South Australian Premier Mike Rann, an enemy to Macedonians

[indigen]

Mr Kostoff says Greek and Macedonian cultures are not one and the same and has written to the Premier's office demanding an apology.

"Not only is our culture different but our language and our history, our religion are different. The distinction between what is actually a Slav Macedonian and a Greek is very obvious, particularly to us," he said.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/05/24/1931850.htm

Let Google do the work!

And it has played well into the hands of Greek propaganda!

[makedonche]

I have created a group on facebook join it and post your thoughts on the matter.

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/group.php?gid=283777819076&ref=ts

____________________
MACEDONIAN PRIDE

Daniel,
Think about what you are doing before you go blindly starting something! Do you think it's a good idea to have that map on the site?

[Risto the Great]

Date: May 28 2007 - 3:05pm

The Executive Committee have spoken to Steve on this issue and have made it clear that the word "Slav" is not to be used at all when referring to Macedonians. We believe this was a slip up on his part but either way he was told that this is unacceptable.

Regards
Executive Committee

A response to a personal email from me (to the executive committee) at the time of the publication.

[MP_MK]

If "UMD" is all we have in USA, then I can easily conclude we have NO Macedonian representation there as well. We have in "UMD", as I said previously, a self-appointed VRHOVIST and RAMKOVIST support group. Ramkovist Macedonia is worse than Yugoslav Macedonia and is completely anti-Macedonian and thus I look forward to its overthrow and downfall. If you or anybody else are not part of the solution, then you are part of the Ramkovist problem!


Since you just stated that he is in Australia, why would he not be aware of the self-promotion opportunity for UMD? In any case, I said "is this an excuse for self-promotion for a politically dubious organization? Would you make the same claim if MPO had a rep arriving here also?" and is thus relevant to the "organisation", which has members in Australia.



It is not debatable (though I am willing to debate on the issues) for me, he is a Bugaroman with a capitol B!

The following info for your perusal:
Fokus (mk): Publishes politically compromising photos of Antonio Miloshoski from 1999
Чиј идентитет штити човекот што во 1999-та се постројуваше под Бугарското знаме?

Министерот за надворешни работи Антонио Милошоски кој најревносно го брани македонскиот национален идентитет во спорот околу името со грција, е снимен во 1999 г. заедно со претставници на младинската организација на бугарското ВМРО (БНД), како со бугарски знамињна го чествува гробот на великанот вмровски водач Тодор Александров. Честитаќи му ја Новата Година на Милошоски со желба да го заштити идентитетот на Македонците, фамозниот Красимир Божинов од Софија ни најавува и други ексклузивни снимки!

[....]

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=2371

Za Potsetuvanje - Razno

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1761&page=2

As Aleksandar Donski is long published in Australia, perhaps his views might give extra weight to the question.

(Повод: текстот на Антонио Милошоски за Христо Татарчев објавен во "Утрински весник" на 18.12.2004 година)
ВМРО никогаш порано не се викало БМОРК
Александар Донски

Антонио Милошоски (инаку висок функционер на ВМРО-ДПМНЕ) продолжува во своите историски текстови да подметнува невистини во врска со македонската историја. Така прво во својот текст "За континуитетот на името Македонија"("Утрински весник",16 и 17.10.2004) тој тврдеше дека името Македонија во минатото на овие простори се "загубило", но во почетокот од 19 век го "оживеале" европските картографи. Значи, според него, нашиот народ до 19 век не знаел во која земја живее (па ни каква етничка припадност има), но потоа, откако ги "видел" картите нацртани од Европејците, сфатил дека живее во Македонија. Се разбира дека ваквото тврдење е бесмислено, имајќи го предвид степенот на познавање на странската картографија од страна на (во голем број нешколуваните) Македонци од почетокот на 19 век, па и подоцна. Милошоски тврди дека ВМРО отпрвин се викало БМОРК (Бугарско-македонско-одрински револуционерен комитет). Но, ниту ова не е вистина и ваквото тврдење претставува чиста артикулација на големобугарската антимакедонска пропаганда. Дека ВМРО порано, наводно, се викало БМОРК е измислица од поново време (конкретно од пропагандната машинерија на режимот на Тодор Живков). Но, од каде знаеме дека ВМРО никогаш порано не се викало БМОРК? Одговорот на ова прашање е многу едноставен. Денес се зачувани мемоари на основачите на оваа организација, па доколку ВМРО отпрвин се викало БМОРК, зошто тогаш ниту еден од нив не го спомнува ваквото име во своите спомени? Како е можно некој да пишува спомени за организација што самиот ја создал без да го спомне ваквото нејзино име? Поради ова, кај Милошоски или е во прашање непознавање на она за што пишува или свесен обид да се поттури оваа големобугарска провокација.

http://star.utrinski.com.mk/?pBroj=1659&stID=27508&pR=9

Feel free to discuss AM under the FoKus thread.

The decision was "penciled in" yesterday while Meto was flying somewhere over the Pacific ..not reachable.



It is debatable.

[MP_MK]

I have created a group on facebook join it and post your thoughts on the matter.

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/group.php?gid=283777819076&ref=ts

____________________
MACEDONIAN PRIDE

Daniel,

Why start anotyher group? Support the one that exists and get behind it united.

[Daniel the Great]

Yes it would be better to have 1 united group but i thoght it will also be good to have another group but i will keep what yous have said in mind.




____________________
MACEDONIAN PRIDE

[MP_MK]

I think time and significance are good references. The original Adelaide Macedonian community can easily be called the first community. They paved the way for many Macedonians to celebrate their identity in Australia. The second community crystallised from a financial dispute that involved the MOC. This "second community" supports the present Vladika in his attempts to usurp the "first community's" assets. Generally, the people who contributed less to the "first community" could not care less about the community assets, hence the schism. Notwithstanding this, the priest who represents their parish is a lovely gentleman and is only surpassed by his lovelier wife. It was a sorry day to see them leave our community due to his perceived obligations to the Vladika.

The more Macedonian communities the better. As long as they are completely aligned with the Macedonian Cause, what should it matter.

RTG:

Members of both communities stem from the original Maceodnian community, hence both are just as legitimate as each other.

I can assure you putting aside disputes higher up in ranking interstate / overseas, that not one individual from my church has any financial motives against our former church. If people within your church are saying so, they need to be held accountable for spreading rumors, simple.

I would disagree with your comments regarding our community contributing less at the former church. My uncle is the Kum of our Priests children, we have been there since they arrived in Australia and of course prior to arrival and I know the ins and outs regarding what took place, financial contributions etc.. etc..

As you have stated: The Priest and Wife are indeed lovely people and always have their heart in the right place. They did not willingly leave the former church, it was not their decision to make if you recall?

In regards to your statement "the more Macedonian communities the better", I heard this exact same line form a member of your community this week and my reply was:

You are correct, there are many, many Italian & Greek churches / clubs, however the critical and point of difference is that the Italian & Greek churches / clubs are in high number due to population, not due to community splits and dis function. In no way would I personally see this as a sign of a maturing community, I interpret it as division, because division is indeed what we are dealing with, to think otherwise would only be avoiding the truth.

I look forward to discussing these matters with you over coffee.

[indigen]

The decision was "penciled in" yesterday while Meto was flying somewhere over the Pacific ..not reachable.
It is debatable.

My reference was to the organisation and thus all your ranting about Meto not knowing is irrelevant.

If you think AM's long-known Bugaroman orientation is debatable, feel free to debate it in the relevant thread.


RTG,
Thanks for the info re SK 2007 inappropriate comments. It is good to see patriotic Macedonians being ideologically on the ball.

Cheers

[MP_MK]

My reference was to the organisation and thus all your ranting about Meto not knowing is irrelevant.

If you think AM's long-known Bugaroman orientation is debatable, feel free to debate it in the relevant thread.


RTG,
Thanks for the info re SK 2007 inappropriate comments. It is good to see patriotic Macedonians being ideologically on the ball.

Cheers

Not relevant? The decision was penciled in all of 19 hours ago, put some perspective on the matter.

[Risto the Great]

RTG:

Members of both communities stem from the original Maceodnian community, hence both are just as legitimate as each other.

I can assure you putting aside disputes higher up in ranking interstate / overseas, that not one individual from my church has any financial motives against our former church. If people within your church are saying so, they need to be held accountable for spreading rumors, simple.

I would disagree with your comments regarding our community contributing less at the former church. My uncle is the Kum of our Priests children, we have been there since they arrived in Australia and of course prior to arrival and I know the ins and outs regarding what took place, financial contributions etc.. etc..

As you have stated: The Priest and Wife are indeed lovely people and always have their heart in the right place. They did not willingly leave the former church, it was not their decision to make if you recall?

In regards to your statement "the more Macedonian communities the better", I heard this exact same line form a member of your community this week and my reply was:

You are correct, there are many, many Italian & Greek churches / clubs, however the critical and point of difference is that the Italian & Greek churches / clubs are in high number due to population, not due to community splits and dis function. In no way would I personally see this as a sign of a maturing community, I interpret it as division, because division is indeed what we are dealing with, to think otherwise would only be avoiding the truth.

I look forward to discussing these matters with you over coffee.

MP_MK, the contributions issue is a statement of fact that cannot be distorted. Much of the assets of the original community were funded by the first wave of immigrants who came to Australia. It is a fact, it does not prove who is more Macedonian. A simple additional fact is that most long standing members of the community have remained with the original community and that newer immigrants have seemed to migrate to the newer community.

I am not sure if you are being very careful with your wording about "not one individual from my church has any financial motives against our former church" but if you are excluding the Vladika, I have no reason to doubt you.

I was at the back of Sv Naum when Fr. Sumracki was talking to my Father. The day he left. It was clear in no uncertain terms that Fr. Sumracki was offered complete domain of Sv. Naum if he chose to serve his flock rather than the Vladika. If you are suggesting he was kicked out, your information is incorrect. He stated his hands were tied and he chose to remain faithful to the MOC. He made his choice and did what he felt he had to do. He was not kicked out and I can vouch for this, not from rumours, I was there.

I made a qualifying remark about "the more communities the better". If they can indeed align themselves with the Macedonian Cause, I stand by my comment.

cheers

[julie]

Daniel,

Why start anotyher group? Support the one that exists and get behind it united.

I agree, and welcome to the forum MP_MK,
Daniel, I understand your anger and frustration, perhaps it may be an idea to allow the wonderful work the AMHRC have already started.We dont want to be seen as discrimnatory ourselves, I know you are upset about it, we all are.
Back in December, I felt the same anger and unfortunately was not able to do anything about it.
I am so pleased to see the 2 Macedonian communities within Adelaide working together for the common cause. And it was with great sadness that I saw the split , such a small community here in Adelaide
Once again, I am disappointed with the comments attacking individuals and groups.
Exposure is a good thing, let the truth prevail and come out.
On all levels.
And its time the Macedonians woke up everywhere across the whole world and UNITED , for the common goal and good of all Macedonians.
Let the UMD , AMHRC, anyone that has a voice, do its best and support the Macedonians
IN UNITY

[MP_MK]

MP_MK, the contributions issue is a statement of fact that cannot be distorted. Much of the assets of the original community were funded by the first wave of immigrants who came to Australia. It is a fact, it does not prove who is more Macedonian. A simple additional fact is that most long standing members of the community have remained with the original community and that newer immigrants have seemed to migrate to the newer community.

I am not sure if you are being very careful with your wording about "not one individual from my church has any financial motives against our former church" but if you are excluding the Vladika, I have no reason to doubt you.

I was at the back of Sv Naum when Fr. Sumracki was talking to my Father. The day he left. It was clear in no uncertain terms that Fr. Sumracki was offered complete domain of Sv. Naum if he chose to serve his flock rather than the Vladika. If you are suggesting he was kicked out, your information is incorrect. He stated his hands were tied and he chose to remain faithful to the MOC. He made his choice and did what he felt he had to do. He was not kicked out and I can vouch for this, not from rumours, I was there.

I made a qualifying remark about "the more communities the better". If they can indeed align themselves with the Macedonian Cause, I stand by my comment.

cheers

You are correct, much of the funding was indeed carried out by the first wave of immigrants, but this is not to say that the following waves and key individuals did not fund and prop up the church while it was going through financial diffculties wihtin the past 3 - 4 decades. If it was not for the collective contribution by ALL members during this period, then the church would not be there today (yes extreme scenario, but I'm painting the picture), correct?


"Not one individual", meaning: no members, couples, groups etc.. within our church.

That is not the information I have, I have (including yours now) 5 different individual recollections of what transpired. two from my side, three from yours. I would like to discuss this under more appropriate circumstances.

Regarding the number of community point: Let's agree to disagree ..it is afterall healthy to have differing view points.

[MP_MK]

I agree, and welcome to the forum MP_MK,
Daniel, I understand your anger and frustration, perhaps it may be an idea to allow the wonderful work the AMHRC have already started.We dont want to be seen as discrimnatory ourselves, I know you are upset about it, we all are.
Back in December, I felt the same anger and unfortunately was not able to do anything about it.
I am so pleased to see the 2 Macedonian communities within Adelaide working together for the common cause. And it was with great sadness that I saw the split , such a small community here in Adelaide
Once again, I am disappointed with the comments attacking individuals and groups.
Exposure is a good thing, let the truth prevail and come out.
On all levels.
And its time the Macedonians woke up everywhere across the whole world and UNITED , for the common goal and good of all Macedonians.
Let the UMD , AMHRC, anyone that has a voice, do its best and support the Macedonians
IN UNITY

AMEN

[Bill77]

The more groups lay boots into scum the better.

But a warning. we must play our cards right and not turn this prick into a Lord Byron, a hero for Greeks. It must be more than Just simply exposing his rants. This must be presented as racial, causing potential violence between ethnic groups (using his words stiring the pot), hurtful for both Macedonian people and Australias image, and his message was Historicaly unsubstantiated.

What must not happen is, the media or Greek loby groups sweeping this under the carpet and turning this into some sort of Freedom of speach or just an opinion.

[Risto the Great]

You are correct, much of the funding was indeed carried out by the first wave of immigrants, but this is not to say that the following waves and key individuals did not fund and prop up the church while it was going through financial diffculties wihtin the past 3 - 4 decades. If it was not for the collective contribution by ALL members during this period, then the church would not be there today (yes extreme scenario, but I'm painting the picture), correct?


"Not one individual", meaning: no members, couples, groups etc.. within our church.

That is not the information I have, I have (including yours now) 5 different individual recollections of what transpired. two from my side, three from yours. I would like to discuss this under more appropriate circumstances.

Regarding the number of community point: Let's agree to disagree ..it is afterall healthy to have differing view points.

Plenty to talk about MP_MK.
As mentioned, I was there and am happy to talk about it in Fr. Sumracki's presence.

I will state unequivocally, the original community has no debt, and never suffered the financial difficulties you seem to suggest over the last 4 decades.

The church was indeed built by all of the Macedonians for all of the Macedonians. Why do you think the Vladika wanted the community hall signed over to him then?