Nikola Gruevski

[Risto the Great]

Are we now in the game of partaking in a referendum for final national suicide?

Absolutely not. It is demeaning on many, many levels.
Macedonians have already failed one referendum in this regard. A lesson to all.

[indigen]

Absolutely not. It is demeaning on many, many levels.
Macedonians have already failed one referendum in this regard. A lesson to all.

But Macedonia and its VASSAL politicians, state agencies and institutions are definitely preparing the pitch (ground turf) for the REFERENDUM FINALE and we need much more than the MTO to offer realistic challenge to the end game plan for our Macedonian national demise.

Are we now in the game of being brainwashed by VASSAL politicians into partaking in a referendum for final Macedonian national suicide?

Иванов: Нова динамика во преговорите за името по изборите
Вторник, 10 Мај 2011

Претседателот на Република Македонија, Ѓорге Иванов во пресрет на неговата средба во Женева со генералниот секретар на Обединетите нации, Бан Ки-мун, изрази очекување дека по изборите на 5 јуни во преговорите со Грција за името ќе биде внесена нова динамика.



На средба со новинарите, Иванов информира дека име со географска одредница не и одговара на Република Македонија, додека за предлогот Република Македонија (Скопје), што беше прифатлив во Букурешт, вреди да се размисли и да им се објасни на граѓаните дека со тој предлог нема да се влијае на идентитетот.

Шефот на македонската држава најави дека по завршувањето на изборите, се планира средба на македонскиот преговарач Зоран Јолевски и грчкиот преговарач Адемантиос Василакис.

http://www.kurir.mk/makedonija/vesti...to-po-izborite

[Vangelovski]

Maybe some of our posters closer to Macedonian politics/government can offer some clarification.

I don't work for the government (contrary to one-time popular opinion) and at the distance of Australia and my previous disinterest in Macedonian politics I cannot confirm anything to you...

So you're just making more uninformed commentary in order to push your nonsense?

Indigen, I was just lining fyrOM up. I have no intention of supporting a referendum on issues that need no discussion to begin with, let alone matters which have been imposed on a sovereign people by a foreign government.

[fyrOM]

So you're just making more uninformed commentary in order to push your nonsense?

I have never said I am part of the government (in fact flatly, openly stated the opposite at all times) and are privy to their secret discussions nor have some wikileaks type information - do You?? - do Any of the posters??, so why is my logically argued presentation of the links between observable facts anymore 'made-up nonsense' than anyone else's comments? - the facts are the facts and cannot be change, only our collective speculation and logically argued reasoning (ie links between the facts) can change. If you have a better explanation of the observable facts do tell everyone showing your reasoning from step to step.

Indigen, I was just lining fyrOM up. I have no intention of supporting a referendum on issues that need no discussion to begin with, let alone matters which have been imposed on a sovereign people by a foreign government.

You may hate the name dispute and believe it's a non-issue/nonsense issue, but the fact remains it exists and IF a referendum on the name is called, it will also exist despite your hating ect. it, and your refusal to partake in one will not make it cease to exist, but will have the effect of one less NO vote, and hence one less chance of preventing the very thing you despise! - do NOT be fooled, a diaspora person refusing to vote out of protest will NOT be seen as anything more than an insignificant fly.

[Vangelovski]

fyrOM,

You wasted virtual space by talking about how the diaspora could resist a name change through a referendum without even knowing whether the diaspora can even vote in a referendum. That is uninformed commentary. That is a summary of your entire political ramblings.

[Risto the Great]

I have never said I am part of the government

Seriously fyrOM, has anyone thought that? Why?

[fyrOM]

Seriously fyrOM, has anyone thought that? Why?

Some accusations were made in the past. At first I took it in jest as it was funny - the most skippiest Maco I know being a G-man.hahahaha You gotta laugh. Then it was repeated with more frequency and a more serious sounding tone - could these nutsie guy really think this? So I kept on saying, where appropriate, the simple truth - I'm not employed by the government.

Although, seriously, it is a bit of a stupid question because if you think about it logically would anyone working for the government really admit to it and anyone worth their salt would know not to use any information that was not readily available and hence could only come from the government as it would give them away - dahh!

As to why? - who the hell knows - I've already call a lot, if not most, of the people on this site nuts for one reason or other - maybe they just are nuts to think it.

Vangelovski Post115...

You wasted virtual space by talking about how the diaspora could resist a name change through a referendum without even knowing whether the diaspora can even vote in a referendum. That is uninformed commentary.

When data on a topic is unavailable should you freeze with paralysis or piece together any incomplete bits you might have ever heard anywhere and apply the 'reasonable' test and take action accordingly - snajdise.

In every instance that I can think back where orderly government exists the diaspora have voted in referendums relating to a major change to their country - the last was the Suddanies voting to become South Sudan. I would think the Macedonian government is at least more stable than that of the Suddan and hence likely to include the diaspora in any monumental referendum (if one ever happens) such as a name change to the Macedonia identity.

Further, I think that if the government were stupid enough to try and exclude the diaspora, every Macedonian world wide would descend on Macedonia waving their Macedonian papers demanding a right to vote in the country - it would be chaos.

Also, Gruevski's great push into the diaspora at huge expense to urge/aid any Macedonian to register for voting rights HAD to be for a reason - otherwise I'll borrow and reword one of Einstein's quotes, "It would be a huge waste of effort."


The logically argued points above coupled with what I have seen or Gruevski's body language and effort in globe trotting/discussing/dealing/trading (including China) followed by countries declaring their support for Macedonia ALL points to ONLY one logical conclusion - the 'game' I have out-line elsewhere and definitely NOT a traitor - so to finally reply to your assertion I would have to say my statements are NOT entirely "uninformed commentary."

[Phoenix]

Seriously fyrOM, has anyone thought that? Why?

I reckon fyrOM could very easily be in the government...its the age old problem of paying peanuts and attracting monkeys...

[fyrOM]

I reckon fyrOM could very easily be in the government...its the age old problem of paying peanuts and attracting monkeys...

See what I mean RTG, nutsie guys saying nutsie things - and you ask why? - because they're nuts!

[Vangelovski]

fyrOM, when you base your entire theory on the basis that the diaspora would need to have the right to vote in a referendum and you haven't even bothered to find out whether the diaspora does have the right to vote in a referendum, thats UNINFORMED COMMENTARY. Until you actually bother to check the relevant facts, your continued "commentary" will remain uninformed.

As I said earlier, UNINFORMED COMMENTARY summaries your life's story.

What is more of concern however, is the fact that you see a referendum as something necessary. But thats another story and I know that you will remain uninformed about that matter as well, regardless of how many times it is explained to you.

P.S. How's your transition to a fyromian identity working for you? Have you been invited to join any exclusive clubs?

[fyrOM]

What is more of concern however, is the fact that you see a referendum as something necessary. But thats another story and I know that you will remain uninformed about that matter as well, regardless of how many times it is explained to you.

If you re-read any of my post you will see I have always said 'if one (referendum) were to happen' or 'if one got forced on Macedonia' or words to that effect. Most people would understand this to mean 'in the event of' and NOT a 'necessary' or 'prerequisite' event.

fyrOM, when you base your entire theory on the basis that the diaspora would need to have the right to vote in a referendum and you haven't even bothered to find out whether the diaspora does have the right to vote in a referendum, thats UNINFORMED COMMENTARY. Until you actually bother to check the relevant facts, your continued "commentary" will remain uninformed.

It's only one part of the theory towards Gruevski's effort to propel Macedonia - and in fact it is the 'tail end' or 'protection measure' in the theory and Not a key component that needs to happen for the plan/'game' to work.

If you bothered to read my other posts (different threads) outlining the 'game' you would know there are more parts.

P.S. How's your transition to a fyromian identity working for you? Have you been invited to join any exclusive clubs?

Hahahaha - No, but I have been shouted a lot of Ouzo and Cokes. I thought it was because most places (in Australia) don't serve Mastika - do you think it could be due to other reasons? Hahahaha.

[Makedonska_Kafana]

fyROM do you know me from Facebook?

[fyrOM]

Delete pls ..

Sorry, I got fyROM mixed up with our Canadian friend - Car Boris?

Hi Makedonska_Kafana,
By Car (above) I presume you mean Tsar Boris?

I feel flattered that you could confuse me with someone of that elevated title - who is he?

fyROM do you know me from Facebook?

No, I'm not even on Facebook - why?

[Makedonska_Kafana]

Hi Makedonska_Kafana,
By Car (above) I presume you mean Tsar Boris?

I feel flattered that you could confuse me with someone of that elevated title - who is he?

We have this person from parts unknown in Canada "Makedonetz" who once said his name was "Boris". I can count the number of Aegean Macedonians in Canada with that first name on one hand - almost against the law in Greece - sin

This only applies in modern Greece, Boris is a common Macedonian name ie. Borce

[Makedonska_Kafana]

No, I'm not even on Facebook - why?

Well, some think I'm tough on the UMD here .. LMFAO