Nikola Gruevski

[Prolet]

Its all Macedonian to me LOL

Rogi, You do have that Bitolski Accent you know.

Warrior, Kazvaj sto prajme sega so Shiptarite?

[Warrior]

Its all Macedonian to me LOL

Rogi, You do have that Bitolski Accent you know.

Warrior, Kazvaj sto prajme sega so Shiptarite?

Kazvaj and prajme are giveaway that you are not from Skopje...lol...Very Ohridski...

Simple enforce the law in the country and everyone that oversteps the mark pays the penalty. At the moment the Shipci have their own laws and they live by them. I dont believe a military assault is the answer as many groups will get involved such as the US and Kosovars. The Serbs are perfect example that force will not guarantee success. The Israel approach of continuosly assasinating Hamas leaders, might be a good approach and maybe Ahmeti can be first on the list!!! They are cancer and unless are stopped in the next few years, some parts of Macedonia will be forever lost. At the moment there are villages and areas that have no idea about Macedonia and live by their tribal laws.The Shipci will break very quickly if few of their leaders are killed, unlike the Arabs. The rest of the Shipci wil fall in line very quickly with the law and expectations.

[Prolet]

Spolaj Ti Warrior

I speak alot of dialects from Macedonia, the Ohridski dialect is probably the easiest to learn you just have to add the t at the end for pretty much everything. I know the east Macedonian dialects aswell.

Warrior, Replace Kazvaj with Kazuvaj and Prajme with Pravime.

Once USA and EU stops supporting them they wont get too far thats for sure, if they continue with their hard line approaches then im sure we can take some advise from the Israelis on how to deal with terrorists. Maybe even bulldoze homes and strip away citizenships would be a good start.

[Bill77]

Balkan Forum Part 2

Many so far have unfarely judged Gruevski in the thread "The Latest Greek Parable" after watching a edited clip. This second part is a must see and deserves its own thread. Just goes to show how quick we are to judge with out hearing the full story. It starts from about 2 min mark, and near the end you will hear from Pavle


YouTube - Balkans Forum in Brussels 8.12.2009 2/3

[Bill77]

we are going back wards lol but here is Part 1

YouTube - Balkans Forum in Brussels 8.12.2009 1/3

[Risto the Great]

Majkata Bill ... the clip order was torture.
Gruevski did a better job in these clips. But seriously, did he need to say the Greeks are Macedonians as well? I would have said perhaps the Greeks suffer from an identity crisis, because they can only be Greeks OR Macedonians. That would have got the Greek "moderator" (even more) excited.

I can't stand the "right of determination cannot violate the rights of others" bullshit arguments.

[Soldier of Macedon]

That's political bullshit, and I don't agree with it either. No Macedonian would ever say that anybody else is a Macedonian, but a Macedonian.

This is one of the few things that I don't appreciate from Gruevski, the fact that, at least on the political level, he is willing to concede even that much to these Greeks. There is no need, and there certainly ain't no confusion. If the racist governments of Greece hadn't pumped their population with propaganda, lies and garbage about the Macedonians, this artificial 'confusion' (on their part) would not exist.

I would chance to say that, when Gruevski makes such a concession, it is akin to him saying that the ethnic Albanians in the Macedonian republic are also 'Macedonian' - Geographically Macedonian - And that is about as 'Macedonian' as these non-Macedonians will ever be.

[Bill77]

Majkata Bill ... the clip order was torture.
Gruevski did a better job in these clips. But seriously, did he need to say the Greeks are Macedonians as well? I would have said perhaps the Greeks suffer from an identity crisis, because they can only be Greeks OR Macedonians. That would have got the Greek "moderator" (even more) excited.

I can't stand the "right of determination cannot violate the rights of others" bullshit arguments.

Sory mate to make you go through it all. But there was no justice in the one on the other thread that is in fact Part 3. I felt the whole Gruevski situation was taken out of context. The video edit was poor and i am not sure if it was deliberate, But more footage neaded to be seen if we would have some balance on this topic. The Greek slime reporter made a pathetic statement and the next shot went straight into another question. I wander if Gruevski did reply to that slime but was cut out.

Many of us on MTO criticised or sugested Gruevski blew it and should have used his opertunity to voice our side. I think he did say what was needed and considering the limited time he had and he did a good job imho. He mentioned some things that made me punch the air in joy, in particulor after a Couple of Greeks moaned and groaned.

[Bill77]

YouTube - Balkans Forum in Brussels 8.12.2009 2/3

Some of Gruevski's Quotes: 1:50 It was mentioned that Greece has an agenda to integrate western Balkan countrys, in EU towards 2014. But i can not understand how this would be Possible when at the same time Greece keeps on Blocking the Republic Of Macedonia. So its ither you (Greece) want to integrate the Western Balkan Countries or you dont.


My response: Touch down. He exposed Greeces Bull shit.






Gruevski Quote: 2:16 If a country (like Macedonia) that has mostly advanced after Croatia, in the intergration process, is blocked, This integration plan (Garbage) will not be sucsesful.

My response: The words in Brackets is me add libing to my understanding, in order to make sence at what he is trying to say with his Broken English. Again Gruevski tries to mock the whole situation.








Gruevski Quote: 2:30 (in response to the Greek argument That everyone has a right of determination but there is a limit)
I can't understand what can be a limit to someone who wants, to continue to be. The people who lived in our country for centurys are "Macedonians". This teratory has been Macedonian for Centuries. so what are the limits here, i don't understand.

My response: With slight hesitation i say Yes. But centuries could mean any time limit. I would have prefered Gruevski say " starting from many centuries before christ" Possibly he did not want to start a riot. But ither way, we have been on this land longer than the Greek ocupiers. So i also ask, why do we have limits.







Gruevski Quote: 3:00 i would also like to explain, that the word Macedonia comes from the period of Alexander the Greats Empire. (this is where the Greeks moan and are sick in the gut) This empire does not exist anymore. And on the same territory, there are several countries. In our country people have rights to believe they are Macedonians and feel they are Macedonians. And we recognise that there are Macedonians in Greece Macedonians in Republic of Macedonia and Macedonians in other countries.

My Response: let me stop it here for a second. I take this as not That Gruevski is admiting Greeks are also Macedonian (i might have made it obvious that i don't mind Gruo so i could be blinded with my bias views) But he is sugesting that there are True Macedonians all around the divided Land. And its only us that has freedom to call our selves Macedonians. This is a clever Trap if it was his intention, for Greeks to jump up and deny there are Macedonians, but then rethink about what they have been lieing to the world latley. Now the dilema is they would have to Painfuly agree with Gruevski. They would have to agree and claim he is corect and there are Macedonians, but they are Greeks. A trick question perhaps. How would a Greek reply to this? I think, evan though Greeks say Macedonians exist but are Greeks, this act hurts them. They strugle to spit out the word Macedonia. They would love it to disapear again. Where we can say it with pride.







Gruevski Quote: 3:32 The problem is that Greece is monopolysing the History. Greece believe that Macedonians can only exist in Greece and no where else. Thats not corect and this is injustice what they are doing to us. We will not be broken by this injustice. we are a small country but we have a strong will.A strong will to continue with our reforms and solve the problems. This atitude by Greece is not European. To block someboby, to Blackmail because the name of his country, the name of his nation, the name of his language. It is a bad signal for the region.

My response: i salute you Gruevski on most of this, but our strong will is to keep the name and identity and dont give a shit about reforms that are to the EU entry standard that is only a standard set for us but ignored by the creaters of this standard.







Gruevski Quote:4:42 we want this problem to be solved, we will continue on this problem to be solved. bla bla bla bla

My response: now you are letting me down Gruevski.

[makedonin]

They are (Gruevski, Milososki) playing some stupid politics and act like we are very understandable about the Greeks being upset, which only gives more fuel to the Greek fire.

Instead of saying the things the way they are from our perspective and use streight facts, they are compromizing on each step, which makes us look like idots not knowing what they are and ready to be shaped up.

I am disapinted by Gruevski not being prepared for a debate like that.

[makedonin]

I just watched the following video. I would rather wanted to see Gruevski giving short bundled statements as Pavle did.

YouTube - Voskopulos

Pavles statement is short, bundled and hits the nail on the head. Grece and Bulgaria are not respecting the EU Values when concerning Macedonian Minority in their respectives borders.

And the dick head guy with the creepy voice wanted to cut him off, not to say what he was about to say.

[Anarchist]

Its "Pavlos " by the way thats what his name is.

You got to understand with politics that , its very touch and go you can't just speak your mind without the whole situation blowing up in your face. Makes me sad knowing that religon and politics are mixing when they shouldn't be. Everyone has there own opinion and right in this world , but i find it funny how its left up to other people who have nothing to do with the problem to get there hands dirty.

You got to understand that Greece believes that Macedonia was a state of Greece , and Macedonians of the Republic Of Macedonia ( No offence intended just merly trying to seperate the names ) believe that Macedonia is a country.

This is what it all comes down to , the sooner both countries get around this problem and find a solution the better life will be. But i guess the majority of people living in both countries don't even bother or take the time to think about this issue , i put blame to the politicians of todays time and former politicians for spinning crap all around. This is why i hate politics because it drives people apart most of the time.

[Bill77]

Its "Pavlos " by the way thats what his name is.
You got to understand with politics that , its very touch and go you can't just speak your mind without the whole situation blowing up in your face. Makes me sad knowing that religon and politics are mixing when they shouldn't be. Everyone has there own opinion and right in this world , but i find it funny how its left up to other people who have nothing to do with the problem to get there hands dirty.
You got to understand that Greece believes that Macedonia was a state of Greece , and Macedonians of the Republic Of Macedonia ( No offence intended just merly trying to seperate the names ) believe that Macedonia is a country.

This is what it all comes down to , the sooner both countries get around this problem and find a solution the better life will be. But i guess the majority of people living in both countries don't even bother or take the time to think about this issue , i put blame to the politicians of todays time and former politicians for spinning crap all around. This is why i hate politics because it drives people apart most of the time.

A)He is Macedonian so its Pavle.

B) If you are refering to Pavle should have nothing to do with it, you are wrong. He knows first hand what Macedonians living in Greece have to put up with. He is a leader of the Macedonian minority in Greece. Anything related to Macedonia is and should be his buisiness.

C) No sory, cant understand how Macedonia was a state of Greece. What Greece understands is not usualy reality. (no ofence)

D)There is only one country with a problem. You are aware who it is. The only problem Macedonians have, is realising that EU entry is not the be all and end all. The sooner they realise this and go on another path, there problem with this negotiation process will stop.

[makedonin]

You got to understand that Greece believes that Macedonia was a state of Greece , and Macedonians of the Republic Of Macedonia ( No offence intended just merly trying to seperate the names ) believe that Macedonia is a country.

Many people believe that the Marsians spy on the earth!? Does that has any political or realistic weight?

When was Macedonia state of Greece!? Which Greece?

In ancient times, there was no Greece in national state sense. In Medevial Times there was no Greece in the same sense. In Ottoman Time there was no Greece either!?

Which Greece does you people believe that Macedonia was part of!?

Part of Macedonia's territory became part of the Modern Greek State after 1913, when the wider part of the Macedonian region was partitioned in three parts!

But the region Macedonia in Greece is no unified administration unit. The region Macedonia in Greece is divided into three peripheries comprising thirteen prefectures . See more here.

So how come you speak of Macedonia as state of Greece!? To be a State, it has to have at least partial political authonomy and to be considered as one unit, which the region Macedonia incorporated in Greece lacks the later!

On the other hand, we don't believe that Macedonia as a region is a country, but the State, the Republic of Macedonia is a existing fully authonomus political entity! Only fools like you can deny that!

So no new name is needed, cause there is a clear distinction between the regional political entity's:

• The Republic of Macedonia = fully authonomus independent political state.
• West, Central Macedonia and Macedonia & Thrace = administration units (peripheries) inside of the Republic of Greece! No state at all!

You have to be dumb not to see the difference!

[Anarchist]

A)He is Macedonian so its Pavle.

B) If you are refering to Pavle should have nothing to do with it, you are wrong. He knows first hand what Macedonians living in Greece have to put up with. He is a leader of the Macedonian minority in Greece. Anything related to Macedonia is and should be his buisiness.

C) No sory, cant understand how Macedonia was a state of Greece. What Greece understands is not usualy reality. (no ofence)

D)There is only one country with a problem. You are aware who it is. The only problem Macedonians have, is realising that EU entry is not the be all and end all. The sooner they realise this and go on another path, there problem with this negotiation process will stop.

A & B ) Fair enough , i only knew of this guy promoting a Greek - Macedonian dictionary in Greece.

C ) This is the whole issue of both countries fighting for bragging rights , my whole knowledge is that the land that Greece & Macedonia are sitting on is Macedonia , But people are fighting over who was there first with langauge etc.

D ) Understandable , obviously when matters are solved the negotiations will stop its just how things work in this world .