The Shame of Modern Greece by Andrew Apostolou

[Onur]

We may be broke as a country, but as for brains, R&D, Science and technology you guys are light years away from us. For a population of 80 million you have absolutly nothing on us. We have so much of it that we end up exporting Greeks to US, UK and other countries that can actually use their potential. Greece is too small for them.

You are so funny Voltron

Most of the first generation of Greek immigrants in EU and USA was actually from Turkey but not from Greece. As far as i heard, later immigrants from Greece are usually doing shitty jobs in western world and they are poor unlike the first generations.

Science and tech in Greece? LOL? Are you for real? Show me one factory in Greece where you can manufacture F-16 jets, submarines. Lets leave those, tell me if there is one factory to build simple home electronics or cars? Turkey has all of those for decades dude.


Just tell me one industrial sector where Greece is in top10 in the world??? Is there any? I can name you several Turkish companies with top5 or top10 in the world, from construction to agriculture.

Turkish engineer...lol if that is not a paradox I dont know what is. Stick with your kebaps and loukoum. Your out of league.

Yeah yeah, we became 15th biggest economy in the world with kebabs and loukums. So, you better work hard from now on, maybe you can be world`s 14th best economy with souvlaki and gyros

[Voltron]

Greek government has already condemned the incident. In the past, we wouldnt even do that. Things are different now, obviously we cant keep guard of every synagogue in Greece. We are not a totalitarian state, we dont have camreras on streets so that is why we can never catch the ppl that commit these crimes.

We also dont know if they were Greeks. Unless, Im missing something here.

[julie]

Voltron, I dont think this recent incident as something Israel will condone !
Not a very diplomatic strategy

[Voltron]

^ Actually TM, Imagination was spot on.

Onur
Greeks neither have money, technology nor qualified human resources to realize that. So, as soon as we fix our relations, Greece&Israeli fake love affair will be over.

We may be broke as a country, but as for brains, R&D, Science and technology you guys are light years away from us. For a population of 80 million you have absolutly nothing on us. We have so much of it that we end up exporting Greeks to US, UK and other countries that can actually use their potential. Greece is too small for them.

Turkish engineer...lol if that is not a paradox I dont know what is.
Stick with your kebaps and loukoum. Your out of league.

Israel, is the one that had stretched its hand for friendship. We simply accepted. Greece is extremely consistent in its foreign policy. As a matter of fact that has often worked against us. If we wanted to piss you off for "flirting" with Isreal we would of done it long ago. Now with the diaspora Jews on our side aka lobby, we may finally see a level playing field.

[TrueMacedonian]

I don't agree with Onur. Thessaloniki has been a city with most people being Jewish, and nowadays, people from Israel still have trading relations with Greece. And the protests in Greece were against "the Jews" and by Jews, the people mean the "bankers", the "moneylending thieves". They didn't burn Israel's flag in front of a massive public like Turkey, it's more like a protest against banking.

..............................

[Imagination]

I don't agree with Onur. Thessaloniki has been a city with most people being Jewish, and nowadays, people from Israel still have trading relations with Greece. And the protests in Greece were against "the Jews" and by Jews, the people mean the "bankers", the "moneylending thieves". They didn't burn Israel's flag in front of a massive public like Turkey, it's more like a protest against banking.

[Onur]

Thanks to Turkey's falling out with Israel, relations with the Jews have been increasing at an impressive level. The times of anti-Israel rhetoric will be a thing of the past.

This is just a temporary situation. Jews knows how anti-semitic you are and they are perfectly aware of your crimes against them since 1912. There was a good reason of why Greece and Israel never had proper relations for 60+ years, `till this year. Both Greek and current Israeli governments are flirting these days just to piss Turkey off, nothing else. That`s already a habit for all Greek governments; flirting with whoever appears as against Turkey.

Besides that, Greece can never be a backup of Turkey. Turkish and Jewish engineers was doing all kinds of hightech military equipments together and you Greeks neither have money, technology nor qualified human resources to realize that. So, as soon as we fix our relations, Greece&Israeli fake love affair will be over.

You Greeks better go and burn some more Jewish bibles since thats what you do best, destruction.

[Voltron]

Thanks to Turkey's falling out with Israel, relations with the Jews have been increasing at an impressive level. The times of anti-Israel rhetoric will be a thing of the past.

[Droog]

Well, that's the case almost everywhere in the Balkans. For some reasons all Balkans nationalists think that George Soros wants to eat their brains and he's organizing a mass conspiracy to achieve that with their neighbor countries.

[Onur]

The repeat arson attacks on a synagogue in Greece demonstrate that Turkey is not the only Mediterranean democracy cursed with anti-Semitism.

By ANDREW APOSTOLOU

This stupid Americanized Greek named Andrew, apparently searches for a partner for their crimes, probably just to feel a bit relieved.

Since when Turkey became anti-semitic state? Jews lived here for 500+ years and Turkey was the one and only safe heaven for them b4 the formation of USA. Like i said in other thread, not even a single incident occurred in Turkey after flotilla incident. No one even tried to smash the window of their cars, let alone burning their synagogs. I`ve never even heard an incident like sabotaging a synagogue in 500+ years of Jewish history of Turkey.

In Salonika a few young historians have begun to ask questions about the massive theft of Jewish property during the war.

WW-2 events wasn't the first time Greeks looting and destroying Jewish properties. They did it first in 1912, then they looted all Jewish properties when they invaded Izmir in 1919 and after they sabotaged Jewish quarter of Salonika in 1930s, they looted again. WW-2 was their 4th and the last attempt to loot Jewish properties.

[ennea]

In Jan 22, 2010 there were three arrests (among a total of five suspects). This is the only relative article in English that I can find.
All five were charged, it was only one of them, the 32 yo Briton that was jailed while waiting for trial; he was considered the leader of the attack, his attorney says he was working as a waiter. Also, one of the two Americans was eventually arrested.

As is reported today by Georgios Delastik in Ethnos, which was reproduced in various news media including Israeli, and on the blogosphere the culprits in the attack were two Americans working on the Souda US military base, two Britons responsible for training NATO’s marines, and one Greek citizen who acted as the “lookout”. It has also been reported that the two US citizens have sought refuge from Greek police on the base and are likely not in Greece anymore. The US is not cooperating with the Greek local authorities in the matter and refused to release the names of the two Americans. Finally, the two Britons are now being reported to be local British “bartenders” and not involved with NATO. In my view, this smacks of a political “game” gone terribly wrong. If the story as it is unfolding is true, then the question that remains is why was this done? What could have been the motive for something like this? Moreover, the criticism by the US State Department, and the unfortunate article in the Wall Street Journal by a certain Andrew Apostolou were obviously knee-jerk reactions and quite incendiary. The article then continues on to blame Greek indifference to the attack. How could the whole country of Greece and the Greek people be painted in such a negative light for the actions of a few shameful individuals? I for one reject the accusations thrown at the feet of Greeks as a whole. I also have seen reports of how the people of Chania are disgusted with what has happened.

As was asked by Ethnos today: “The nationality of the culprits raises a crucial political question: Were the British and the American culprits using their bases to firebomb the synagogue twice due to their own personal dislike of Jews, or were they acting on orders of the secret services of their nations? In other words, are we dealing with random acts of antisemitic cretinism by four brainless Americans and Brits or with a political provocation of foreign agencies whose aim is to smear Greece’s name to the Jewish world, which holds an important place in the worldwide banking system, during a time when our country finds itself in a very difficult economic situation and therefore needs the help of foreign banks?”

More details (in Greek)

http://www.otenet.gr/portal/portal/info/news/greeknews/crete_eparxiaka?media-type=html&user=anon&js_panename=crete_eparxiaka&action=portlets.PsmlPortletAction&eventsubmit_doview=2497003&category=crete_eparxiaka

[Soldier of Macedon]

Is there any group found within today's Greek borders that hasn't suffered at the hands of Greek racism?

[TrueMacedonian]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704320104575014571634292264.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

The Shame of Modern Greece
The country suffers from a lack of moral leadership denouncing the embarrassment of anti-Semitism.
By ANDREW APOSTOLOU

The repeat arson attacks on a synagogue in Greece demonstrate that Turkey is not the only Mediterranean democracy cursed with anti-Semitism. Arsonists have attacked the Etz Hayyim synagogue in Chania, on the Greek island of Crete, twice this year. The fires on Jan. 5 and 17 have inflicted substantial damage on a structure that was only restored in 1999 after lying derelict since the Holocaust. The attempts to destroy Crete's only synagogue follow a spate of vandalism of Jewish graves in Ioannina in northwestern Greece.

Compounding these acts of violence is Greek society's shameful indifference to anti-Semitism. This was amply demonstrated during the arson incidents in Crete. Non-Greeks played an admirable role in saving the synagogue. An Albanian immigrant was the first to spot the fire in the early hours of Jan. 5. The Albanian caretaker of the synagogue and a Moroccan also rendered vital assistance. Nikos Stavroulakis, the director of the synagogue and the man behind its restoration, has written about the "the lack of 'locals'" on the scene after the first attack—all the more shocking given that these 'locals' would have lost their homes and businesses had the fire spread.

Those who sleep through the night while a synagogue burns in their own town are a metaphor for Greece's attitude to anti-Semitism. The fundamental problem with Greek anti-Semitism is not that it is rampant. It is that in a country of 11 million with just 5,000 Jews, few Greeks care to resist it. Greece suffers from a lack of moral, religious and social leadership denouncing the embarrassment of anti-Semitism, be it vandalism or the now banal comparison of Israel with the Nazis in the national media.

The indifference of many Greeks is unsurprising. The official version of the history ensures that few know of the Jewish component of Greece's past. Many Greeks do not know that their second largest city, Salonika, had a Jewish majority for most of its modern history. Instead of the Holocaust being treated as a moment for moral and historical reflection, it is portrayed as an opportunity for national self-congratulation because of the rescue of a small number of Greek Jews. The genuine heroism of Greek Christians who saved Greek Jews from the Nazis in such places as Zakynthos and Athens is used to obscure the collaboration and indifference that helped condemn tens of thousands of Greek Jews to death in Salonika and northern Greece.

This ignorance has been reinforced by historians, Greek and foreign alike, who have largely skated over collaboration during the Holocaust. Like the Greek government, historians prefer to emphasize the rescue of Jews rather than prompt an examination of the often shameful and ambiguous stance that too many Greeks took during the Second World War. The leaders of Greece's barely 5,000 strong Jewish community take a similar historical approach for obvious political reasons. Over sixty years after the Holocaust, myths prevail over scholarship.

Most Greek politicians are complicit, failing to take anti-Semitism seriously as a local problem. With the admirable exception of former conservative prime minister Constantine Mitsotakis, who has vigorously condemned the arson attacks, Greek politicians have responded lethargically to the latest incidents. This is despite the tremendous and commendable efforts of such organizations of the American Jewish Committee (AJC), which has sought to educate Greek opinion leaders. The AJC's efforts have convinced some Greek politicians that their country is diminished by ignoring anti-Semitism. Unfortunately, too many still regard anti-Semitism as a public relations issue that affects Greece's image abroad, rather a moral question bearing upon its social sanity at home.

Very occasionally, some principled citizens express their disgust, but national figures generally do not bother to support these small local initiatives. In December 2009 hundreds of non-Jews in Ionnina formed a human chain around the Jewish cemetery there to protest its repeated desecration. In Salonika a few young historians have begun to ask questions about the massive theft of Jewish property during the war.

What these handfuls of activists have understood is that anti-Semitism can be as harmful to non-Jews as to Jews. Only a handful of Jews remain in Chania and Ioannina. These are places more of Jewish memory than of community—over 90% of Chania and Ioannina's Jews were murdered during the Holocaust. The non-Jews in these towns now have to live with the lingering hate and immoral ambivalence that over sixty years ago allowed so many Greek Jews to be taken away to their deaths.

Mr. Apostolou is writing a history of collaboration during the Holocaust in Greece.


Bravo Andrew