Lebanese interests.

[Onur]

Mediterranean&Aegean energy issue is quite complicated. Actually the existence of oil sources here was quite known since 1950s and now, we know that there is natural gas too.

Greek National Council for Energy Policy report stated that “Greece is one of the least explored countries in Europe regarding hydrocarbon (oil and gas-w.e.) potentials.”[2]

It`s because Greece claims that the Agean sea is some kind of Greek lake due to small uninhabited islets awarded to them by Brits after WW-1. Turkey refuses this and never allows Greeks to do any oil&gas extraction while not doing any oil exploration himself either.

Tulane University oil expert David Hynes told an audience in Athens recently that Greece could potentially solve its entire public debt crisis through development of its new-found gas and oil. He conservatively estimates that exploitation of the reserves already discovered could bring the country more than €302 billion over 25 years. The Greek government instead has just been forced to agree to huge government layoffs, wage cuts and pension cuts to get access to a second EU and IMF loan that will only drive the country deeper into an economic decline. [4]

Sometimes i think like maybe the elites behind the curtain purposely drives Greece into the bankruptcy if these estimates are true for oil&gas reserves. I wouldn't be surprise if they purposely sink Greece to the bottom to be able to leech all the oil&gas reserves and say "ok, we take your share too as a repayment of your debts, we can give you some oil and some more used tanks, fighter jets etc."

One significant problem, aside from the fact the IMF demands Greece selloff its public oil interests, is the fact that Greece has not declared a deeper exclusive economic zone like most other countries which drill for oil. There was seen little need until now. An Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ) gives a state special mineral rights in its declared waters under the Third United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), which came into force in November 1994. Under UNCLOS III, a nation can claim an EEZ of 200 nautical miles from its coastline.[7]

Turkey has previously stated it would consider it an act of war if Greece drilled further into the Aegean. [8] Until now that did not seem to have serious economic consequences, as no oil or gas reserves were known. Now it’s an entirely different ballgame.

Did you see the Greece`s so-called "exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ)" maps, published by Greek newspapers? This is what they wanna do for the last 20-30 years but Turkey announced that if they dares to announce this map as their EEZ, then Turkey will consider this as an act of war;


According to the map here, Turkey`s EEZ only consists of my bathtub in Izmir! So, this means that Turkey with more than 7500 km. of maritime borders absolutely have no EEZ but Greece with half of our maritime borders, have an EEZ covering whole Aegean&mediterranean sea. Already the east mediterrianian side supposedly belongs to the Greek Cypriot&Israeli state and neither Turkey nor the Turkish Cypriots doesn't get shit (!!!)

According to a report from Greek political analyst Aristotle Vassilakis published in July 2011, Washington’s motive for pushing Greece to join forces with Turkey on oil and gas is to force a formula to divide resulting oil and gas revenues. According to his report, Washington proposes that Greece get 20% of revenues, Turkey another 20% and the US-backed Noble Energy Company of Houston Texas, the company successfully drilling in the Israeli and Greek offshore waters, would get the lion’s share of 60%.[12]

This is "THE plan" of the international oil cartels. Greece is already a bankrupt EU colony, they cannot refuse anything but only problem is Turkey.

Maybe now you guys understand why western world never supports Turkish side for the Cypriot issue and always ignores Turkish Cypriots in the island because it`s much easier to convince Greeks. After the economical crisis, Greece is not even a minor nuisance anymore because their ass owned by the international money barons now. While the picture is totally different with Turkey. Turkey has the enough manpower and economics to explore and then extract oil&gas. Turkey doesn't need Israeli or US oil companies. If things goes not well, Turkey can always do that with Russians or Chinese too. I mean, if Noble energy company would offer 20% to Turkey, we could say "fck off" and go to the Chinese but Greeks cannot do that.

While i was reading this, i saw a funny picture on facebook and it`s perfectly suits to this issue. Turkey`s answer for all the stupid Greek claims would only be this;

[Brian]

Actually the existence of oil sources here was quite known since 1950s and now, we know that there is natural gas too.


Sometimes i think like maybe the elites behind the curtain purposely drives Greece into the bankruptcy if these estimates are true for oil&gas reserves. I wouldn't be surprise if they purposely sink Greece to the bottom to be able to leech all the oil&gas reserves and say "ok, we take your share too as a repayment of your debts, we can give you some oil and some more used tanks, fighter jets etc."




This is "THE plan" of the international oil cartels. Greece is already a bankrupt EU colony, they cannot refuse anything but only problem is Turkey.

Maybe now you guys understand why western world never supports Turkish side for the Cypriot issue and always ignores Turkish Cypriots in the island because it`s much easier to convince Greeks. After the economical crisis, Greece is not even a minor nuisance anymore because their ass owned by the international money barons now. While the picture is totally different with Turkey. Turkey has the enough manpower and economics to explore and then extract oil&gas. Turkey doesn't need Israeli or US oil companies.

Spot on! Good connection of the dots Onur.
Watch out, people will start calling you a 'conspiracy theorist' now.LOL.
You missed just one more bit - impoverish EU countries by putting them into debt by bailing out Greece.

Don't you love the way the plans fall into place - made money out of hiding Greece's true financial status to get them in the EU and scoop up from the flow of money coming to Greece during the 'good years'. Then make money from the bailouts (ie take EU taxpayers' money) and then make money from Greece's public assets being sold cheaply and then own Greece's oil. Everything like dominoes falling.