Financial Crisis in Greece

[George S.]

.i think they should be called hellarses or even hellasses thats because all they do sit on their behinds & collect their salaries.

[Bill77]

Chatzimarkakis Greece to be renamed Hellas

http://www.vest.mk/?ItemID=F5A658884...A9DE8D6F7C41DE

Greece over debt crisis facing needs a new image, says German MEP of Greek origin and George Chatzimarkakis proposed new name for international use that will help the country's new beginning.

Therefore, they would need a new National Anthem.
May i suggest this.

Benny Hill Theme Tune - YouTube

[Brian]

The Monster attacks Dr. Frankenstein! Will it be the death of both of them or will 'mother's love' even for a child 'only a mother could love' prevail?

Greeks Burn German Flags in Athens







Tuesday, 07 February 2012
Around 10,000 protesters gathered in Athens.

While Greeks were allowed to burn German flags, Athens police jumped into action and prevented the burning of a German Nazi flag. Odd!

[makedonche]

Therefore, they would need a new National Anthem.
May i suggest this.

Benny Hill Theme Tune - YouTube

Bill77
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think you'd be offending Benny Hill by allowing them to associate with him!

[makedonche]

Does this mean the end of Greece? Is that like "Hellas" as in Hellish Ass of a place?

These Greeks have no shame, no honour, no integrity, they think they can ruin their name and just go out and get a new one - wtf? Somebody forget to tell them when they created this false nation, that you only get one name - look after it because once it's gone, that's it you don't get another one! Fucking dopes - they think they can put the baby back up the womb once it's born.

[DedoAleko]

It's Time To End the greek Rescue Farce

Whether it be an escrow account or a budget commissioner, the latest demands by Germany show just how absurd negotiations over greece's future have become. It is high time to bring an end to this tragicomedy...


For the past two years, greece has wrangled with the euro-zone states and the International Monetary Fund (IMF) over its so-called "rescue." Austerity measures have been agreed to, aid has been paid and private creditors have been forced to accept "voluntary" debt haircuts. Despite all this, greece is in even worse shape today than it was then. Its economy is shrinking, the debt ratio is rising and the country and its banks have been cut off from capital markets. There isn't even the slightest sign that the situation might improve. Something has gone very wrong with this rescue.

But none of the protagonists seem to have grasped this. They continue to negotiate as if things are business as usual, they let one "final ultimatum" after the other pass and they persistently fail to realize that their discussions have started to verge on the absurd. It would be a lot better to end this farce.
For weeks now, the greek government has been negotiating with private creditors and the troika comprised of the IMF, European Union and European Central Bank (ECB) over a second bailout package. But it is already clear that this aid package will not save the country. It appears it will only delay a greek insolvency -- and it will serve to create new hardships for the country's population.

It is time for politicians to admit that their carrot and stick strategy has failed. The idea that the country can be freed from its debt quagmire though austerity programs and aid pledges tied to conditions just isn't going to work. It won't even work if private creditors forgive part of the country's debt.

Broken Promises

For months, greek government politicians as well as the so-called rescuers in Berlin, Paris and Brussels have all been deceiving themselves. Each supposedly final rescue package is followed by yet another, and austerity pledges aren't being adhered to.

That has a lot to do with domestic political considerations. German Chancellor Angela Merkel and French President Nicolas Sarkozy must convey to their voters that they have the situation and, especially the greeks, under control. Meanwhile, the government in Athens must, out of self-preservation, limit the burdens to its own people as much as possible.

That's why both sides repeatedly agree to promises that everyone knows they will not be able to keep. The current rescue package, for example, officially agreed at the euro summit at the end of October, already has to be improved because it has become too small.

The greek economy is shrinking faster than assumed. And the austerity plan Greece approved last summer under pressure from its euro-zone partners is also failing to live up to expectations. That's no wonder, either, because €50 billion of the €78 billion in total savings pledged was tied to proceeds from privatizations that, not surprisingly, have failed to generate the profits expected.

Out of Thin Air

The truth is that it must have been obvious to all parties concerned, including the Germans, that the figures were pulled out of thin air. What kind of investor would invest so much money in a country that, for the foreseeable future, will be stuck in a serious economic depression?

The supposed rescue efforts have culminated in the latest German proposals. The German government would like to send a "budget commissioner" to Athens to keep an eye on the Greeks. If that doesn't work, then the Germans also want, at the very least, to be able to impound Greek accounts if they don't pay back their debts through an escrow account.

The suggestions have justifiably provoked outrage. Quite apart from the humiliation these measures would entail for the greeks, Athens would almost certainly find a way to circumvent them. In the end, Germany would wind up turning an entire nation into its enemy without even gaining anything.

greece Must Go Bankrupt

Perhaps, the greece rescuers on both sides of the negotiating table should try being honest for a change. Here's the truth: If the country is to lastingly reduce its mountain of debt and, at some point, be able to borrow money on the capital markets again, then it needs a comprehensive debt haircut. In other words, it needs to go bankrupt.

And it's not just private creditors who will have to forego a large part of their outstanding greek debts. It is also other European countries and the European Central Bank. That would be expensive for taxpayers across Europe, and it would also be economically risky. Indeed, no one knows what consequences a greek bankruptcy would have for other crisis-ridden countries like Portugal, Ireland or Italy. But at least it would be an honest solution.

Of course, things wouldn't stop there. The euro-zone states would also have to build a bigger firewall around the remaining crisis countries in order to prevent contagion. They would have to help some banks that get into trouble as a result of a debt cut. And they would have to provide Greece with a real opportunity to get back on its feet and start growing under its own steam -- in other words, a kind of Marshall Plan.
All this would be very expensive, and German taxpayers would also be forced to do what they have feared from Day One -- which is to pay for greece. But this solution has two major advantages. The payments would be limited, and they would actually help greece.

And unlike everything that has been negotiated up until now, the solution would also be worthy of being called a rescue package.

izvor: http://www.spiegel.de/international/...813919,00.html

http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/soziales/0,1518,813828,00.html

[Soldier of Macedon]

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/world/12860479/eurozone-stalls-greek-cash-aid-pending-new-conditions/

Eurozone stalls Greek cash aid pending new conditions

BRUSSELS (AFP) - Eurozone finance ministers refused Thursday to give their immediate backing to a second bailout for Greece despite a last-minute deal in Athens on austerity measures demanded by creditors.

After rival Greek parties agreed a fresh round of deep cuts, triggering another general strike in Greece, Luxembourg Prime Minister Jean-Claude Juncker said the Eurogroup of finance ministers may only decide on the rescue next week.

The ministers huddled in Brussels to review the deal reached in Athens aimed at unlocking a bailout package worth 130 billion euros ($171 billion) and prevent a devastating default.

Greek Finance Minister Evangelos Venizelos urged his counterparts to endorse the debt rescue after political leaders in Athens agreed on a new round of austerity.

But German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble warned that the purpose of talks would be "to make clear to Greece and the partners in the negotiations what are the conditions for a second agreement."

Four months after European Union leaders agreed to mount a second bailout, provided private sector creditors first agreed a massive write-down of their holdings, Juncker said there were simply too many "points to clear up."

But "if it's not tonight, it will be done next week," Juncker said, noting "enormous progress" on various fronts.

He said ministers had to "examine in detail the different strands on the table."

"After a long and tough period of negotiation, we finally have a staff level agreement with the troika for a new, strong and credible programme," Venizelos said, referring to the team of EU, IMF and European Central Bank auditors who negotiated with the Greek government.

"We now need the political endorsement of the Eurogroup for the final step," Venizelos added.

He said a deal had also been agreed on the "basic parameters" of a bond swap with private creditors, aimed at slashing 100 billion euros from Greece's 350-billion-euro ($465 billion) overall debts.

As they spoke, some 8,000 protesters had gathered on the streets of Athens on the eve of a 48-hour strike over what unions called "barbaric" wage and pension cuts.

Greek press reports said the monthly minimum wage would fall by 22 percent, to some 586 euros before taxes, paid 14 times a year.

Greece's debts amount to 160 percent of its gross domestic product, but its international backers are demanding that this be brought down to a maximum of 120 percent in 2020.

Some governments have said they will not pay a cent more than what was agreed in October, hence the pressure on Greece to squeeze out more savings from its recession-battered coffers.

Only then would the EU and the IMF hand over a loan package including sweeteners for Greece's ravaged banks.

The bond exchange though will take several weeks to perform, raising concerns whether it can completed before Greece faces 14.5 billion euros in payments due on March 20.

IMF managing director Christine Lagarde hailed what she said was "clearly some very encouraging news coming out of Athens."

However, she also cautioned: "There is still more to do."

"I think we're all agreed that there needs to be this labour market reform and the adjustment of wages to align more with productivity," IMF spokesman Gerry Rice added in Washington.

Greece faces elections in April to replace Prime Minister Lucas Papademos' caretaker government.

EU Economic Affairs Commissioner Olli Rehn stressed that the first step was for Greece to get its new spending plans through parliament over the coming days.

Some of its eurozone partners, such as the Netherlands, stressed that they also have to put any package to their parliaments.

The deal with the private creditors would likely see the face value of the 200 billion euros in bonds that they hold cut in half -- but their total losses may hit 70 percent given they will receive 30-year bonds at lower interest rates.

[Daskalot]

Greece is entering the end game, LAOS is rejecting the latest deal from the EU/IMF/ECB.
How will lazy frappe drinking Greeks get an income now? By exporting olives and feta cheese?

[Brian]

Just as I have been posting the banks don't want just Greece but want to 'bleed' every European country dry and then come in and by all government utilities to jack-up prices and force everyone's living standard down - economic serfdom.

Now Austrians are going to feel the bite of austerity measures.

Austrians face austerity package and tax hikes

http://news.monstersandcritics.com/business/news/article_1690364.php/Austrians-face-austerity-package-and-tax-hikes

Feb 10, 2012
Vienna - Austria's government on Friday announced budget cuts and higher taxes totalling nearly 27 billion euros (36 billion dollars) over the next five years to balance the budget until 2016.
The budget deficit had risen over the past year as the government spent money to cushion the effects of the global financial and economic crises.
'These costs have to be paid back,' Social Democratic Chancellor Werner Faymann said.
Recent months had shown that it was necessary 'not to wait like Greece, Spain, Portugal, even Italy, until interest rises so high that you are no longer the master of your own budget and have to negotiate with international funds,' he added.
Pensioners and public servants are to bear the brunt of the savings, through lower or deferred pay raises.
The government coalition of Social Democrats (SPOe) and the centre-right People's Party (OeVP) also aims to raise the average retirement age from 58 to 62 by paying early retirees less.
As a symbolic measure with little impact on the budget, the government would like to reduce the number of legislators and ministers by around 10 per cent - but downsizing parliament would need the agreement of the opposition.
Top earners, real estate investors and Austrian companies operating abroad are facing higher taxes.
Opposition parties said that the austerity measures did not contain structural reforms of public administration and the health sector, and that the financial industry and rich people were not taxed enough.
However, there were no calls for strikes or protests, as the state employees union and pensioner representatives were involved in the government negotiations.
The austerity package also includes a plan to scale down construction of the Brenner rail tunnel connecting Austria and Italy along a key trade route through the Alps.
Austria's current budget for 2012 is nearly 74 billion euros for 2012, with an expected deficit of 9 billion euros.
The government has said it aims to lower the deficit to below 3 per cent of gross domestic product this year, in line with eurozone requirements. Last year's rate was 3.4 per cent.
The austerity measures came after rating agency Standard & Poor's stripped Austria of its top ranking last month and the government responded by vowing to reclaim its AAA status.

[Brian]

Greece is entering the end game,

Almost - I have my fingers crossed.

They need to milk the Europeans first (see Austrian austerities re "EU Crisis" thread) and then hit hard on Greece for 'the last drop' forcing the people to react savagely/and or a 'false flag' to 'quell the violence/murder and restore order' with EU troops. Ke jadat kotek Grcite.

Here's one more stepping-stone to their end.

Greek protesters clash with riot police over austerity

http://news.monstersandcritics.com/business/news/article_1690361.php/LEAD-Greek-protesters-clash-with-riot-police-over-austerity

Feb 10, 2012
Athens - Greek police clashed with rioters Friday as thousands took to the streets of Athens during a nationwide strike, a day after the country's bailout was put in a state of uncertainty by the eurozone.
At least one person was reported injured after hundreds of angry rioters broke away from a peaceful demonstration involving more than 11,000 people, on the first day of a 48-hour strike called by the country's two main labour unions.
Hundreds of black hooded rioters hurled petrol bombs and large slabs of marble at police, who retaliated by firing tear gas into the crowd of demonstrators.

Rest of story in Link.

[EgejskaMakedonia]

As much as we'd all like to see Greece go to the shits, we need to remember that a lot of us still have relatives there. Hopefully they don't get caught up in this mess.

EDIT: Just saw Risto's post a few pages back. You're right about that...and it's an absolute shame. These people have definitely had the short end of the stick for quite some time now.

[The LION will ROAR]

Greece MPs pass austerity plan amid violent protests

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17007761

Greek MPs have approved a controversial package of austerity measures, demanded by the eurozone and IMF in return for a 130bn euro ($170bn; £110bn) bailout.

The vote was carried by 199 in favour to 74 against.

Coalition parties expelled more than 40 deputies for failing to back the bill.

Tens of thousands protested in Athens, where there were widespread clashes and buildings were set on fire. Violent protests were reported in cities across the country.

Protesters outside parliament threw stones and petrol bombs, and police responded with tear gas. Scores of police and protesters were injured.

Prime Minister Lucas Papademos urged calm, insisting that the austerity package would "set the foundations for the reform and recovery of the economy".

"Vandalism, violence and destruction have no place in a democratic country and won't be tolerated," he said in a speech in parliament before the vote.

The bill passed parliament easily as the two largest parties in the coalition - Pasok and New Democracy - account for more than two-thirds of the deputies.

The austerity measures include:

15,000 public-sector job cuts
liberalisation of labour laws
lowering the minimum wage by 20% from 751 euros a month to 600 euros

Eurozone ministers must now ratify the measures at a meeting in Brussels on Wednesday before bailout funds can be released.

The ministers rejected proposals put forward by the Greeks last week, which they said fell 325m euros short of the cuts needed.

The BBC's Mark Lowen in Athens says the public are increasingly angry with the austerity measures and feel that the impact is beyond the value of the bailout.

At least 80,000 people were reported to have joined demonstrations in Athens, with another 20,000 protesting in Thessaloniki.

Running battles with police continued in the capital until late on Sunday, although no new clashes were reported after the vote.

Protesters hurled flares and chunks of marble torn up from the square. Some had tried to break through a cordon of riot police around the parliament.

Several historic buildings, including cafes and cinemas, were set alight.

Ioannis Simantiras, 34, said the protesters were boxed in by police.

"Nobody could get away from the gas," he told the BBC.

"When it engulfed everybody, and everybody was choking the police drew back and opened up a corridor for us away from the parliament - that's when everybody made a run for it."

Violent protests also spread to other Greek towns and cities, including the islands of Corfu and Crete, according to state TV.

Finance Minister Evangelos Venizelos said the question was not "whether some salaries and pensions will be curtailed, but whether we will be able to pay even these reduced wages and pensions".

"When you have to choose between bad and worse, you will pick what is bad to avoid what is worse," he said.

Greece needs the bailout the make its next repayment on its huge sovereign debt.

If it cannot make the payment, it will default and in effect become bankrupt.

Analysts say such a "chaotic default" could endanger Europe's financial stability and possibly even leading to a break-up of the eurozone.

As part of the deal with international lenders, Greece will also be able to write off 100bn euros of privately held debt.

Earlier this week several ministers from the coalition government, including two from Pasok, quit in protest at the measures.

The leader of the far-right Laos party, the junior coalition member, announced his 15 deputies would not back the austerity measures.

George Karatzaferis complained that the measures amounted to Greeks being "humiliated" by Germany.

The eurozone bloc has demanded "strong political assurances" that the packages will be implemented regardless of which party wins a general election due in April.

_________________________________________

I guess we have to wait for the inevitable....

[Brian]

A picture says a thousand words...

or just 7... their screwed - and more to come soon.

Street Battles in Greece as Parliament Votes
Sunday, 12 February 2012

http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/20314/46/

Athens on Fire as Parliament passes new Austerity measures
Monday, 13 February 2012

http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/20316/46/

[DirtyCodingHabitz]

Why don't they just burn the parliament and get it over with? they could do better by executing their politicians western style.

[Valmir]

Soon they will be in a Civil war like Albania in 1997! Wait guys cus it will be a reall SHOW.