Nikola Gruevski

[Volk]

That is the most idiotic reasoning I have come across, but quite popular with people of your persuasion. But what about the vast majority of people who are not employed by the state?

Its not reasoning its the way people live, but you wouldn't know anything about that, would you idiot?

[Vangelovski]

Its not reasoning its the way people live, but you wouldn't know anything about that, would you idiot?

What people? People like you?

[EgejskaMakedonia]

What people? People like you?

I'm only speculating here, but there would surely be people in Macedonia who think 'If the government and anyone else isn't trying to do anything, why should I risk my job and lifestyle to protect the name, identity, etc.'

It's the mentality of 'passing the buck' or expecting others to act on ones' inactions. Perhaps the erosion of the Macedonian identity isn't as important to some citizens in Macedonia who place the well-being and security of their family as a number 1 priority. They may still care, but if their own government is the source of the demise of Macedonian sovereignty, they may perceive the whole situation as 'what's the point?'

Doesn't make it right, very far from it. However, these people do exist, and sometimes the priorities of one individual cannot be matched to the next. With such a high unemployment rate, I'd assume that most citizens would be overly keen to hold onto their jobs, sometimes at the expense of their own identity and self-respect.

Like I said, it's very sad to see...but providing for your family is also a very important commitment in this world. Sometimes these priorities clash.

[Pelister]

Who should be leading the country?

We do not need a charismatic leader, Volk. We need a party with a coherent, meaningful and defensive political, social, economic and very importantly national platform. We need sound policies. I mean listen to Gruevski and the VMRO party talk about a 'civic society'. They are defining 'Macedonian' not from an ethnic point of view, but from a civic point of view. If this is true, then Gruevski is proposing a fundamental shift in the political identity of the Macedonian national identity. If this rhetoric provides us with a clue about his intentions, then he intends to change the political identity of the Macedonian Republic as the national home of the ethnic Macedonian, to the a 'Switzerland of the Balkans' where Macedonian is not longer an ethnic identity, but a civic one. What could be more disastrous for us? Nothing, I tell you. This is it. Think about what this lunatic is proposing - every single Albanian (22 per cent of the population), and every single Turk (4 per cent of the population) identify ethnically, linguistically and culturally with their mother-nations - Albania and Turkey. AND YET, Gruevski is prepared to call them 'Macedonians' in a civic sense? These people don't identify as Macedonians, they never have and they never will - yet, Gruevski is prepared to change the political identity of the Macedonian State as the ONE AND ONLY homeland of the ethnic Macedonian people? He is proposing a fundamental shift in the Macedonian nationality, I might add here that this exactly the result that the Greek government wants - it is being pushed by them, and by the European Union. Think about what these lunatics are proposing. It is not only him, it is the other parties as well. These individuals are either incredibly clever and therefore very dangerous, or amazingly and stupidly nieve and reckless.
.

[Volk]

We do not need a charismatic leader, Volk. We need a party with a coherent, meaningful and defensive political, social, economic and very importantly national platform. We need sound policies. I mean listen to Gruevski and the VMRO party talk about a 'civic society'. They are defining 'Macedonian' not from an ethnic point of view, but from a civic point of view. If this is true, then Gruevski is proposing a fundamental shift in the political identity of the Macedonian national identity. If this rhetoric provides us with a clue about his intentions, then he intends to change the political identity of the Macedonian Republic as the national home of the ethnic Macedonian, to the a 'Switzerland of the Balkans' where Macedonian is not longer an ethnic identity, but a civic one. What could be more disastrous for us? Nothing, I tell you. This is it. Think about what this lunatic is proposing - every single Albanian (22 per cent of the population), and every single Turk (4 per cent of the population) identify ethnically, linguistically and culturally with their mother-nations - Albania and Turkey. AND YET, Gruevski is prepared to call them 'Macedonians' in a civic sense? These people don't identify as Macedonians, they never have and they never will - yet, Gruevski is prepared to change the political identity of the Macedonian State as the ONE AND ONLY homeland of the ethnic Macedonian people? He is proposing a fundamental shift in the Macedonian nationality, I might add here that this exactly the result that the Greek government wants - it is being pushed by them, and by the European Union. Think about what these lunatics are proposing. It is not only him, it is the other parties as well. These individuals are either incredibly clever and therefore very dangerous, or amazingly and stupidly nieve and reckless.
.

Pelister, I dont know if your aware but the 2001 Capitulation turned Macedonia, a land of the the citizens of the country and no longer the homeland of Macedonians... Everything you accuse Gruevski doing was done in 2001 and the ramifications and being felt now...

[Soldier of Macedon]

Volk, in all the time that Gruevski has been in power, he has done nothing to restore Macedonia as the nation-state of the Macedonian people. In fact, he has actively contributed to the implementation of the Framework Agreement and the creation of a 'dual-language' country, he has supported (and secured) amnesty for the 2001 terrorists, he has manipulation of our historical symbols, etc. He is just as guilty as the morons who signed away our sovereignty in the first place.

[makedonche]

Volk, in all the time that Gruevski has been in power, he has done nothing to restore Macedonia as the nation-state of the Macedonian people. In fact, he has actively contributed to the implementation of the Framework Agreement and the creation of a 'dual-language' country, he has supported (and secured) amnesty for the 2001 terrorists, he has manipulation of our historical symbols, etc. He is just as guilty as the morons who signed away our sovereignty in the first place.

.........and anyone who can't see this is either looking the other way, in denial or blind or possibly all three!
It is unacceptable to say anything other than the above, unless you are willingly going along with what he is doing.....or worse still, what he's not doing........you are either part of the problem or part of the solution, there is no fence sitting available on this issue!

[George S.]

well said makedonche.It's about time people stop fooling themselves that gruevski is doing really well when the opposite is true.He has caved in to many demands.There are those that even the public aren't aware or who have left it to the politicians to sort out.Blind freddy could tell them that you don't negotiate on your name.If the greeks are drawing lines in the sand do the same & do not deviate from that.With so many other things it was complete capitulation especially on the albanians etc.We can see what he is doing it's not good either way he has undermined macedonian soveregnity without question that's what he's done.He has caused irreparable damage to macedonia.
When other countries are thinking of not joining the eu he wants to join the eu what's in it for macedonia a name change then what?
Gruevski is really more of the same,he is doing the same thing as the other politicians but not as more open.He says he won't change the name then he changes the name to appease the greejks who turn him down flat.

[United MKD]

Maybe we should start firstly with the diehard VMRO supporters here in our own Australia who celebrate a VMRO victory like Macedonia is being united again..

[George S.]

umkd you wonder what they are celebrating as it's not a real victory.THey are really lulled by the false sense of security.They go for the usual party rhetoric & beleive the crap they are fed.They don't realise that they are selling out on macedonia.The so called victory is a loss on many fronts which has undermined macedonian sovereignity.IF we continue the way we are going there won't be any macedonia to speak off as it is slowly disintegrating around itself.

[Risto the Great]

We do not need a charismatic leader, Volk. We need a party with a coherent, meaningful and defensive political, social, economic and very importantly national platform. We need sound policies. I mean listen to Gruevski and the VMRO party talk about a 'civic society'. They are defining 'Macedonian' not from an ethnic point of view, but from a civic point of view. If this is true, then Gruevski is proposing a fundamental shift in the political identity of the Macedonian national identity. If this rhetoric provides us with a clue about his intentions, then he intends to change the political identity of the Macedonian Republic as the national home of the ethnic Macedonian, to the a 'Switzerland of the Balkans' where Macedonian is not longer an ethnic identity, but a civic one. What could be more disastrous for us? Nothing, I tell you. This is it. Think about what this lunatic is proposing - every single Albanian (22 per cent of the population), and every single Turk (4 per cent of the population) identify ethnically, linguistically and culturally with their mother-nations - Albania and Turkey. AND YET, Gruevski is prepared to call them 'Macedonians' in a civic sense? These people don't identify as Macedonians, they never have and they never will - yet, Gruevski is prepared to change the political identity of the Macedonian State as the ONE AND ONLY homeland of the ethnic Macedonian people? He is proposing a fundamental shift in the Macedonian nationality, I might add here that this exactly the result that the Greek government wants - it is being pushed by them, and by the European Union. Think about what these lunatics are proposing. It is not only him, it is the other parties as well. These individuals are either incredibly clever and therefore very dangerous, or amazingly and stupidly nieve and reckless.
.

Pelister,
I am Australian AND Macedonian. I can see parallels with Gruevski trying to have ethnic Albanians and Turks in embracing a Macedonian national identity. The point is that Gruevski is failing particularly with ethnic Albanians because they will never associate themselves with the Macedonian nation that they despise. Pretending they can be Macedonians is naive. But with the right agenda would be worth a shot in my opinion.

The agenda would be to create a new kind of Albanian or Turkish identity. One that can be distinguished from that across the border. Sound familiar? The Greeks have been doing this for about a century and it has worked for them. It won't work for Macedonians because they have an inferiority complex that stems from a deep rooted slave mentality. Horrible to admit but I think it is true. And only one of us "niggers" is allowed to say it because we refuse to hear it from anyone else.

[Brian]

Is this 'good cop Vs bad cop'? Can anyone in RoM tell us what the 'vibe on the street' is?

2nd Attempt: Gruevski Initiates Meeting with Samaras

http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/19876/1/

Friday, 16 December 2011
Premier Nikola Gruevski sent Friday a letter to New Democracy leader Antonis Samaras to once again initiate a joint meeting.

"Macedonia's Euro-Atlantic integration is of great importance for the Government and its citizens. Additionally, consistent observance of the 1995 Interim Agreement is also of great importance together with efforts made in finding a mutually acceptable solution to name differences. If a country from the region makes a breakthrough in its Euro-Atlantic integration, it will be of paramount significance for the stability, prosperity and progress of the region," reads the letter.

PM Gruevski elaborated that he was urged to send a letter to Samaras following speculation in several Greek media claiming that allegedly there was neither invitation nor an attempt for a meeting with the party leader in the course of the 20th EPP congress in Marseilles.

"Therefore, I take this opportunity to express my feeling that perhaps it is a mistake or blunder by the journalist who reported this false information in Greek media and to reiterate once again my interest for organising a joint meeting. On that account, I would like with this letter to invite you to a meeting, which is to be organised as soon as possible at a time and place most suitable for you in a bid to enhance the dialogue between the two countries. I believe it is the right way to make efforts in resuming dialogue involving substantial issues of mutual interest and to contribute to our aspirations for joint prosperity in building mutual trust and understanding," said Gruevski voicing his hopes for better future and sincere cooperation.

At the end of the letter, Gruevski once again stressed that it was being left to Samaras to set a date and location for a meeting.

No Greek or Macedonian PM has made an official visit to the respective countries.

President Ivanov: Future Discriminating EU Reports Will be Sent Back

http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/19861/1/

Thursday, 15 December 2011
Nobody in this world has the right to take away someone elses treasured values. Values that must be respected.

Because of this, in the future I will not accept EU report that tramples on the dignity of our people, our history, language and identity - stated Ivanov during his annual address to Parliament.

Ivanov sent a message to all citizens to enjoy life, be at peace with themselves and others adding there is no one on this planet that will take away Macedonia's constitutional name, our identity or language.

-Macedonia remains committed to EU and NATO, however in both organizations we will be what we are: Macedonia and Macedonians. There is no other option - stated president Gjorgje Ivanov in his second annual address to Parliament.

[Daniel the Great]

Gruevski to meet Greek counterpart Papademos

Macedonian Government welcomes the consent of Greek Prime Minister Lucas Papademos for a tete-a-tete meeting with Macedonian counterpart Nikola Gruevski. However, it offers no comments until after the meeting, which comes as a result of a series of invitations from Skopje, sources at the Government say.

We have no comments until seeing whether the encounter will produce constructive talks, the sources say.

After almost three months Papademos responded yesterday to the proposal of Gruevski for a tete-a-tete meeting. He gave his approval for the meeting to take place on sidelines of the next European Council's session, scheduled for early March.

Those familiar with the name dispute tell MIA that Athens arranges the meeting ahead of the fortcoming elections and in a period when the entire international community is aware that any progress is impossible in the present circumstances and with the incumbent technical government in order to make an impression of its alleged constructiveness.

Ten days before a possible Gruevski- Papademos meeting UN mediator in Macedonian-Greek name negotiations Matthew Nimetz is expected to visit Skopje and Athens.

http://www.emg.rs/en/news/region/174873.html

It will be very interesting to see what comes out of this meeting.

[Brian]

http://www.emg.rs/en/news/region/174873.html

Those familiar with the name dispute tell MIA that Athens arranges the meeting ahead of the fortcoming elections and in a period when the entire international community is aware that any progress is impossible in the present circumstances and with the incumbent technical government in order to make an impression of its alleged constructiveness.

It will be very interesting to see what comes out of this meeting.

Nothing will happen other than they will enjoy good food and drinks together, that's why they left it to right before the elections.

I wouldn't worry about it - 'grape-vine news' is they'll be gone in 6 months anyway. Can't quote you anything because the news is from 'far over the fence in alternate media land' but I'm buying a bottle of champers anyway.

[Zarni]

How has Matthew Nimetz not tired of this all those paid tours gotta get boring