South Australian Premier Mike Rann, an enemy to Macedonians

[MP_MK]

You still don't get it do you? It's obvious you are clueless even when it comes to the most simple things! You haven't worked out what is dividing our people, as long as you conrtibute to the cause you will not be able to contribute to the solution - what you are doing here contributes to the cause of the problem. You know where I am!

Again:

Are you are inviting me to your home or office or church in order to try to assult me and put me in an ambulance? Is this correct?

[Rogi]

Macedonians from the Aegean part of Macedonia, Macedonians from the Pirin part of Macedonia and Macedonians from Mala Prespa and Golo Brdo, are entitled and are able to receive Macedonian citizenship.

There is however, a bit more of a process in obtaining the citizenship as there is for someone who's parents or grandparents may be from the Republic of Macedonia.

This process is mainly because of procedure and paperwork reasons (i.e. they don't have a 'matichen broj' or any parents with a 'matichen broj' from the Republic of Macedonia, which is what the citizenship records are based on).

A 'matichen broj' is the number issued and applied to a birth certificate.

[MP_MK]

Don, please clarify.

You have crossed the line in a way you might not have anticipated, and I need clarification on your position urgently.

[Daniel]

Considering that there has been some misinformation on this forum concerning the communities that make up the Adelaide Macedonian diaspora, I have decided to give a brief overview of the schisms. I am sure the people like RTG will agree with my description.

The VMRO-DPMNE group was the first to cede from the original community in the early 90’s. This might not have been their original plan, although, considering that the constitution of the community specifically states that it cannot be politically aligned, it was the obvious outcome. Although, considering that original community was the only one with a church, dance group, school etc. the members of VMRO would still frequent the original community for these reasons.

When Petar came in 97, he almost immediately said that the properties of the community (not just the church) should be under the control of the synod and that he should have the titles. Obviously, the members of the community were not content, as they had built everything on their own. The priest of the time was then asked to give the list of members of the comity of the church over to Petar. If he did do this, he was guaranteed a job for life at the community; however, he refused and stated that there was no comity chosen.

Not long after this event, some Macedonians gathered at an Anglican church (I believe that is correct) near Sv. Naum to chose another comity. The one chosen was mainly made of, if not completely of members of the VMRO community.

So I do not agree that anyone was kicked out pre say, it was more an intentional exodus.

[Daniel]

Might i also add, that the VMRO community now uses the church that is under Petar, also known as soborot na Presveta Bogorodica, although endeavor to have their own events. For example, they hire out a hall every sunday for those small amount of people willing to come; and for this reason, are a separate community, which only uses the assets of the others.

[makedonche]

Don, please clarify.

You have crossed the line in a way you might not have anticipated, and I need clarification on your position urgently.

MP_MK those were your words not mine:-
"Don how about you just try knock me out or put me in an ambulance in front of everyone on Wednesday? Show the whole community the true face of Don?

Keep playing, let's see how far you can push it."

Can you see this? This is me clarifying, that is your quote not mine!
By the the way I had a telephone call from someone claiming to be your uncle, can you confirm this?

[Stojacanec]

As an abservation:

Yes there are heated exchanges from both MP_MK and Makedonche.

However, I think MP_MK refering to not having respect from his family is below the belt. Also when addressing people on this forum people should stick to the forum names and no other.

[MP_MK]

MP_MK those were your words not mine:-
"Don how about you just try knock me out or put me in an ambulance in front of everyone on Wednesday? Show the whole community the true face of Don?

Keep playing, let's see how far you can push it."

Can you see this? This is me clarifying, that is your quote not mine!
By the the way I had a telephone call from someone claiming to be your uncle, can you confirm this?

No Don, you told me to come visit you and to order an ambulance on the way. I was clarifying where to come visit you- at the church, office or home.

My uncle? My uncle would not waste his time calling a pleb like you and I wouldn't waste my uncle's time, telling him about you.

I have many non-blood related "unlces, brothers & cousins" in Adelaide, i'm sure many of which you have heard of, if you freely use your heavy handed techniques ...as only people that are connected in Adelaide can do so.

I called an "uncle" to see if he wanted to come for a drive, as you mentioned you had an "audience waiting for me" ...I only gave him your name, I don't have your phone number anymore.

How embarassing is this situation you have caused? All from a loose tongue on a forum?

[makedonche]

No Don, you told me to come visit you and to order an ambulance on the way. I was clarifying where to come visit you- at the church, office or home.

My uncle? My uncle would not waste his time calling a pleb like you and I wouldn't waste my uncle's time, telling him about you.

I have many non-blood related "unlces, brothers & cousins" in Adelaide, i'm sure many of which you have heard of, if you freely use your heavy handed techniques ...as only people that are connected in Adelaide can do so.

I called an "uncle" to see if he wanted to come for a drive, as you mentioned you had an "audience waiting for me" ...I only gave him your name, I don't have your phone number anymore.

How embarassing is this situation you have caused? All from a loose tongue on a forum?

Michael,
This is not embaressing at all, it highlights the different viewpoints we have and produces good healthy debate( with the exception of a few uncalled for comments). This situation existed before we discussed it on this forum. It is this situation that I believe is the cause of underlying ill feelings which need to be brought out in the open and debated rigourously. Take the time to read some of the other posts from Daniel and others, you'll see they have entered the discussion because it affects them and all of us! My intention was to debate with you regarding the split in the communities and how we can repair the split so the next generation don't have to go through it! I'ts obvious I can't debate this with you, you obviously have no position on the other community board and therefore can't speak on their behalf. That being the case there is no point to further debate, don't you agree?

[MP_MK]

Michael,
This is not embaressing at all, it highlights the different viewpoints we have and produces good healthy debate( with the exception of a few uncalled for comments). This situation existed before we discussed it on this forum. It is this situation that I believe is the cause of underlying ill feelings which need to be brought out in the open and debated rigourously. Take the time to read some of the other posts from Daniel and others, you'll see they have entered the discussion because it affects them and all of us! My intention was to debate with you regarding the split in the communities and how we can repair the split so the next generation don't have to go through it! I'ts obvious I can't debate this with you, you obviously have no position on the other community board and therefore can't speak on their behalf. That being the case there is no point to further debate, don't you agree?

No, your intention is to put me in an ambulance and now you will take responsibility for those words.

[Risto the Great]

MP_MK and Makedonche, this debate descended into some ugly territory with both of you not helping. Macedonche receiving threatening phone calls was a ridiculous conclusion. And that is what this is ... a conclusion. Thread is locked.

[Prolet]

Call For Calm

Its always disturbing to see personal attacks and even threats to violence. Its no good for anybody and it helps our enemies, what we need is a healthy debate especially and a dialogue in order for achieve this. I applaud our people of South Australia for taking the approach to sort this out, we cant change the past but we can change the future however this is exactly what i dont encourage is to result to personal attacks because they only lead to violence and nothing more.

Let this be a lesson to everyone (Including Myself) dont attack people just because they share a different opinion, nobody is perfect however this is why we can all have a good debate with stating all the facts instead of using street language and attacking eachother that wont do anybody any good.

MP and Makedonche, both of you are great people and its great that you're discussing the issues of our community in South Australia and the people there have suffered the most out of this especially with the Mike Rann saga so look for the positives, look for a solution, look for ideas, you both share the same goal and thats unity in the South Australian Community which is bitterly divided and it has been for 15 years, its time to do the right thing and push for a stronger community.

[Risto the Great]

I agree with your sentiments Prolet.
However, I do not agree that everyone's goal is unity in the South Australian Macedonian Community. If that was the case, the church dispute would have been cast aside many years ago. A better goal is unity in relation to the Macedonian Cause.

[MP_MK]

Rann Summary

I advised a couple of weeks ago that I would summarise the Rann initiative, so I will.

I wanted to go into greater detail, so that lessons can be learnt, but I won’t.

Here is a very brief dot point on what unfolded, there is much more, but you will get the idea:


Was made aware of the video mid December.

Was assured that all necessary officials were made aware of it, and that appropriate action was taking place.

Followed the issue up in mid January.

Was made aware that no action had been taken, furthermore the video had been suppressed.

Another member of the community emailed me the video.

Emailed the video to the Australian Macedonian officials, including the Embassy.

One week had past and I made some follow up emails and phone calls to those officials to ask what action had been taken. I received replies such as: “What are the Macedonians in Adelaide going to do about it”. …nothing was done on their part.

It was apparent that the Macedonians in Adelaide were not going to do anything about it, as nothing had been done for 12 weeks.

Postponed an overseas trip and made a 2 week allowance available, to deal with the matter.

Contacted channel 7, 9 and 10, Today Tonight, A Current Affair, SBS and ABC.

Compiled a database of opposition leaders within politics.

Compiled a database of ethnic minorities in Adelaide who are involved in politics.

Compiled a database of Australian newspapers and magazines.

Made an appointment with the SA opposition leader- Isobel Redmond.

I formed an “A team” from my network, which included the leaders and members of international diaspora orgs, ex Macedonian Minister, current Macedonian government officials / representatives and Producers / Editors from Maceodnian media channels- both TV & Print etc…

This was the quick, skeletal, on the run plan which was emailed to the group, along with the video:

Hi All,



Regarding the issue of Mike Rann.

Below is a skeletal, penciled in strategy which needs to be built upon together and agreed upon in the coming days. If implemented correctly we can use this opportunity for maximum exposure for the greater Macedonian cause within Australia and abroad.

We are collectively disturbed by what has taken place. By using our network and collaborating together with a uniformed approach, we will succeed in ending this discrimination and racism within Australia on a political level and I believe there is great opportunity here to push forward and continue to press the Australian government to recognize Macedonia as the “Republic of Macedonia” and not as “FYROM”.

Although initially this was a local issue, it indeed is a national and international issue and it needs to be treated as such. Personally, I feel in many ways that some of us are missing the full scope and potential of this opportunity.

To date, I have made contact with television programs: ‘Today Tonight’, ‘A Current Affair’, ‘ABC’, ‘SBS (world news / dateline)’, Channel 7, 9 and 10.

“Today Tonight” have advised me today that there is a 90% chance they will run with the story. The Supervising Head Producer placed the call to me earlier today and I will meet with him tomorrow and push for a national segment, not just South Australia. Of course only appropriate and agreed upon representatives should be spearheading the interviews.

‘A Current Affair’ are making contact with me again tomorrow or Tuesday and I hope to get the deal over the line with them on a national level also.

I have further discussions with Channel 7, 9 and 10 during the week and will aim to secure exposure in good timing.


If I could suggest the following as a point of start:


PHASE 1


1. The video needs to be shown within Macedonia, on news, ASAP. The screening of the video combined with national out cry within Macedonia will make headlines within Australia once I can secure the news channels, ACA & Today Tonight programs etc… to come on board. Mike Rann has directly attacked the President of Macedonia. For an Australian politician to directly attack the President of a country on such a topic, brings negative exposure to Australia on a whole and in light of recent international out cry, regarding the racial attacks in Melbourne, this will fall in line and add to an already existing topic of racism within Australia and will create maximum exposure for us.


2. The Video needs to be circulated within Macedonia, Canada, USA & New Zealand and official Macedonian bodies from Macedonia, Canada, USA & New Zealand need to make noise and write official letters to the Australian Government and media. Key individuals within the Government of Macedonia and UMD can facilitate this through their overseas networks.


3. All Australian press media (articles) should be uniformed, consistent and of course originating from the appropriate individuals / organizations. All newspapers on a national level are to be contacted and the story made public at every opportunity.


4. All opposition politicians should be contacted. The opposition party will come on board and can use this opportunity to attack and dismantle Mike Rann. Additionally, they have easier access to various media channels which perhaps our community does not have access to.


5. The legal aspect has been initiated by AMHRC and they will follow through on the legal and Human right matters. This needs to be well coordinated and approached from all available angles.


PHASE 2:

On a political level, a campaign to have Australia recognize Macedonia as the "Republic of Macedonia” needs to be formed, again in a joint collaboration effort by all relevant parties.

As stated, this is just a skeletal strategy and needs to be built upon by all parties.

The key point is that we approach the matter on a national and international level and use this as an opportunity to address greater issues regarding political awareness, human rights, racism, recognition and having Australia recognize Macedonia as the “Republic of Macedonia".

I understand that not every recipient of this email can act on this, but please be aware of this matter and raise awareness and have those individuals within your network which may be able to assist, make contact to discuss further.


Emailed the video to my Australian database and a member of this forum uploaded it to youtube and posted the link on this forum.

The FB page was created, so that we could monitor the public response and ensure it did not get out of hand. 3500 members in 3 days joined.

Drafted an email / overview for Kevin Rudd and sent it to his assistant.

Made contact with people within politics that hate Rann- such as Nick xenophon.

Sent the overview to opposition leaders and minority groups in SA.

Sent the overview to all newspapers and magazines in Australia.

Had meetings with Today Tonight / Channel 7 news and channel 10 news.

Organized to pick up the original quality video recording.

Conducted the second interview with Today Tonight- The Head producer advised that he would run with the story, he also advised the format, which was an interview / story structure.

Three officials in Australia had stated that it would be a good idea to have Meto conduct the interview, as he was arriving in Adelaide the following day.

Meto had not been advised of the opportunity at this point.

Received a phone call from AMHRC to discuss the initiative, support was given and terms were agreed upon.

Asked a member of this forum to upload the original quality video to rapidshare, as I was having issues with doing so.

Sent an overview and a link to the original video to contacts at: Sitel / A1 and Kanal 5.

Sent an overview / video to papers in MK and also the official statement from AMHRC which I asked them to prepare earlier.

I got an sms to PM Gruevski who was on an official visit to Prague with DPM, he then made President Ivanov aware of the matter and then I was passed onto the Government spokesman to discuss further.

Sitel, kanal 5 & A1 did exactly what they were advised and made it an international story.

MK papers went to press and they published articles.

All TV stations in MK uploaded their original quality segments, sent them back to me and I downloaded them for local media.

PHASE 1 POINT 1 WAS NOW COMPLETE

PHASE 1 POINT 2 NEVER GOT OFF THE GROUND (USA, CANADA, NEW ZEALAND)

PHASE 1 POINT 3 WAS NOW COMPLETE

PHASE 1 POINT 4 WAS NOW COMPLETE

PHASE 1 POINT 5 HAD BEGUN


Received a call from Today Tonight advising that their legal team advised that moving forward with the promised story / interview was not wise, as Mike Rann was currently suing them. They did advise however, that they will use the information and run a story at some point.

Went in for a meeting with Isobel Redmond to discuss further, after a one hour meeting, it was decided that she would use this information on an attack on Rann during the upcoming election campaign.

Sent every media and press contact, the contact information of the: Embassy officials, Honary Members and General Consul and MK government spokesman, to confirm matters on an official level and also the details of both Meto from UMD and Jason from AMHRC.

ABC called to advise that they wanted to run the story and asked me to not pitch it to other stations (this is how eager they were), they then made phone calls to officials and all the officials referred them back to the embassy and the embassy were not answering their questions and furthermore making things difficult. These are some of the emails I received from ABC:

Thanks again Michael.

I have sent an email to Mr Martinoski and await his reply. I have also left a message for Savo Sibinovski and others and also await a reply

Will be in touch.


Hi Michael,

Like I said last night I've been unable to confirm (and have tried again this morning) if Macedonia has pulled its vote for Australia.

The other angles you raise are certainly stories, but have been covered in part in other media, so I really need something new for news.

I understand if you pitch your story elsewhere, I will keep onto the Embassy and others for confirmation and will hopefully get the jump on any decision when it is made.

I really appreciate your time and effort in informing me thus far.

Hope we can still keep in touch.


ABC gave up in the end, they were completely frustrated with the lack of information or help from our community. They were going to run a 4 to 7 minute segment on the issue- Wasted opportunity.

The Opposition party called to advise that they were not going to follow the matter any longer. This was surprising, they simply went cold overnight. I assume they did not want to get on the wrong side of the greeks also.

Followed up with the other news channels and programs. Two of the news channels stated that they would not do a segment because a small article had been released to AdelaideNow (this is the exact reason I told all parties not to act independently. That small article in an online paper destroyed the chances of 2 TV segments, because they now viewed the issue as “old news” and not TV news worthy.



I worked on this initiative for 18 hours a day for 3 weeks (not 2 as initially expected), and ALL the work went to waste because:

1. The community in Australia are not networked enough to organize a public out cry at short notice.

2. The Australian officials are not professional enough or lack the motivation to speak to the media.

3. Individuals acted independently and jeopardised the initiative.


I can tell you now- I used personal contacts to get tv stations to agree to run with this story. There will never be another opportunity such as this within the next decade. If we can not make this work with such a great opportunity and media contacts, it will never work.

The forum out cry and attacks here, against me personally, was disgusting. I can honestly say that it was the first time I was embarrassed to be associated with Macedonians (not all, but most).

The fight against Rann is not over, but it is no longer a fight against Rann, there is a bigger issue at play.

I believe there is a huge misconception, that if matters are passed onto AMHRC, then the matter is being dealt with on every angle. The Macedonian community in Australia needs to take responsibility on the whole and do the ground work. The AMHRC can not do everything and neither should they be expected to.

Putting aside some aspects of Phase 1 point 2 (due to certain people not coming on board and sharing the initiative) and one individual acting independently, the initiative was executed swiftly and correctly. It was the Macedonian community in Australia that let the initiative down. For not:

1: Causing a public out cry
2: Not speaking to Media when the media placed emails / calls to them.

I’m currently drafting an overview to get the Australian community properly networked and will distribute this overview to the appropriate officials and community leaders, what they do with it will be up to them.

I wonder how this initiative would have unfolded if it had the support of let’s say, 1000 Macedonians in Australia? ….Actually I wonder how it would have unfolded if it had the support of just 10 Macedonians.




As I advised RTG weeks ago- When the Rann issue is over with, I will be leaving this forum.

Please do go ahead and delete my account.

Good luck to you all.

[slovenec zrinski]

5* to you for your work with this...
Now be prepared to be taken down and your post to be taken apart, scrutinized and criticised on nano-level.