Nikola Gruevski

[osiris]

prolet if there is a referendum held how do you think the vote will pan out.

[Bratot]

Logically the answer is YES !!!

Rationally - "Maybe"... if I'm too optimistic and believe that this is the only method of avoiding the international pressure and a well guided diplomatic maneuvre to escape the inforced name-change.

But I'm not optimistic when talking about the trust in our politicians, so I would be 80% against this position of Gruevski and would perceive it as a politicaly cowardly way to throw away the responsibility and to provide a opportunity for a typical betrayal.

[Bill77]

I am confused on where people stand here.

Not long ago, people were blowing there tops and saying its not upto our Government or individual to decide on name change. The Government has no right in changing our name. (Remember the thousand page long thread on the constitution) Now Gruevski is throwing it to the people to decide, but he is a dog for doing so.

I don't think he is chickening out of anything. He is doing the right thing. Its not up to him or anyother politician. All i can hope for is Gruevski do the right thing again and tell the Macedonians all the negetives if they were to vote for yes for name change. I am sure the Macedonians living in ROM have no idea of the ramifications if they vote yes.

He might be depending on this referendum turning out to be a NO vote. This would send a strong message to the world, that the Nation has spoken.

[Bratot]

I am confused on where people stand here.

Not long ago, people were blowing there tops and saying its not upto our Government or individual to decide on name change. The Government has no right in changing our name. (Remember the thousand page long thread on the constitution) Now Gruevski is throwing it to the people to decide, but he is a dog for doing so.

I don't think he is chickening out of anything. He is doing the right thing. Its not up to him or anyother politician. All i can hope for is Gruevski do the right thing again and tell the Macedonians all the negetives if they were to vote for yes for name change. I am sure the Macedonians living in ROM have no idea of the ramifications if they vote yes.

He might be depending on this referendum turning out to be a NO vote. This would send a strong message to the world, that the Nation has spoken.

Bill, you are fully aware that this is the best way to set up some fictional free referendum where beside the 'given' opportunity to the people to 'decide' there might be already inforced fabricated result of this referendum, but what they need is legimity of such betrayal presented as the 'will' of the people?

[Jankovska]

We had a referendum, the people came out, declared their name loud and clear. Why another one? Are we gonna do this every 10-15 years with a new politician who wants to shake things up. The call for a referendum is a betrayal.

[Bill77]

[QUOTE = Bratot; 49501] Bill, you are fully aware that this is the best way to set up some fictional free referendum where beside the 'given' opportunity to the people to 'decide' there might be already inforced fabricated result of this referendum , but what they need is legimity of such betrayal presented as the 'will' of the people? [/ QUOTE]

Or, the results can be fabricated as a strong % as no. And then the presure on the Government from outside can ease up. Some might say this is weak in trying to run away from there responsibilities. I would look at it as clever. On the outside, we potray our selves as civilised, democratic, or what ever nice words you want to use. But deep inside, we will never change our name, lets look like we are making an efort unlike the threatening rambling neighbours.

I can only hope this is the way Gruevski and co are thinking. Another thing, Gruevski has been sugesting a referendum a long time ago, if they were forced for a name change. So it is no suprise or news to me he is calling for a referendum. This to me seems a last resort and tells me he has no other avenue apart from walk away. If the alternative was to hapen now, we look the evil side. There would be calls for VMRO heads to roll from oposition in both the ROM and outside.

Regardless of the referendums results, i would like to know, will that be the final say? or is it back in the hands of the Government to over ride the outcome?

[julie]

Macedonian Politicians should grow some balls..
How about they start with putting Large billboards across all our borders with this Message..

Stop this Negotiation..!!!!!!!!!!!!
Changing the NAME will be the biggest mistake in Macedonian History...

ABSOLUTELY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wake up the lot of you, most of you are so befuddled in the head and have no idea that this referendum is going to be disaster masterminding genius of Gruevski, the man that will give up the so called free world of the republic. And the will of the people and all. Give us a break. The REPUBLIC of Macedonia does not constitute the majority of the beliefs of the people in the diaspora. We are giving up everything.
We have sucked it up long enough!!!!
ANYONE that agrees with negotations is a TRAITOR to the Macedonian cause,
ANYONE that agrees with prefixes to name change and that INCLUDES "other " organisations is a TRAITOR to the Macedonian cause.
ANYONE that calls of a REFERENDUM is a TRAITOR to the Macedonian cause

Am mighty pisssed off with some of your stupid theories guys and disappointed in some of you
HOW CAN YOU NOT SEE HE IS A TRAITOR to the Macedonian name

for goodness sake, some of you are intelligent and see it straight off and some of you are spiining the biggest shit on watching too many stupid yankee movies

grow up, support Gruevski in his choice of referendum, and be prepared to bend over and take it like a good little non Macedonian that you are

apologies to any princesses have offended out there. what you see is what you get, I am not a 2 faced hypocrite and would rather die than accept anything other than MACEDONIAN

[Bill77]

wow Julie, i will not be walking for a week now. lol.

I was just puting up a senario. They could be just stupid theories. But it looks like the referendum is inevitable and i just hope my stupid theories are corect.

[Prolet]

Osiris, I would say around 80% would vote NO

He might be depending on this referendum turning out to be a NO vote. This would send a strong message to the world, that the Nation has spoken.

Thats what i was thinking.

Jankovska, Did you even bother to watch the interview? Gruevski gives a clear indication that he is there to serve the people and that he is there to fulfill the promises that he made in the VMRO program.

[Jankovska]

ABSOLUTELY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wake up the lot of you, most of you are so befuddled in the head and have no idea that this referendum is going to be disaster masterminding genius of Gruevski, the man that will give up the so called free world of the republic. And the will of the people and all. Give us a break. The REPUBLIC of Macedonia does not constitute the majority of the beliefs of the people in the diaspora. We are giving up everything.
We have sucked it up long enough!!!!
ANYONE that agrees with negotations is a TRAITOR to the Macedonian cause,
ANYONE that agrees with prefixes to name change and that INCLUDES "other " organisations is a TRAITOR to the Macedonian cause.
ANYONE that calls of a REFERENDUM is a TRAITOR to the Macedonian cause

Am mighty pisssed off with some of your stupid theories guys and disappointed in some of you
HOW CAN YOU NOT SEE HE IS A TRAITOR to the Macedonian name

for goodness sake, some of you are intelligent and see it straight off and some of you are spiining the biggest shit on watching too many stupid yankee movies

grow up, support Gruevski in his choice of referendum, and be prepared to bend over and take it like a good little non Macedonian that you are

apologies to any princesses have offended out there. what you see is what you get, I am not a 2 faced hypocrite and would rather die than accept anything other than MACEDONIAN

Amen!!!!!!!!!

[Jankovska]

[QUOTE=Prolet;49512]Osiris, I would say around 80% would vote NO



Thats what i was thinking.

Jankovska, Did you even bother to watch the interview? Gruevski gives a clear indication that he is there to serve the people and that he is there to fulfill the promises that he made in the VMRO program.[/QUOTE

OMG you still don't get it. I don't care what he has to say, he is a politician, he can say whatever the hell he wants and it will mean fuck all to me. His actions are what I care about not his words. Calling a referendum is an action that I see as a betrayal. I don't need to watch his interviews, I don't believe in anything he says, why do you keep on asking me to do so? The guy is a traitor to the nation and the people. He has sqeezed every poor person in Macedonia to a point where they will accept ANYTHING as long as someone gives them jobs or the promised EU. I don't beleieve in him Prolet he is a fake. I may be not a great person to get along with, rude, horrible, bitch etc but I am a good judge of people and almost always I am right about it. I remember the time when I was saying Ljube is a traitor and being shot down on the forums quicker than you can say he is a brat. I was right. I am right about Grujo too.

[The LION will ROAR]

People...I keep bringing this up and I'll bring this up again..

MACEDONIAN WORLD PROTEST

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1232

I think by now we can communicate with the right groups around the world and organise a world protest.
Macedonians from every part of the world to protest all on the same day..we will be herd if this goes ahead...
Stop talking and start taking action..we need to be loud and make a seen.
I can't believe we are so fcuken soft...
Sorry for the langauge..but it's pissing me OFFFFFF

[julie]

People...I keep bringing this up and I'll bring this up again..

MACEDONIAN WORLD PROTEST

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1232

I think by now we can communicate with the right groups around the world and organise a world protest.
Macedonians from every part of the world to protest all on the same day..we will be herd if this goes ahead...
Stop talking and start taking action..we need to be loud and make a seen.
I can't believe we are so fcuken soft...
Sorry for the langauge..but it's pissing me OFFFFFF

I am with you brat.
If I am not is hospital, will be first in line!!!!!

[Bill77]

People...I keep bringing this up and I'll bring this up again..

MACEDONIAN WORLD PROTEST

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1232

I think by now we can communicate with the right groups around the world and organise a world protest.
Macedonians from every part of the world to protest all on the same day..we will be herd if this goes ahead...
Stop talking and start taking action..we need to be loud and make a seen.
I can't believe we are so fcuken soft...
Sorry for the langauge..but it's pissing me OFFFFFF

I'm all for this idea Mate. Its long overdue.

[fyrOM]

Bravo ladies you are strong. Ama tvrda gla ne turka dzit I navedena gla sabja ne seci. Remember our recent 20 year history and tell us when were we that strong. I hope one day we are until then strpenije spasenieje. Our poletitions have lead us from a bloodless seperation from Yugoslavia to relative stability. At any time we were in a precarious position. Even now they are playing a game lets all help them by getting ready if it comes to a referendum.