Gjorgje Ivanov

[Soldier of Macedon]

Not making excuses for him, but do you think he would even have the support of the armed forces?

I understand the sentiment some have for him given the many positive statements regarding Macedonia’s history and identity. Despite myself, I too share some of that sentiment. But what good is touting oneself as the supreme commander if you fail to meet your single most important obligation in the most pivotal moment of your presidency? I don’t know if he has the support of the armed forces. I suspect there are at least some key figures that still care about Macedonia and are prepared to defend their nation. But he hasn’t even hinted at playing that card as a deterrent. Not now. Not earlier.

Sekerinska runs the budget and finances of the armed forces, which ultimately means she pays their wages and in the last 12 months has replaced a number of Generals with their own people as well as quite a few others in positions of authority, to limit Ivanov's actual ability to do much with the armed forces.

As the president, his orders would supersede hers, wouldn't they? Or is the title of "supreme commander" nominal and absolutely useless?

[Rogi]

As in most things, whoever controls the money, has the real power.

[Soldier of Macedon]

I was asking about what the laws state. If his title as supreme commander is useless, then he shouldn't flaunt it and give false hope to his people. If it does hold weight, then refusing an order may be considered treasonous.

[Gocka]

Most of the governments actions as of late can easily be deemed as treasonous. Law and an normality in that shit hole are long gone.

By law Ivanov should have supreme command, but I think Rogi is right, soldiers in ROM are firmly day job type of soldiers and who ever signs the checks probably has the most influence.

refusing an order may be considered treasonous.

I haven't fully figured out Ivanov, and I am also not yet willing to praise him. Saying nice things and doing the right things are very different matters. He has said many things but if you look at this actions, they are passive at best.

Lets not forget he signed the Bulgarian friendship treaty which is already causing just as much damage to our identity as the Prespa agreement. Yes it is less official than the Prespa agreement in respect to our obligations or in codification by law, but the types of concessions the Bulgarians are extracting from us through it are just as bad as anything the Greeks are demanding, yet Ivanov has been silent on those matters.

The position of President is highly ceremonial in Modern times EXCEPT in moments like we find ourselves in now. When the country is running normally the president has little if anything to do, but when the country is in danger the president is intentionally the ultimate backstop. It is his sworn duty to protect the integrity of his republic. On that front he has utterly failed. He should have been proactive from the begging, having the army at his ready. Not waiting for Zaev to exert total control over every institution and then just make little speeches.

This is me being a little hard on him but he is President after all, and if you want the tittle then your duty is to your people and your country.

We knock the Macedonian people all the time for talking shit but not doing anything. I am not ready to make an exception for someone as powerful as the President.

His legacy will be that he never did anything to prevent the death of his nation and his identity.

[Risto the Great]

When back in 2017, I signed the Law on Ratification of the Agreement on friendship, good neighborly relations and cooperation with the Republic of Bulgaria, I pointed out a very important thing. The Agreement speaks about a shared history of the two states and their peoples. That shared history refers to the period since the recognition of the Republic of Macedonia by the Republic of Bulgaria, i.e. since 1992. This is the true historical framework of the agreement which does not focus on the past, but rather on the future. Instead, it became subject to free interpretation due to which the Republic of Macedonia has been pushed into a labyrinth that will be very difficult to exit. Now Sofia is announcing an annex to the agreement.

This wasn't thunderous praise for the Bulgarian friendship treaty.

Of course, having only briefly read the treaty with Bulgaria, I didn't have the impression it related to a common history since (ONLY) 1992. I need to look again. But notwithstanding this, I was happy to see him censure the treaty.

But he hasn’t even hinted at playing that card as a deterrent.

I think the following statements gave some hints:

Before anyone thinks that this will be my final address

He mentioned he was supreme commander of the army 4 times in that speech.

They were hints!

Now, whether he has effective command will be a measure of how far down the hole of despair Macedonia has gone. I believe he has no effective control but will (at some point in the future) make the necessary call to mobilise the army It will be a ceremonial gesture and then Macedonia will disappear with a final and underwhelming whimper. The death by a thousand cuts from a thousand broken plates.

From our perspective, his orders to the army would be appropriate and from the world leader's perspective, he would be deemed a rogue politician probably under the influence of the "Russkies".

Has he been effective to date? No. (Other than his vetoes)
Is he the conscience of Macedonia? Yes.

I think Macedonian history should be kind to him for his declarations in the UN and this recent speech. I hope he does more to be remembered favourably for.

[Risto the Great]

If it does hold weight, then refusing an order may be considered treasonous.

Ajde be. The rest of the world disagrees with his view and RoMacedonia is a corrupt whore with no effective judiciary. How would he enforce the treason?

[Risto the Great]

I am yet to be convinced of the will of the Macedonian people.
My gut feeling based upon sentiments expressed by many recent immigrants from RoMacedonia is that they "know who they are" and nobody can take that away from them. Which implies everybody can take that away from them and they allow it.

Therefore Ivanov is merely impeding their perceived ability to progress.

[Risto the Great]

Soooooo ..... where is he?
An opportunity for true leadership squandered.

[Pelagonija]

We are talking about a country where the law is made up by the the lunatics as they go. Take the Alb language law which was voted in by a simple majority and signed off by Talat? what happened to the Badinter principle? 2/3 requirement? Geez I wonder what would happen if VMRO has a 61 majority after the next election and revokes the above law if they follow the same logic.. but they are pussys like all North Macedonians.

George would be wise to stay out of it, keep his family safe.

[Risto the Great]

He has failed his duty.

[Tomche Makedonche]

Soooooo ..... where is he?
An opportunity for true leadership squandered.

He made another speech. He likes making speeches. Apparently that’s all the role of the President is required to do.

[Risto the Great]

https://www.mkd.mk/makedonija/politika/ivanov-go-vidovme-vistinskoto-lice-na-koalicijata-sdsm-i-dui-kje-se-javi-li

Ivanov: We saw the true face of the SDSM and DUI coalition, will the international community

Late last night we had the opportunity to see the true face of the government coalition of SDSM and DUI, which considers itself pro-European, President Gjorge Ivanov reacts after the Law on Languages and the ratification of the Prespa Treaty in the Official Gazette.

"The publication of the Law on the Use of Languages and the Law on Ratification of the Prespa Accord in the Official Gazette without the signature of the decree of the President of the Republic of Macedonia are unconstitutional.

By submitting these two laws in the Official Gazette, Article 75 of the Constitution of the Republic of Macedonia has been violated, while the publication of laws has been done illegally and is the basis for criminal prosecution.

This is a moment to show whether there is a Constitutional Court in the Republic of Macedonia, whether the prosecution operates, whether there is an independent judiciary and whether there is a rule of law, "Ivanov said in a written statement to the media.

He adds that "he wondered if senior international officials who support this government coalition will come forward and support this way of passing laws and whether they will support these precedents, which bear unnoticed consequences and damage law and the rule of law and whether such precedents apply in their own countries. "

The correct response is the initiate the court processes (and the army for that matter), delete the criminal laws and seize control of the State until a new democratic election is held.

Thailand is only now (in March) about to have a democratic election after 5 years of rule by the military junta. Their economy has only improved since the coup.

[Pelagonija]

https://www.mkd.mk/makedonija/politi...kje-se-javi-li

Ivanov: We saw the true face of the SDSM and DUI coalition, will the international community



The correct response is the initiate the court processes (and the army for that matter), delete the criminal laws and seize control of the State until a new democratic election is held.

Thailand is only now (in March) about to have a democratic election after 5 years of rule by the military junta. Their economy has only improved since the coup.

Sorry mate, which army which police?, it’s all KLA.

[Gocka]

I expect him to do more but at the same time I am a realist and I know there is not much he can do.

The president is only powerful if the people empower him, without shear numbers backing him, he has no real power.

What can he do apart from invoking the army. Its highly questionable if he even has the respect and command over the army. They may be just as likely to overthrow him as they are Zaev.

The president needs to have the people on his side in order to start taking unilateral actions against Zaev. That is probably why he keeps giving speeches, to motivate and get something going on the streets.

If I had his ear, I would advise him to throw political correctness and decorum out the window and give a speech that really talks to the people. I would tell him to bluntly and directly tell the people that what is happening to Macedonia is treason and that the people have his backing to forcefully overthrow Zaev and his party from power. I would tell him to say in plain language, get your pipes and sticks and hit the streets.

He is too philosophical for my taste. In these time what we need is for someone to TELL people what to do not theorize about the legality or fairness of it all.

DO IT IVANOV, TELL PEOPLE TO HIT THE STREETS!

[Phoenix]

I expect him to do more but at the same time I am a realist and I know there is not much he can do.

The president is only powerful if the people empower him, without shear numbers backing him, he has no real power.

What can he do apart from invoking the army. Its highly questionable if he even has the respect and command over the army. They may be just as likely to overthrow him as they are Zaev.

The president needs to have the people on his side in order to start taking unilateral actions against Zaev. That is probably why he keeps giving speeches, to motivate and get something going on the streets.

If I had his ear, I would advise him to throw political correctness and decorum out the window and give a speech that really talks to the people. I would tell him to bluntly and directly tell the people that what is happening to Macedonia is treason and that the people have his backing to forcefully overthrow Zaev and his party from power. I would tell him to say in plain language, get your pipes and sticks and hit the streets.

He is too philosophical for my taste. In these time what we need is for someone to TELL people what to do not theorize about the legality or fairness of it all.

DO IT IVANOV, TELL PEOPLE TO HIT THE STREETS!

I always thought his speeches had a subtle "call to arms" about them.
He has clearly spelt out the illegitimacy of everything Zaev has been doing since coming to power and yet the people can't be moved in significant number to protest.

Perhaps if 100K people hit the streets it would show Ivanov that the people are pissed off and it may be reason enough to call in the military...but then again, there's a safeguard thats been put in place by the US to minimise such an eventuality, that's why the shiptar political parties are free from the sort of investigation and coercion that has destroyed DPMNE, to unleash the shiptar dogs of war if Macedonia wanders from its predetermined path.