South Australian Premier Mike Rann, an enemy to Macedonians

[Prolet]

Bill, Ne rece nisto loso za AMHRC chojekot samo postavi prashanje i ti go prifati toa kako navreda. Jas vela oti treba dialog da ima a ne da se raspravame, ete gi vide grcine tie si pritiskat,lobirat im kazhvat na cel svet oti sme izmislena nacija koja go kradi nivnoto ime. Non stop pishuvat pisma niz cel svet i ne klevetat, jas nikogash ne ti rekov oti UMD e perfektna organizacija ali ni treba nekoj da lobira za Makedonskoto ime i Makedonskata Nacija.

Grotius, You are stating exactly the opposite to what im stating, not only that you are using personal insults. Its got nothing to do with me, i dont decide what happens in our community so dont turn this on me.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Beshe prifateno kako navreda oti tocno toa e.

SOM, Ti ako ne se soglasuvas so UMD ne mora da znaci oti treba da gi mrazish,kazhi mi kako e toa negova greshka??

Razibrash ili ne bre deka storia golemi greshki? Tie greshki ni eden od UMD ne saka da gi priznava, zatoa gi mrazam, a ne oti ne se soglasvam so nim. Kizni kai ti bega i tebe pameto nekoash.

[Risto the Great]

Why are you turning this into a UMD issue? All the organizations in Australia missed this and it is THEIR JOB to be on the lookout for these sorts of issues, that is why they formed their organizations. AMHRC, as many here have claimed, have a long history of being active in Australia and to think that they didn't even know about this or don't have people looking for these sorts of things is disconcerting. UMD's Australian office didn't pick up on it either which is also disconcerting. Does that make the shortcomings of other Australian organizations any better?

My apologies for the late entry into the debate. I have been away.

What is disconcerting is the dilution of "go-to points" in matters such as this. The point has been made that in Australia the AMHRC has done the most in relation to this kind of work and has done so for close to 30 years. It will need money to defend this case.

I would not expect the AMHRC to know everything. I would expect them to be informed as soon as possible by anyone that seeks action. Buktop, if the UMD was informed of this matter, do you genuinely feel they would instantly pass on the news to the AMHRC. Or do you think they will put a spin on it before it gets out? Be honest. Is this a case of self-promotion ahead of the Macedonian Cause? These are normal human reactions so I expect them, however as logical human beings, we should be able to measure where we can get the most value out of a decision for action.

I would be quite amazed if anybody came to the conclusion that there was any place other than AMHRC in Australia better suited to defend attacks such as this. As a consequence the debate has been extremely healthy and has made the choice in matters such as this very easy.

[Bratot]

Rann, Ethnic Money and Videotape

I'm aware there are many topics about Rann but this text deserve a new clean read:


As you may have heard Mike Rann was videotaped doing something naughty. I know what you are thinking – here comes the sex-tape scandal we didn’t want to see. No it’s not that – but it is almost as sleazy.



It turns out there is a tape of Mike Rann at the Greek Dimitria festival stating that Macedonia was stealing Greek history and culture and that the Macedonian president was "stirring up trouble". One wonders, how do you steal culture and history; both being mental constructs. Or how are we stirring up trouble in stating who we are? What has Macedonia done to Greece that has caused a loss?
Macedonia according to all human rights conventions is totally free to self-determine – but it seems Mike Rann has a problem with this.

Maybe in South Australia they have a different reading of the UN Universal Declaration on Civil and Political Rights – particularly Article 1 that guarantees the right to self-determination.
The only people who have stated that they have a problem with Macedonians self-determining as Macedonians are the Greek government. So why does Mike Rann have a problem?

Of course we all know Mike Rann. As opinion polls tell us, he is the outgoing premier of South Australia. You’ll also know him as the guy who allegedly bonked a barmaid (who was not his wife) on a public golf course and is now trying to avoid the issue in the run up to an election.

This is the guy who demanded in 1997 that opposing politician Premier Olsen undertake a lie detector test. Now when his own honesty comes under question in relation to the golf course barmaid affair – he decides that lie detectors aren’t that great after all. I thought lie detectors have gotten more reliable over time – not worse.

As most South Australian voters know and have demonstrated in opinion polls the guy is as trustworthy as a used car salesman with a crystal meth habit. So why do we care what he says about Macedonia? Well he is (for at least another month) the premier and some people seem to feel that he should represent his community – all of them – including us Macedonians.

Why does a premier make comments against members of his electorate who have done nothing wrong other than be born Macedonian?

Or why on earth does a premier of South Australia need to make comments on an issue that NATO and the EU have stated is a bilateral issue between Macedonia and Greece? I don’t know how a state so relaxed as South Australia could imagine itself as a global player seeking peace in the Balkans. I guess once the UN and G-8 are out of ideas they must come to South Australia for some real advice. Why does Rann feel the need to interject? Where were Rann´s comments on Russia and Georgia?
Where was Rann´s insightful commentary in relation to the tension between Columbia and Venezuela? There was none, because Rann is not interested in international affairs; he is only interested in local affairs – no pun intended.

Forget the international politics. Look at where he was. He was at a Greek festival- the Dimitria festival. While it may seem just like an innocent cultural event – look at the organizers - The Pan Macedonian Association of South Australia – part of the Pan Macedonian Federation – who are connected with the Australian Macedonian Advisory Council. Of course the funny thing about these organizations is that they are not Macedonian at all; they are all Greek and if any of them went to Centrelink and asked for a Macedonian booklet they wouldn’t be able to read it. These groups are actually anti-Macedonian. Our existence is, in their eyes, an abomination and a falsehood.

Look at the statements they make online – the ethnic hatred that they posted on their forums. They are more concerned with who we are than who they are. The point is, Rann attended a party set up by an organization that has as its purpose the denial of Macedonian ethnicity. He not only attended the party, he made statements against the Macedonian ethnicity – effectively stating that the only Macedonians are Greek and that non-Greeks are not Macedonian.


Why would he do such a thing? Well this is where the sleaze starts. Whenever Mike Rann is in trouble – who is the first to rush to his aid? Nick Bolkus – a Greek South-Australian who left federal parliament amid allegations of money laundering and deals with criminal figures. Since leaving parliament he has become a lobbyist who collects funds for the Labor Party – all this is public knowledge. Now let’s take a guess which particular ethnic community Nick Bolkus obtains money from?

Nick is a fundraiser, and he is the most effective fundraiser in relation to the Greek community. But fundraising works both ways; If you want someone to get a message in government – you can go through Nick who is a friend of the Premier. In return, Mike Rann tells Greek nationalist organizations like AMAC and friends what they want to hear.

1. They want to hear ethnic denial.
2. They want to hear lack of respect for others human rights.
3. They want to hear that they are right to hate and the premier says so. That is what they pay him for.

Once a year, Mike Rann is happy to go do exactly that.

If he were running a radio station he’d be prosecuted like they were in the ´Cash for Comments´ scandal. Mike Rann is making comments in return for donations. The only difference I can see between Mike Rann at the Dimitria Festival and John Laws at 2UE is fewer golden microphones and more roasting goats. We accept it is bad for a radio host to plug products for money without disclosure – what about a politician spouting vitriol against ethnic groups for political donations?

Donations to political parties are a very contentious area and they can damage the way a democratic system works. Respected veteran Australian diplomat John Mendanue stated:

"Corporate donations are a major threat to our political and democratic system, whether it be state governments fawning before property developers, the Prime Minister providing ethanol subsidies to a party donor, or the immigration minister using his visa clientele to tap into ethnic money."

Note the mention of ´Ethnic Money´. If the political donation system in South Australia weren’t so poorly run, which I believe is more to do with what it can hide than anything else, it would show that the South Australian Labour Party plays the ´Ethnic Money´ game heavily. Rann´s comments are a symptom of this.

Playing one ethnic group against another is something that should not happen in Australia.

- What if Prime Minister Rudd got up in a Pakistani community group and said "Indians are unworthy of their identity – don’t call them Indians" - and we found out that a related minister was soliciting funds from the Pakistani community as a consequence? Wouldn’t we be outraged?

- What if Julia Gillard got up in a Somali community organization and said Ethiopians are not worthy of being called Ethiopians; that the Somalis own Ancient Ethiopian history? What if she did that for donations? Wouldn’t that be seen as being inappropriate for a minister?

Why then, do we have Premier Mike Rann getting up in a public event and stating ´Macedonians are not Macedonians?´ He in his role of Premier of South Australia is denying the ethnicity of Macedonians.
He is supporting the violation of our human rights as outlined in the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, Article 1. He is doing this to score points, and donations, from certain elements within the Greek community. Here we have a Premier who is happy to create ethnic division in Australia for his own ends.

I hope other politicians – as it appears is happening – will clean up the mess and let Australians know that ethnic division is not a game tolerated in Australian politics. In relation to Mike - I probably don’t need to convince anybody to vote a particular way – it seems Mike has done that himself. I just hope he retires happily, gets his affairs in order and, like many retired men, finds happiness on the golf course. It is alleged that he knows how to do that.


By Alexandra Aleksovska

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/view/141559

[makedonin]

It is sad that human Rights which should Be valued by evry democratic Society is being ignored, and EU and Australia should Know what Self-Determination means. But who is there to remind them if they have "forgoten". I have being posting that fact as comments to the recent Gruevski v.s. Shamatsis articles in few online papers. The only One who Published my comment was nova makedonija. That got me thinking.

It appears that our own people don't care about their God given right,so Why should anyone Else?

Sad but true!

[Risto the Great]

What did I care about my own human rights when I was a kid? Absolutely nothing. As I get older my thought processes have distilled to a greater extent. I simply cannot think of anything worse than being denied liberty and freedom. How dare anybody deny Macedonians the ability to celebrate and involve themselves with their ethnicity. I am disgusted with Rann.

[Buktop]

My apologies for not posting sooner to avoid this whole mess,

I was not having a go at anyone or any organization.

As Prolet had mentioned I am curious as to how these matters come to the attention of the Australian organizations, I asked a genuine question and yet all people here can come up with is "UMD UMD UMD..."

I used AMHRC as an example since people here seem to feel that they are the authority on these sorts of issues, and I am glad they have initiated legal action and I am proud of their initiative. The fact that everyone here jumped at me the second I questioned why AMHRC, or any other Australian organization for that matter, had no clue as to the very public statements Rann was making shows me a bit of hypocrisy here. It is beneficial and necessary to criticize UMD but say one word about AMHRC and I am automatically an anti-Macedonian jealous shit stirrer...

My intention was to point out the deficiencies in the vigilance of Macedonian organizations, when a public figure such as a premiere makes statements such as the ones Rann made at the Greek rally, those statements are usually public and they are usually documented by video or by reporters who attend the events, had it not been pointed out to AMHRC by people like MP the incident would have passed into obscurity. What does that say about the effectiveness of the so called "watch dog's" of the community?

I thought constructive criticism was necessary guys? I guess it's a one way street for some...


As for the questions about UMD, don't bother asking me hypothetical questions, I am not the UMD, if you want to know what they would have done ask them yourself. I have not once said that UMD should not have picked up on this, and when I say Australian Organizations, I include UMD in this.

Now can we get back onto the topic?

[Phoenix]

My apologies for not posting sooner to avoid this whole mess,

I was not having a go at anyone or any organization.

As Prolet had mentioned I am curious as to how these matters come to the attention of the Australian organizations, I asked a genuine question and yet all people here can come up with is "UMD UMD UMD..."

I used AMHRC as an example since people here seem to feel that they are the authority on these sorts of issues, and I am glad they have initiated legal action and I am proud of their initiative. The fact that everyone here jumped at me the second I questioned why AMHRC, or any other Australian organization for that matter, had no clue as to the very public statements Rann was making shows me a bit of hypocrisy here. It is beneficial and necessary to criticize UMD but say one word about AMHRC and I am automatically an anti-Macedonian jealous shit stirrer...

My intention was to point out the deficiencies in the vigilance of Macedonian organizations, when a public figure such as a premiere makes statements such as the ones Rann made at the Greek rally, those statements are usually public and they are usually documented by video or by reporters who attend the events, had it not been pointed out to AMHRC by people like MP the incident would have passed into obscurity. What does that say about the effectiveness of the so called "watch dog's" of the community?

I thought constructive criticism was necessary guys? I guess it's a one way street for some...


As for the questions about UMD, don't bother asking me hypothetical questions, I am not the UMD, if you want to know what they would have done ask them yourself. I have not once said that UMD should not have picked up on this, and when I say Australian Organizations, I include UMD in this.

Now can we get back onto the topic?

Shut up Buktop...you American arse kisser.

By all accounts the Rann video was hidden and only released at an appropriate time, whatever the fuck that means...

Take it up with the fuckwit that hid the video, not with the AMHRC...

[Buktop]

Shut up Buktop...you American arse kisser.

By all accounts the Rann video was hidden and only released at an appropriate time, whatever the fuck that means...

Take it up with the fuckwit that hid the video, not with the AMHRC...

Nice to hear from you again Phoenix, I see you are still PMSing,

The evidence of the incident was readily available and was circulated through the Macedonian communities as I understood it, MP wasn't the only one who knew about it, but he was smart enough to come up with a plan on how to use it, it isn't his fault that none of the Australian orgs are capable of watching the comments made by government officials.

Why do the organizations exist if they are not capable of identifying issues? The public statements of government officials are not secret or hidden information, anyone with working eyes can find them if they are looking.

[Grotius]

Buktop,

if you are talking about the Rann video, you are wrong. it was not public. nobody could know about it unless they were at the event. As MP_MK himself stated, one of the South Australian "leaders" got a copy of the homemade video and kept it under wraps. nobody knew about it. Not even MP_MK. the very same day it was made public to all, the AMHRC acted by lodging legal action. the UMD acted by seeking PR opportunities.

[Phoenix]

Nice to hear from you again Phoenix, I see you are still PMSing,

The evidence of the incident was readily available and was circulated through the Macedonian communities as I understood it, MP wasn't the only one who knew about it, but he was smart enough to come up with a plan on how to use it, it isn't his fault that none of the Australian orgs are capable of watching the comments made by government officials.

Why do the organizations exist if they are not capable of identifying issues? The public statements of government officials are not secret or hidden information, anyone with working eyes can find them if they are looking.

Listen moron, we've been over this since the video "mysteriously" surfaced on the eve of the UMD tour, whether that is a coincidence or not isn't the issue but we'll use that as the date-stamp or reference point...

When you're finished blowing sunshine up MP's arse take some timeout to ask him why the video was hidden, from memory there was a host of "excuses" that he used.

Now, I don't speak on behalf of the AMHRC but I would assume that their organization is manned by dedicated volunteers, probably of limited numbers that are predominantly located in Melbourne.
The said incident occured in another city, in another State of Australia and as good as the AMHRC are they aren't superheroes that can be everywhere at everytime, a concept that even a total fuckwit would grasp.

[Risto the Great]

The evidence of the incident was readily available and was circulated through the Macedonian communities as I understood it, MP wasn't the only one who knew about it, but he was smart enough to come up with a plan on how to use it, it isn't his fault that none of the Australian orgs are capable of watching the comments made by government officials.

Why do the organizations exist if they are not capable of identifying issues? The public statements of government officials are not secret or hidden information, anyone with working eyes can find them if they are looking.

Spare me Buktop. MP_MK supposedly knew about it before Rann did. Nothing happened from him until a few days before the UMD got here. MP_MK got the actual video footage from the original Adelaide community a couple of weeks ago. Tell me about a plan that takes 2 months to implement Buktop. Why did it take him 2 months? I didn't recall him telling the AMHRC anything over the last 2 months. Now he talks about them as though they are familiar friends, but alas, they don't know him. Go figure.

The original Adelaide community had its head so far up its arse that it thought it would wait until it would get a government grant before raising any protest about the incident.

Why did the Adelaide organisations miss it? Not many go to Greek events. Is that a reasonable answer? Probably not, but my local community appears to be so dumbed down that they thought it prudent to wait for some grant before voicing a protest.

Hope that helps you somehow.

[Buktop]

The original Adelaide community had its head so far up its arse that it thought it would wait until it would get a government grant before raising any protest about the incident.

Why did the Adelaide organisations miss it? Not many go to Greek events. Is that a reasonable answer? Probably not, but my local community appears to be so dumbed down that they thought it prudent to wait for some grant before voicing a protest.

Hope that helps you somehow.

Thanks for the explanation, if someone had just answered my questions to begin with, this whole argument could have been avoided, but no everyone has to get offended and jump at the first sign of criticism. I am not from Australia, and I do not know what goes on in the communities there, a little patience and understanding would be nice rather than wasting time arguing just to get my questions answered...

[Risto the Great]

This was stated weeks ago.

[Buktop]

This was stated weeks ago.

Well then a simple link to the relevant thread would have sufficed wouldn't it? I asked the question and people misinterpreted it, no one bothered to show me where this was all stated.