Financial Crisis in Greece

[Dimko-piperkata]

What? Greece to buy 400 tanks from the US ?

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While the sickeningly bored European debt crisis continues with Greece possibility running out of money within weeks, and with the European banking system on the brink of collapse, and European politicians having no idea what they are doing, there is a small piece of comedy.
Although probably a dark one.
Swedish newspaper SvD Näringsliv reports that Greece has apparently just ordered 400 tanks from the United States (what?).
The report cited Defencegreece website, which in turn cited the “Hellenic Defence & Technology” magazine that the US government has approve to sell 400 M1A1 Abrams tanks to the Greek army. The order would be worth “tens of millions dollars”. And on the Defencegreece website, it added that “a Price and Availability letter was sent to U.S. authorities regarding 20 AAV7A1 and a low cost upgrade program for them”.
So that’s what we call “fiscal stimulus”.
No, wait, they are stimulating the US economy!

http://www.alsosprachanalyst.com/economy/what-greece-to-buy-400-tanks-from-the-us.html

this action is a strong hit in the €U face

[George S.]

who are they going to use the tanks on terrorising macedonian villagers/?

[Dimko-piperkata]

who are they going to use the tanks on terrorising macedonian villagers/?

not only...also all the rest of the minorities

[julie]

Free money for frolics

[Zarni]

Did Macedonia ever by those 200 APC's, and Greece can afford to spend

[julie]

Zarni, where is the money coming from? Grks are spending Euro dollars on tanks, yet treat minority groups within the confines of their (fake) borders as animals

[Onur]

I think these are for the incoming civil uprising and possibly a military coup after the resign of Papandreu gov.

Some commentators says that US will send used old tanks to Greece, made in 1980 (!!!). So, this proves that Greece is the shithole of US/EU war industry where they can dump their weapons and earn billions.

Some comments are interesting, especially from other EU members who bails out Greece, like Finns, Swiss, Dutch, Germans;

Alexpapas
It's an offer for god shake... they are second hand tanks for the need of replacing older tanks with highly maintenance costs.... 400 for 20 mil$.... and secondly we are in the borders of EU saving your ass from muslim & turkish aggression and immigration and instead helping us you verbally attack us... are U going to defend us from 100 f-35, 3000 turkish tanks, 12 new frigattes ? no, u ll low down your head indiffirently... so, SHTFP...

June
If you are right about the 3000 turkish tanks, 12 new frigates etc.
You think your 400 new tanks will scare them off or even change their mind? You're not even capable of decent bookkeeping, so I think defending Europe from foreign threats might be out of your league as well. Besides, why would they want to take over a bankrupt country?
And yes, a loan is a loan, but I will probably not live to see the money back.

AC
As I said these tanks are about to replace old ones, namely the M48s. Lower maintenance costs is among other things an important issue. Can you suggest another way to respond to the increasing threat from Turkey, besides giving just 8 million dollars in order to face 1000 new Altay Turkish tanks?

Björn Berndin
I think Greece's best bet to defend against Turkey is to stay friends with the people financing their country. Greece is just at tiny country and would never hold against Turkey, to let them believe that they could is just a trick from military export nations (USA, Germany, Sweden and others) to trick the Greeks out of (formerly their own, now) EU:s money.

Björn Berndin
While trying to defend yourself with weapons you have now sold your soul to EU which owns your ass. You can't really do anything now, instead of just living peacefully along with Turkey you have now become our slaves.

Please explain to me what Turkey would have to gain from starting a war with Greece. What you naive people don't see is that the only ones gaining from this is the Politicians in your government who gets bribed by the companies selling you the weapons.

http://www.defencegreece.com/index.p...ams-to-greece/

Btw, i saw this article linked by commentators. Worth reading;

Europe's Own Arms Dealers and Loan Peddlers Took Down Greece
Profit-hungry bankers, weapons makers pushed EU member over brink.

The eyes of the world are on Greece as the beleaguered country lurches toward bankruptcy, threatening to drag the global economy into another recession. There has been much finger wagging from Germany about the need for Greek fiscal restraint and discipline, but what role have the German arms industry and predatory European banks played in creating this crisis?

Over the last decade, Greece has been the largest importer of conventional military hardware in the European Union. Greek military spending as a percentage of GDP is more than any other EU member and tops even nations such as Pakistan, which is engaged in a variety of ongoing conflicts.

Greece now has more than 1,200 battle tanks, 1,700 armoured personnel carriers, 300 fighter jets (including 156 F-16s), eight submarines and more than 40 frigates, gunboats and miscellaneous missile carriers. The bloated Greek military now has an air force similar in size to Germany's -- a front line member of NATO with an economy 10 times larger than Greece and eight times as many people.

And what country is so threatening to Greece that could possibly justify this level spending by such a dangerously indebted country? Apparently their NATO partner, Turkey. Richer still is speculation from the CIA that the greatest peril to the Greek government is not a confrontation with Turkey, but a domestic military coup stemming from draconian cuts to the Greek public service and the predictable civic unrest that has ensued.

It is no small irony that military spending, ostensibly aimed at making the world a safer place, could well trigger a banking contagion that might unhinge the global economy. The majority of Greek military equipment was also manufactured in Germany, France, Britain and the United States, creating an interesting conflict of interest.

While the EU has repeatedly criticized Greece for their lack of fiscal restraint, some of the loudest voices, including Germany and France, have profited massively by loading up the sagging Greek economy with billions of dollars in their military exports. These purchases by Greece fully accounted for 15 per cent of German arms sales between 2006 and 2010.

Troubling questions are also raised by loan guarantees provided by banks operating in the EU. The risk to European banks and arms manufacturers in providing reckless loans to Greece has been very low since these loans are guaranteed by the European Financial Stability Facility. In the short term, bankers might even reap windfall profits from the initial collapse of the Greek economy as interest rates on Greek bonds balloon to the stratosphere. That is, unless the whole house of cards comes crashing down.

Meanwhile, the enthusiastic German arms industry is further demonstrating their fixation on profits over principles by selling 200 Leopard battle tanks to the repressive regime in Saudi Arabia. The Saudis helped crush a popular uprising this year in neighbouring Bahrain as the Arab Spring spread throughout the Middle East.


The narrative most of us have been told of the lazy irresponsible Greeks threatening global stability ignores some obvious facts. European banks, the arms industry and even the IOC have profited handsomely from contributing to this mess.

To ensure that history does not continue to repeat itself, in Greece or elsewhere, we need to transform the role of the banking industry. This sector has morphed from a useful part of the economy providing important financial services into a grotesque global oligarchy that has become a danger to everyone, including itself.

5 Oct 2011

http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2011/10/05...e-Down-Greece/

[George S.]

well it may be for cvil unrest on it;s own people.

[Phoenix]

It's no wonder that the 'greeks' are on the brink of financial oblivion.

Decades of excessive military spending , hosting a modern Olympiad and some massive infrastructure projects in recent years...not a bad effort for a pissant country that has no significant industrial economy and no hi-tech industry.

Everything has been an illusion, a nation built on credit and handouts where every 'greek' believes an Onassis lifestyle is his birthright.
This belief is largely based on the sadly delusional perception that Europeans depend on the bouzouki players to keep the Turkic hoardes beyond the gates of the kingdom and that the entire Western world is indebted to our little plate smashers for the democracy that is enjoyed in the civilized world.

[Risto the Great]

Actually, if they smashed more plates ... they could start their own plate manufacturing factories and employ all their Retsina slurping bludgers.

Thinking more about this, they should really enter a protectionist phase in the creation of new and protection of existing industries. Oh, hang on .... they aren't allowed to do this ... they are in the EU.

And Macedonia has already signed away any rights of protection just to be considered for EU entry ... oh the shame.

[George S.]

They could swing the plate making business to teller mines & combine the two together blow themselves to smithereens.
They must be thinking of big trouble ahead if they are buying 400 tanks to crush all public resistance to stay in power at any cost.What else could it be.

[figure8]

I think all EU nations need to spend a certain percentage of their budget on defense, what they spend it on is up to them I guess.

[George S.]

THat is a good point figure 8 but why would you need to buy 400 tanks when you are facing banruptcy.What are they going to need 400 tanks for .Please explain what are they going to do start a war with someone.If they are in nato why would they need 400 tanks.
It's all just too crazy for words.If greece was going to fight a land battle with whom ??why use tanks when modern aircraft will do & tanks are so slow & vulnerable to landmines,armour piercing shells,are slow for moverability.
If anyone responds that it's doing it because it is scared of little macedonia.Don't make me laugh.Greece has got 10 to 20 times the power of macedonia army.Macedonia cannot even defend herself it's a joke.The macedonian army was onece a couple of tanks & about 13,000 soldiers .At the moment the army is much lower than that in fact probably in the thousands.The greeks have said that they aren't scared of the macedonian army but they are jokingly scared of the macedonian police for there are about 10000 in macedonia & they might get them arrested ha ha.

[Onur]

George, ofc they are getting arms against Turkey.

There is some kind of trilateral axis of profit&robbery consisting with the western war industry, ignorant and fearful ordinary Greek people who gets manipulated by their church&rulers (only 2-3 family members for a century, they inherit from their grandfathers to son and grandchildren like a monarchy) and the corrupt politicians who takes bribes for buying these weapons. Ofc the only thing they do is keeping the Turkish bugaboo alive among ignorant Greek people by using their media and their church. As you know, there is no secularism in Greece. It`s even a state in a church rather than a church in a state.


Greek people are being manipulated to think that these used/old tanks supposedly help them against Turkish military force and ofc they also do that to keep up the arms race with us. But what the ordinary Greek people don't get is; We don't live in a fantasy world unlike them and we don't get foreign support unlike Greece. We have borders with Iran, Iraq, Syria, Armenia. This region is always full of conflicts and Turkey is in the middle of it, all the time. While we have to stay calm with Iran, we also have to be friendly with western world. It`s a very difficult game of check and balance. Thats why Turkey always invests to it`s army but definitely not against Greece.

For example, i saw this recently from the Turkish media. This is a former state minister of Lebanon, a shiite pro-Iran Hezbollah supporter. Check what he says about current Syria, Iran, USA conflict and the role of Turkey in that;
Former Lebanese Min. Wiam Wahhab Threatens Turkish PM Erdogan: 100,000 Missiles Will Fall on Turkey - YouTube

I agree with him about Erdogan but nevertheless, Turkey deals these kind of people, states. Thats what i am talking about.

So, Turkey doesn't even care what Greeks does at all because we have zillions of other bigger problems. I have no idea when Greek people will understand this, probably never unless some kind of revolution happens there to set them free from their corrupt politicians.

[Daskalot]

The Germans ought to step in and confiscate the 400 tanks, it is their money the Greeks are spending anyway.