Gjorgje Ivanov

[Prolet]

Macedonian Activists from Australia meet President Ivanov

http://www.informator.ws/avstralija/14621-2010-06-16-16-14-08.html

[Makedonetz]

Prolet,

What was on their agenda for this meeting? over the name dispute?

[Prolet]

Makedonetz, They are Macedonian Representatives from Victorian-Macedonian Council.

I think they had talks over the name, im not too sure the reason they are there.

[Makedonetz]

Good to have reps from the Diaspora who can show them our concerns from away of Stari Kraj.

[Bill77]

Good to have reps from the Diaspora who can show them our concerns from away of Stari Kraj.

who elected them as our reps? What are some of there policies? What did they realy discuss? Do they
have any asociations with UMD or are they just wanna be's self apointed reps that claim just like UMD to be 'the' leaders of the Macedonian Diaspora?
Until we know some answers, you can't be to sure wherever its a good thing or not.


Prolet, tell Nikola at Imformator to pull his socks up and give us a story with that photo he has put up. Or tell him to change the name of his site 'Bez Imformatsia'

[Prolet]

Bill, Even President Goran Torbakov is there, im not sure what the go is from what i know this organization has nothing to do with the UMD.

That delegation is from the Victorian Macedonian Council they only represent the Macedonian in the Australian State of Victoria.

[Prolet]

Here is an interview with Goran Torbakov.

http://sitel.com.mk/video/makedonija/dijasporata-zadovolna-od-moznosta-da-uchestvuva-na-slednite-izbori

[Warrior]

who elected them as our reps? What are some of there policies? What did they realy discuss? Do they
have any asociations with UMD or are they just wanna be's self apointed reps that claim just like UMD to be 'the' leaders of the Macedonian Diaspora?
Until we know some answers, you can't be to sure wherever its a good thing or not.


Prolet, tell Nikola at Imformator to pull his socks up and give us a story with that photo he has put up. Or tell him to change the name of his site 'Bez Imformatsia'

These guys are extremely close to the UMD. I can not say too much because of family r'ships, but i can say that Meto did a speech at last forum organised by the council and one of the people in the photo did travel to a UMD conference last year. But i must admit he is a hard core patriot and i am not sure what are his connections to UMD. He would bleed for Macedonia. Unfortunately i cant say anymore than that...I think i know why they visted the government as well and why they are in Macedonia now....

[Prolet]

Warrior, Who is a hard core patriot??

I agree that alot of the people involved in the Macedonian Victorian Committe are good and have big hearts, they are forming closer ties with the Government and its looking good so far. We need to have the Government and these groups in the Diaspora working together for our cause.

Warrior, Like it or not every organization needs to work with eachother, Metodija Koloski was in Melbourne at the time and he was invited to their event, it would have been disrespectful not to invite him while he was on tour.

They are in Macedonia to form closer ties with the Government, its about time the Diaspora became on the agenda.

[indigen]

...But i must admit he is a hard core patriot and....He would bleed for Macedonia.....

I am not saying anything against the said person but the I would like to point out that "Bleeding for Macedonia" is not necessarily a sign of being a (pro) MACEDONIAN patriot, IMHO! As we all know, BULGARS, GREEKS, SERBS and GHEGS have been prepared to "BLEED for MACEDONIA" on quite a few times in the past 100 years or more and that certainly does not make them MACEDONIAN PATRIOTS! In a slight variation, Vancho Mihalov's VRHOVIST VMRO (ideological idol of MPO and LG, Boshkovski, and a significant number of other "VMRO-Ovci") was also prepared to (and in fact did) "bleed for Macedonia" but how Macedonian was its ultimate agenda?

Personally, I would like to see more Macedonians being prepared to "bleed for the Cause of the Macedonian Nation", a predefined cause that narrows the scope for ambiguity and hidden political agendas of infiltrators and turncoats.

[Pelister]

Warrior, Who is a hard core patriot??

I agree that alot of the people involved in the Macedonian Victorian Committe are good and have big hearts, they are forming closer ties with the Government and its looking good so far. We need to have the Government and these groups in the Diaspora working together for our cause.

Warrior, Like it or not every organization needs to work with eachother, Metodija Koloski was in Melbourne at the time and he was invited to their event, it would have been disrespectful not to invite him while he was on tour.

They are in Macedonia to form closer ties with the Government, its about time the Diaspora became on the agenda.

Yes, but Meto Koloski had been calling for a name change.

Why would any self-respecting Macedonian invite someone like that to a meeting? I think that the slick bullshit has alot of people fooled.

[Rogi]

Warrior, I think your assessment of "extremely close" is incorrect.

If you had been talking instead about closeness with the MCCV, VMRO-DPMNE Australia or the Macedonian Film Festival in Melbourne (on that note, everybody better keep late October free), then you'd be correct.

[Warrior]

Did one of the guys in the photo entertain Meto whilst in Melbourne? And i mean taking him sighseeting etc.
Did the people in the photo along with Meto went to Canberra?
Did the people in the photo attend the UMD dinner at Sheldon?
Did one of the people in the photo travel to the US last year to be at the UMD conference?
Was Meto invited to the concil meeting? Was Meto given heaps of praise at that meeting?

Once you answer the above, then we can basically evaluate if they are extremely close or not? Maybe i should have said, they "were" close, as i am not exactly sure of their views in the last couple of months.

As I said i have lot of time away from the politics for the couple of the people in the photo and I know they will not do anything to harm the nations integrity, although they are caught up in a situation that they need to support certain groups. We know UMD is close to the Maco government and you know there is a connection between the Maco government and the people in the photo and i dont mean only on official duties.....

The Macedonians in Victoria are better off having such leaders than what we had in the past, and i am sure they will come good in the future.....

[Prolet]

Warrior, What are you suppose to do to a guest? Ljubo Georgievski and Sestra Ljube were taken sight seeing too.

There is no reason why the UMD cannot be reformed, we can always disagree on some things but come on here its not like Meto is an enemy of our people. Give the guy some respect, he was a guest in Australia so naturally all organizations needed to be with him, show him around, he met alot of people and so forth.

Yes, but Meto Koloski had been calling for a name change.

Pelister, Havnt you been listening to Mane Jakovleski's speeches? Nikola Gruevski will not change our name, we've held on for so long now under extreme pressure why should we give up? Nema menvanje na imeto!!

The fact that 130 countries have recognized our name only gives us more strength to defend our name.

[Rogi]

Warrior, much of the things you stated, are irrelevant in the context you are suggesting.

The three people in the photo are all on the Macedonian Community Council executive.

It would be improper for anyone who serves on the executive of any relatively major organisation, not to show the courtesy and etiquette you described above, to the President of another relatively major diaspora organisation - Unless of course, if they are on bad terms.

That is part of the idea behind the ongoing professionalisation of our Diaspora groups.

Just about every single organisation in the Diaspora has some connection to the Government, in fact it is required, in order to voice their concerns and/or requests to the Government. This does not suggest that the groups are intertwined in any way and does not provide any indication of any interactivity between the Diaspora groups.

Just a few months ago all of the people mentioned and many others from across Australia, from various different organisations and groups, met in Melbourne for a National Political Conference organised by the AMHRC.

Does this now mean every group and every attendee is 'extremely close'?

Although it would be highly beneficial if that were the case, I am certain it is not.


As a side note, please bear in mind that 1) UMD does not have a huge profile in Australia and 2) outside of the MacedonianTruth and Maknews forums, the issues that have been raised about certain UMD statements, are not widely known.

In fact, not much is known about UMD among the Macedonian community in Australia, nor among many of the past and present activists in the community; even less was known prior to the speaking tour of UMD's President.


Honestly, I have been taken aback a little by this subtle attempt at tarnishing the good reputations of Macedonians, or at least my good friend who you are referring to but refrain from naming, by manufacturing some 'extremely close' connection to a brand that has an already tarnished name on this forum.