Financial Crisis in Greece

[Stojacanec]

These Greeks are hilarious, even the so called experts. The guy in the video thinks in order to fix the problem is to centralise the banks and debts i.e. centralise the greek financial crisis.

For people who have made a career out of telling Macedonians what identity they have or have not, when it comes to money and debts, we are all supposed to be European.

The hypocrisy is disturbing.

Average pensions in Macedonia are around 200 euros a month whereas the minimum greek pension starts at 450 euros.

Greek economists need to base their pensions and salaries on the profit margins of their olives and ouzo because that is all their industry is able to offer.

The greek economy is in free fall and where she stops, nobody knows.

[Onur]

Average pensions in Macedonia are around 200 euros a month whereas the minimum greek pension starts at 450 euros.

Well, you have to consider purchase power too because Greece is in the eurozone and the expenses in there should be much higher than Macedonia.

I mean, you can buy more for 200 euros in Macedonia than Greece. For example, minimum salary&retiring pension in Turkey is about ~400 euros but food, clothing, health care products, housing prices in Turkey is much cheaper than Greece. Probably oil&gas, electronics prices are same but the rest should be cheaper. So, i am just making up the numbers but someone with 400 Euros in Turkey should have same living standards with a person having 600 Euros in Greece. It should be same for Macedonia.

This is quite evident in tourism sector. Average holiday in Turkey costs half of the the one in Greece despite that the facilities and overall quality is much better in Turkey. The reason is; their expenses are higher there, so they have no way to compete with Turkey`s prices. We have vast lands in Turkey, construction&housing materials are made in Turkey, thus cheap without long transportation cost, foods are local, there are many young people who can work etc. While in Greece, they have limited lands, construction&housing materials imported from Germany, foods imported from Turkey, Bulgaria, Macedonia, less workforce who demands high salary in euros.

This will never change unless they return to drachma and devalue their currency to an attractive level for international tourists. So, actually we have to thank EU that they accepted Greece to the euro, so they indirectly boosted Turkish tourism while killing Greek one.

[Stojacanec]

Well, you have to consider purchase power too because Greece is in the eurozone and the expenses in there should be much higher than Macedonia.

I mean, you can buy more for 200 euros in Macedonia than Greece. For example, minimum salary&retiring pension in Turkey is about ~400 euros but food, clothing, health care products, housing prices in Turkey is much cheaper than Greece. Probably oil&gas, electronics prices are same but the rest should be cheaper. So, i am just making up the numbers but someone with 400 Euros in Turkey should have same living standards with a person having 600 Euros in Greece. It should be same for Macedonia.

This is quite evident in tourism sector. Average holiday in Turkey costs half of the the one in Greece despite that the facilities and overall quality is much better in Turkey. The reason is; their expenses are higher there, so they have no way to compete with Turkey`s prices. We have vast lands in Turkey, construction&housing materials are made in Turkey, thus cheap without long transportation cost, foods are local, there are many young people who can work etc. While in Greece, they have limited lands, construction&housing materials imported from Germany, foods imported from Turkey, Bulgaria, Macedonia, less workforce who demands high salary in euros.

This will never change unless they return to drachma and devalue their currency to an attractive level for international tourists. So, actually we have to thank EU that they accepted Greece to the euro, so they indirectly boosted Turkish tourism while killing Greek one.

Expensive or not the larger proportion of Macedonian pensions is more like 100 - 200 Euros per month whereas greek pensions can be as high as 2500 euro a month.

A very lopsided affair when you see greece has no industry to live like royalty.

And the price of foods such as meat and petrol are more like here in Australia for the Macedonians.

Onur, I understand your happiness for an expensive greek euro and the spinoff for the Turkish economy.

However I will not be happy until the greeks fall off their royal perch to where they really lie. I don’t like seeing people suffer but for the only reason that paid propaganda, vetos, disputes and economic blockades have been directed from the Greeks towards the Macedonians.

[Brian]

What are you talking about...?


greece is already experiencing 20%+ unemployment, economic uncertainty and now a run on the banking system...the "unbearable poverty" is just around the corner...

Precisely my point...it's not as bad NOW as they are making it out to be.

If the current crisis isn't turned around very quickly greece will lose a generation of professionals, the middle class and entrepreneur's...greece will suffer the same fate as South Africa.

Exactly, "will loose".

Can't wait for there total destruction.

[Brian]

Well, you have to consider purchase power too because Greece is in the eurozone and the expenses in there should be much higher than Macedonia.

I mean, you can buy more for 200 euros in Macedonia than Greece. For example, minimum salary&retiring pension in Turkey is about ~400 euros but food, clothing, health care products, housing prices in Turkey is much cheaper than Greece. Probably oil&gas, electronics prices are same but the rest should be cheaper. So, i am just making up the numbers but someone with 400 Euros in Turkey should have same living standards with a person having 600 Euros in Greece. It should be same for Macedonia.

Exactly right - the whingers.

[Voltron]

Ok, and now the truth.

Are Greeks the hardest workers in Europe?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17155304

But the statistics suggest the country has not lost its way due to laziness. If you look at the average annual hours worked by each worker, the Greeks seem very hard-working.

Figures from the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) show that the average Greek worker toils away for 2,017 hours per year which is more than any other European country.

Out of the 34 members of the OECD, that is just two places behind the board leaders, South Korea.

On the other hand, the average German worker - normally thought of as the very epitome of industriousness - only manages 1,408 hours a year. Germany is 33rd out of 34 on the OECD list (or 24th out of 25 looking at the European countries alone).

Only one other OECD country's workers put in fewer hours, and that's the Netherlands with 1,377 hours.

The average Greek is working a full 40% longer than the average German.

But there is more to these figures than meets the eye. There are two big reasons why these two countries have such different annual working hour totals.
Greek olive farmers planting tree Greeks take less holiday, sickness leave and maternity leave than Germans

Pascal Marianna, who is a labour markets statistician at the OECD says: "The Greek labour market is composed of a large number of people who are self-employed, meaning farmers and - on the other hand - shop-keepers who are working long hours."

Self-employed workers tend to work more than those who have specified hours in an employment contract.

The second reason Mr Marianna points to is the different number of part-time workers in each country.

"In Germany, the share of employees working part-time is quite high. This represents something like one in four," he says.

As these annual hours figures are for all workers, the large proportion who work part-time in Germany is bringing down the overall average. In Greece, far fewer people work part-time.

So, because the two labour markets are structured differently, it is actually hard to compare like with like.

If you account for these factors by stripping away part-time and self-employed people and look only at full-time salaried workers, the Greeks are still working almost 10% more hours than the Germans.

This is because the Germans take more holiday, sickness leave and maternity leave - on average four weeks more than the Greeks.

[DirtyCodingHabitz]

But in fact, every sane person should be aware that these people are the Australians, not you;

I keep telling the "true aussies" that they aren't natives and that they themselves are just citizens of the country/continent. But you'll just end up arguing since they are raised with aussie pride and they feel that they are the owners of this country.

They won't even accept the fact that Australia is a continent, or a country with countries.

You are a Macedonian who happened to be born in Australia but you are not an Australian, you are just a citizen of Australia.

I know that . But majority of Australians don't understand the difference between nationality and ethnicity. I keep saying that I'm Macedonian and I'm only a citizen of Australia, nothing more.

But to them everyone is Australian. Those that don't accept it "they can fuck off back to their country". Pretty much Australia is nationalizing their citizens so that everyone is forced to accept being an Australian, anyone else that thinks otherwise is a wog or immigrant.

But thats not the case in Europe. No matter how much they try, they cant create united states of Europe.

Who knows. Your average person is pretty much stupid and believes everything what the media or government says. It only takes 2 generations to brainwash a sheeple nation.

Just look at us Macedonians. We have so many bugarofils and srbomani, even in politics. That's because each time we've been occupied everyone has been telling us to be different and think differently and become something new or part of another nation.

[Voltron]

But majority of Australians don't understand the difference between nationality and ethnicity. I keep saying that I'm Macedonian and I'm only a citizen of Australia, nothing more.

But to them everyone is Australian. Those that don't accept it "they can fuck off back to their country".

This is the way it supposed to be. And they are right, you dont like it ? Go back to where your "roots" are.

Thats the way it is in America, and I wouldnt expect anybody I know in America to trade in that for their ethnic background. At the end of the day that is exactly what the word implies "back"ground not where they are at and who they are today.

[Valmir]

the Greeks are still working almost 10% more hours than the Germans.

It is not who does more hours, its about the Productivity!
A Greek can work 24 hours but he is going to produce some fruits, while a German is going to produce a BMW

[Voltron]

I was addressing the laziness remark. We are a country based more on services rather than manufacturing. This is where I fault all Greek governments up to today. Their lack of vision, union complacency and corruption. Hell, even Romania produces a car (Dacia).

What we need is to have this country run by our Diaspora, not these anachronistic socialist has been's.

[DirtyCodingHabitz]

This is the way it supposed to be. And they are right, you dont like it ? Go back to where your "roots" are.

LOL. If they aren't native to the country then I'll just say the same thing back to them.

[Voltron]

Your missing the point. They are not the ones putting their "background" in front their present identity. You are.

[Risto the Great]

Figures from the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) show that the average Greek worker toils away for 2,017 hours per year which is more than any other European country.

Are you sure the spelling is right or Greeks spend 2,017 hours a year in the toilet. Because that is the only way such negligible productivity numbers can be realised.

Yeah, everyone is an olive farmer in Greece. Lots'o'hours there.

Thanks for the "truth". Got any more pearlers?

Results count and there isn't much to count in Greece.

[Voltron]

I didnt come up with the stats.

We have a large agriculter industry. Whats wrong with that ?

[DirtyCodingHabitz]

Your missing the point. They are not the ones putting their "background" in front their present identity. You are.

And that still doesn't make them native people no matter what they choose to be.