United Macedonia Diaspora

[Prolet]

does it matter? im from the united kingdom of macedonia.

Hell yes, if you want to get into debates with other users then surly they have the right where you come from.

Phoenix, What about the UMD bonding with MPO?? This is the most warring part actually i dont trust MPO one bit.

He made it clear that in his and their (US) view Macedonia is and should be a multi-ethnic country of its' citizens, and forget about being the country of the Macedonian people. Or words to that effect.

Rogi, Which country apart from Greece and Bulgaria is not multiethnic?? USA have over 100 ethnic minorities, we have far less then that even if you count all the Gjupci. US Ambassador Reeker said that USA is Macedonia's best friend, why would he say that if it wasnt true?? If what you state is true (That America is no friend to us) then its an alarming statement thats for sure.

[Risto the Great]

RTG what are you on about? According to my observations, and my conversations with both Rogi and Vangelovski they are not similar at all.

You are the one who wants to know about the balance of UMD, so tell me about your current Aussie UMD representatives, don't you know them? Have you talked to them? They are YOUR representatives I would expect you to know them or at least have heard of them... especially if you are so concerned about UMD.

I don't care how long Vangelovski has been doing anything, just like you say transparency is the key, and Vangelovski is as transparent as a rock. He claims to know the secret agendas of UMD, yet he claims he left UMD before the bylaws were approved, and then Rogi states that he left March 14, 2008, while the bylaws were approved February 16, 2008. He tried to rile up the forum about UMD elections, when it clearly states in the bylaws that board members serve 3 year terms. Why is he intentionally trying to create issues with UMD?

Buktop, I can only assume Rogi and Vangelovski represented one end of the scale within UMD. And others still on the board represent the other end of the scale. Call me crazy but I would suggest the scale is irrelevant and that whatever Meto wants Meto gets in the UMD.

Your fact finding mission in relation to the By Laws date really is of no interest to me. I have not seen them, have you? If I was getting increasingly disillusioned with an organisation I was a member of, do you think I would care what plans they had for the future? I am not sure how that helps to explain the concerns many Macedonians have with the UMD and their suggestion that they represent the Macedonian Diaspora.

[Jankovska]

No name change, no name change, no name change. Full stop. No prefixes, nothing. The name is Republic of Macedonia and will stay Republic of Macedonia. Nothing more. everyone must agree

YOu can always argue with me TK I am not admin

[Rogi]

I don't think there's anything wrong with the By-Laws. Sure elections are needed, but UMD is young and you need to establish and strengthen an organisation first.

Otherwise, 200 Greeks could have taken out a UMD membership, nominated 5 of themselves and voted all 5 onto the Board, effectively hijacking the organisation. Or VMRO or SDSM could do the same, etc.

You need some time to establish and weed out these types of problems.


I think the only real concern was how each 'office' would function. Presently, it seems head office in Washington runs everything including the membership and the budgets. I think the idea behind this was to prevent a 'chapter-like' structure like the MPO has, which has some chapters pro-Macedonian some pro-Bulgarian and it is all over the place - though, truth be told I don't know all that much about the MPO, to me they're the Bulgarian equivalent of the Pan Macedonian Assoc. But the centralised structure, run out of Washington is difficult to maintain too and quite restrictive, particularly when different countries function differently and particularly when there may be different leanings, whether that be ideological or methodical or strategic. It's almost similar to the Church dispute.

[Prolet]

Jankovska, All wars are bad however you are barking up the wrong tree here, the Croats where bombed from everywhere and they where invaded they did what any normal country would do when its attacked and invaded, the war crimes you suggest occurred on Bosnian Territory the only war crime that was committed from the Croatian side was from Operation Oluja where the Serbs where kicked out of Knin and Generals and Commanders have gone to Hague for it. Do you know that a Macedonian general from Croatia is in Hague?? Zlatko Aleksovski i think his name is.

[TajnataKniga]

Buptop, were you part of moyana then? also can you tell us about moyana, i cant find anything on the web about them and what they do.

this article talks about the framework agreement or pre-agreement time.

http://maknews.com/html/articles/koloski/moyana.html

Macedonian Orthodox Youth Association of North America

URL: www.moyana.org

Metodija A. Koloski

As an American citizen of Macedonian descent, I want to express my heartfelt concern for the Macedonian people who are staring in the face of mass oppression as a result of bias in the world media. I would like to share what I believe to be the truth surrounding the Macedonian conflict and the world mass media's response to the current crisis. The Macedonians are fighting a formidable enemy who maintains a significant stake in the world mass media, resulting in prejudicial media coverage of the events that are unfolding. The truth about the Macedonian people and their noble struggle to preserve Macedonia as a democratic and peaceful state has not only been overshadowed, but also blatantly misrepresented.

Out of all the countries that emerged from the former unified nation of Yugoslavia, Macedonia was the only country that maintained peace for the past 10 years. Now that peace is being destroyed by the attacks of the Kosovar Albanian terrorists in their pursuit of creating a "Greater Albania." The Kosovar Albanian terrorists are trying to rip peace and democracy apart in Macedonia in their vain pursuit of aggrandizement and are killing innocent civilians in Macedonia, Christian and Muslim alike. The Kosovar Albanian terrorists are attacking the very people who opened not only the Macedonian border, but also their hearts to save Kosovar lives just 2 years ago. The Macedonian people acted in good faith in order to save their fellow man and this humane gesture is being returned with gunfire. This is the side of the story you do not see represented by the media.

The international community must know that Macedonia is a peaceful democracy, that all its citizens are treated as first class people, that all its minorities possess rights that are protected per the standards of the United Nations, that in Macedonia, all its minorities can elect their own representatives to any position in government, that in Macedonia, the minorities have rights to their own schools and that in Macedonia minorities are represented in the ruling coalition government. They must know that in Macedonia any citizen regardless of ethnicity can run for President and they have, and that in Macedonia the Macedonian people deserve the right to LIVE IN A COUNTRY FREE OF TERRORISM!

I would like to ask the Kosovar Albanian terrorists how can they complain about the alleged lack of rights given to their kin in Macedonia while at the same time they deny the most basic rights to the Macedonians living in Albania? How can such injustice be tolerated in this modern era?

World Leaders and Media, I beg of you to open your eyes to the real cause of the crisis in Macedonia. This is not a war for civil rights-this is an act of aggression based purely on Kosovar greed for additional territory! The media and the world leaders have all ignored the plans of many Albanian terrorists to form a "GREATER ALBANIA" that strips beautiful and proud countries of their land. Just two years ago the Macedonian community opened her arms to all refugees. We sheltered the unsheltered, we fed the starving and we gave water to the thirsty. Now these refugees call themselves rebels and return a bullet to our people instead of bread! Now they are not refugees they are terrorists! How can you, President Bush, and all world leaders ask our people to sit at a table and give away our culture and our land? The Macedonian government will not give up an inch of land to this terrorist invasion and honestly, should they? I ask the Proud Americans, would America do so? Let us imagine that there is a foreign country connected to the state of California and this country decides to invade the California border hoping to gain land and improve their economic condition through theft. Would our government ask to sit at a table and speak to the leaders of this terrorist organization? Or would our great, powerful military be dispatched to protect our borders? The answer is clear, so how can the world and how can the USA demand the Macedonian government do what they themselves would not? Let me be clear where my heart and head is today. I am a proud American who is extremely proud of his Macedonian heritage. America has given all of us opportunities in life we might not have had in other places in the world. Why not encourage the democratic Macedonian people to share our dream and not sentence them to lives of oppression and bloodshed?

I am proud to say I would die before I let the American and Macedonian flags fall to the ground! To this end Mr. President Bush, World Leaders, and Media, I write this appeal, give the Macedonian people and their homeland the respect they deserve. Support peace in Macedonia, support freedom and liberty across this globe! Peace and Democracy must prevail in Macedonia, and it will!

Regards,

Metodija A. Koloski
New Jersey, USA

[Jankovska]

Jankovska, All wars are bad however you are barking up the wrong tree here, the Croats where bombed from everywhere and they where invaded they did what any normal country would do when its attacked and invaded, the war crimes you suggest occurred on Bosnian Territory the only war crime that was committed from the Croatian side was from Operation Oluja where the Serbs where kicked out of Knin and Generals and Commanders have gone to Hague for it. Do you know that a Macedonian general from Croatia is in Hague?? Zlatko Aleksovski i think his name is.

Are you telling me that is the only nasty unhuman thing they croats did? Omg Prolet you jjust refuse to see sense

[Spartan]

If you can't understand that, you are stupid.

Risto my good man, are you sure you dont have any Spartan in you?
Some of your statements are very laconic of late

sorry to go offtopic

[Risto the Great]

Risto my good man, are you sure you dont have any Spartan in you?
Some of your statements are very laconic of late

sorry to go offtopic

Well, you picked it.
Last night I had a "Spartiatiki Skara" at a Greek restaurant. Lots of meat .. must have got my blood pressure going. So, yes ... I had some Spartan in me.

[Vangelovski]

Charlatan,

Its not a matter of just reading the constitution - one needs to have at least a basic understanding of constitutional theory, republicanism and a number of other key concepts. Then you can read the constitution and interpret it coherently.

Charlatan, what you are asking me and the readers of this thread is to accept your incoherrent ramblings over the well-reasoned and time-tested arguments (some of which I posted here for you) of the founding fathers, former Presidents and Congressmen, Supreme Court Judges, political philosophers and historians.

It seems that you're more interested (as usual) in perpetuating the moral and intellectual corruption of Macedonian vassal politicians rather than actually learning something and adjusting your thinking accordingly.

As discussed earlier, I would strongly recommend that you take your theories to a REAL law professor or a political philosopy professor and have them tested.

Rogi, I wouldn't put too much faith in Macedonian "experts". I've seen what the tertiary education system is like there. If you are genuinely interested, I'd advise you to do some reasearch on "constitutionalism", "republicanism" and "limited government". A good place to start is of course a political philosophy book that takes the development of these concepts from Plato to the modern era. However, its also very good to read up on the US founding fathers - they were the first to establish a modern republic and 'limited government' and the US is the oldest republic in existence today.

[Vangelovski]

Charlatan,

Rogi and I know each other personally and we both have publically stated that our thinking, if not 100% exact, is similar enough that we can easily work together (and criticise each other) without any problems.

But again, you're proving to be the Charlatan that you are and pretending to know more than you do.

I'll take Rogi's word for it that I resigned on that date (I trust him and I've never had reason not to). But as Rogi pointed out, I had issues with UMD for at least a year or more beforehand. With the by-laws (I think their drafting starting many months before), I was opposing Washington's power grab over the organisation (and effectively the Board). By the time they were adopted, I had effectively stopped participating in UMD, though (as Rogi has pointed out), my official resignation hadn't been emailed until March.

As for transparancy, Charlatan, I'm a private individual, UMD is a legally registered organisation. See the difference? Even so, I've made public much more than the UMD.

Charlatan, my question now is - who is the puppet and who is the puppeteer between you and Meto?

P.S. Have you left UMD completely or are you still and ordinary member?

[Vangelovski]

Buktop, I can assure you that the Meeting in Canberra/Queanbeyan will be thoroughly recorded.

[TrueMacedonian]

UMD will there be any special guests attending this tour along with Meto?

[Warrior]

Hell yes, if you want to get into debates with other users then surly they have the right where you come from.

Phoenix, What about the UMD bonding with MPO?? This is the most warring part actually i dont trust MPO one bit.



Rogi, Which country apart from Greece and Bulgaria is not multiethnic?? USA have over 100 ethnic minorities, we have far less then that even if you count all the Gjupci. US Ambassador Reeker said that USA is Macedonia's best friend, why would he say that if it wasnt true?? If what you state is true (That America is no friend to us) then its an alarming statement thats for sure.

If you believe politicians and government administrators then you are gulliable. At post graduate school they quite speifically teach you that each article or media comment should be scrutinized and analyzed before you make your opinion and wheher it has some truth or ethics behind it.

People need to wake up from their "wet" dreams if they think that America is a friend of Maco. USA has only friends with benefits and then it disposes them!!! What has America done to suggest that they are friends of Maco?? It has recognised Maco so their military personnel can use the roads leading to Maco and within Maco and in return Macedonia is their lap dog by taking all the crap from Kosovo. Also we are the laughing stock of having troops fighting US wars. That is not a friend, which also encourages you to change the constitution and advises you that staying in negotiations that will compromise your name is a good idea. Also the Yanks can do as the please in Macedonia, just have a look at their embassy in Skopje. After all that pleasing, we still can not go and be their guests in their made up NATO organisation. Does anyone really thing that Greece would have made a veto if USA wanted us there!! Its their organisation and they can choose and pick as they please, but when it comes to less important coutries such as Macedonia, well they need to go through the process where Greece is our judge. Do you have such friends??? The sooner Macedonia and their cronies distance themselves from friends like America the better. At the same time we dont need to become enemies either. When it comes to the crunch the Yanks will always side with the Albanians and Greeks!!! Perfect example is Georgia, US used them and abused and when it came to the crunch they stood back whilst Russia smashed Georgia to pieces. If anyone thinks anything else they have semki for brains!!!

[Buktop]

Buptop, were you part of moyana then? also can you tell us about moyana, i cant find anything on the web about them and what they do.

MOYANA or the Macedonian Orthodox Youth Association of North America as far as I am aware it has been disbanded. I was a part of MOYANA almost 6 years ago. MOYANA focused on involving Macedonian youth and educating them in Macedonian affairs.