United Macedonia Diaspora

[Phoenix]

You donīt need the greeks,bulgarians,serbians or albanians to destroy you. You are doing a great job of that yourselfs.
Sad to see. Both here and on Maknews.

If this makes UMD more accountable to the feelings of the diaspora even by a 1% improvement it will have been worth it...

I just don't think you understand or have an appreciation of the enormity of what's at stake here

[Vangelovski]

Phoenix,

That is a typical UMD tactic when questioned over its stance - play the victim.

[Bij]

there's a saying about ohrigjani in bitola. 'ohrigjani se tupi kako traktori'. sadly, the generalisation is usually true. i know of one or two exceptions though ;-)

jankovska, what do you mean by australia has a direct line to skopje? maybe in the days of JAT, but not in a long time have we had a direct flight to macedonia or even remotely close.

my main problem with ohrid is its full of srbi.. who will come to macedonia and speak serbian everywhere and have serbian spoken to them everywhere... and then macedonians go to serbia and speak serbian. HELLO, WHAT'S WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE?

[Jankovska]

there's a saying about ohrigjani in bitola. 'ohrigjani se tupi kako traktori'. sadly, the generalisation is usually true. i know of one or two exceptions though ;-)

jankovska, what do you mean by australia has a direct line to skopje? maybe in the days of JAT, but not in a long time have we had a direct flight to macedonia or even remotely close.

my main problem with ohrid is its full of srbi.. who will come to macedonia and speak serbian everywhere and have serbian spoken to them everywhere... and then macedonians go to serbia and speak serbian. HELLO, WHAT'S WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE?

Sorry Bij I meant from London while Skopje or Ohrid don't. To bring tourisam into the country you must have access to cheap and regular air traffic. without it it's not going to work.
Ohrid is beautiful but Ohrid is overpriced, hospitality is near to nothing, it's doesn't get cleaned properly and you get ripped off on every step. Don't think that people will just visit a place just because it's beautiful, it needs to be affordable. Ohrid is not to the standard to accomodate only the mega rich and it's overpriced for the normal mortal people. I am hoping Ohrigani learn fast because it will be devestating and it is not to use Ohrid's beauty to max. People will be getting out of macedonia this summer, Ohrid will be empty unless they decide to charge a resonable price for a glass of beer. i bet everyone will be in Bulgaria this summer and why not. It's nice, cheap and chearfull and Ģ50 return ticket. i could fly on a friday and return on a monday and still spend less than I would in London for a weekendSomething needs to be done about the tourisam in Macedonia, something serious and quick. It's not just Ohrid, Dojran and Prespa. Prespa hardly every gets mentioned, I wonder why?

[Jankovska]

Jankovska, You where the one who is so against Ohrid, who do you go there for the city or the people?? In Summer time, Ohridsko is full of Skopjani and Bitolchani. Biri kolku sakash

Oh great, Ohrigani, Skpopjani (isti kurac, razlicni dimenzii), haha baba taka vika.

[Phoenix]

Phoenix,

That is a typical UMD tactic when questioned over its stance - play the victim.

I had an issue with UMD's press releases, their failure in my opinion was that they often sounded as though they were representing American interests ahead of Macedonia's or that they used inappropriate language that lacked urgency or failed to convey the true feelings of the diaspora...

Others have raised UMD's ambiguity in specific statements, or a lack of strategy regarding their stand on Macedonian Government policies.

This debate is the sum of all of those different concerns, raised by various individuals, this has been perceived by UMD as an 'agenda'...

With so many concerns, UMD can't continue to bury their heads in the sand...

[Prolet]

Phoenix, Its not what people say its what they do, we heard how Sestra Ljube said that he was going to protect every Macedonian Citizen or what about when Vojvoda Ljubco said that he was go to Solun and put a Macedonian flag up on Beas Kule does this kind of talk satisfy our people or would we rather hear the real stuff and get the best we can get?? I honestly dont see know what people are expecting here, we have a fairly large diaspora that spends very very little, thats divided that wants so much yet offers very little and i mean very little its already been a failure that for 20 years we managed just one court rule in order to remove the Slav out of our language and we should be happy with that???

In 2001 we where at war and we couldnt manage to get $500,000 does anybody know how much a Chopper cost?? I heard the Skopsko and Bitolsko drushtvo raving on about how they managed to send $7000 to the Special Forces is this suppose to do anything for them?? They probably wont be able to cover the food costs with that money so no wonder Cacko will say that our people are even prepared to give $20 for the flag where is our leverage what leg do we have to stand on when we make such comments?? The Croats sold their cars and houses and sent millions for weapons to their Domovina this was also well documented by the then Croatian President Franjo Tudjman its why they have a country while we are still here bickering and moaning about who supports the Framework and Interim Agreements when in return we have nothing to offer any Macedonian in Macedonia be it Egejska or Pirinska this is reality and i think we should be concentrating more on what we can do and look at how our enemies are portraying us and how much they are spending to destroy us like the Greeks in the late 80s and early 90s if we want a say and if we want to criticize sure we can do that however we need to have something in our hands in order to do so otherwise its nothing more then just empty words.

[Pavel]

No one here said we should be happy with just one court victory. Don't put words in other people's mouths. It's about how some people can't admit they made a mistake and try to cover it up and how people from another forum/organisation were attacking the whole Australian Macedonian community. Now they are surprised people are annoyed.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Prolet, you're beginning to ramble on about things that aren't exactly relevant to the situation, as our issues differ to those of Croatia for example. The 2001 conflict in Macedonia was not the same as the Yugoslav Wars of the 90's.

Were there Croatian Diaspora groups calling for a compromise with the Serbs in the 90's, and if so, please show me evidence of it, and of the reaction to it by the Croatian Diaspora.

We are not 19th century peasants who have to blindly follow those claiming to be our 'leaders' or organisations that claim to work on our (Diaspora) behalf. This is not about prolonging divisions, or creating them, it is about addressing words and actions. And most importantly, taking responsibility for past errors, giving peace of mind to other Macedonians that such errors are acknowledged, explained, and assuring that they never happen again.

To lead, one must first know how to serve those they are leading.

[Prolet]

Whos putting words into other people's mouths?? Im not happy at all however im very grateful because 15 years ago we where in a terrible situation and the Greeks never believed that we would last this long without a name change, this is why there are tensions on their side now because we are finally starting to fight back and we are not bowing to their demands like the others did before.

[Prolet]

SOM, What do you think the Dayton Accord was?? The Croats lost alot actually they lost towns and villages to Serbs and Muslims in Bosnia, take Mostar for example which is the capital of Herzegovina they lost half of it (The Eastern Side) to the Muslims.

The Croatian Diaspora made Croatia what it is today thats reality, if it wasnt for the Croatian Diaspora the Serbs would have wiped out their country.

I only made the comparison with Croatia in terms of supporting an armed conflict for their motherland, how did we compare when we where attacked by the Albanian Terrorists in 2001?? How many people even went back to defend their country?? Not very many thats for sure.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Prolet, as I said before, your comparison is invalid.

During the 90's nearly the whole of Croatia was basically under attack, about half of Croatia was in the hands of Serbian forces, that was not the case in Macedonia. And now you're talking about Croats in Bosnia? Stick to one item at a time buddy, because I am sure if the Dayton Accord asked for the same rights to be given to Serbs in Croatia as that which is given to ethnic Albanians in Macedonia, the picture and reaction would be markedly different.

[Prolet]

SOM, Have you seen a Croatian Map from WW2?? It has all of Bosnia in it, you wont find a single Serb,Croat or Muslim happy with the Dayton Accord its no different to us.

Just for your info, 1/3 of Croatia and 2/3 of Bosnia where occupied by the Serbs.

Now i agree with you that the Croats where bombed from everywhere especially in Western Slavonija and especially in Vukovar where it was pretty much destroyed, we where very much threatened in in Kumanovo,Tetovo,Skopsko which are three big cities.

What about the Massacres in Karpalak and Vejce?? What about the Shootings at Tanushevci?? In Kumanovo they turned the water off, lets also not forget Ljubanci,Ljuboten,Arachinovo,Radusha,Shipkovica reservists where called and forces where mobilized.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Prolet, now you're talking about WWII, Bosnia and the Ustasha state?

Prolet, do you have some sort of difficulty with keeping your mind on one topic with relevance?

Prolet, like I said before, I am sure if the Dayton Accord asked for the same rights to be given to Serbs in Croatia as that which is given to ethnic Albanians in Macedonia, the picture and reaction would be markedly different.

Prolet, do you understand what I am writing to you?

Prolet....hey Prolet, Prolet?

Prolet?

[fatso]

Buktop has a right to express his opinion.

Excuse my ignorance, but what has the UMD done that has all of you riled up. Is it the ongoing negotiations ???