United Macedonia Diaspora

[UMDiaspora.org]

Comments

Hey don't get me wrong SoM, I have no problem with public debate, just dont think you are fucking entitled to a personal response by UMD.

Are you a member of UMD? If not, why do you think you are entitled to a response? They do not claim to represent all of us, they represent their members and future members.

I am sick and tired of reading through endless posts UMD did this, UMD didnt do that, FUCK, if you guys are so fed up with UMD do something about it, dont fucking cry about it on some forum and then expect something to be done about it. Join up, or attend their meetings and give your opinion. As of right now all you people are doing is GANG BASHING. And yes that is what it is called when a group of people get together and try to see who can hate the UMD the most.

If it is at all possible I would really like to know why 100% of UMD opposition is coming from Australia? I'm not saying all Australians hate UMD, but it seems that all or most opposition is coming from there.

Everyone who e-mails UMD is entitled to a response. Due to the amount of e-mail we get, UMD cannot respond to e-mails immediately but tries to respond as soon as possible.

UMD unpaid interns monitor all Macedonian forums and discussion groups and UMD's public relations team will make the decision whether or not to respond on a forum. UMD cannot respond to every single Forum question as UMD has a lot of work on its plate. We'll try our best but we cannot promise.

[UMDiaspora.org]

The title of this thread is quite misleading. Nobody is picking on UMD, but rather voicing their opinions. UMD Board Members will be visiting almost every community in the U.S., Australia, and Canada in 2010 to make public presentations, take questions, and provide answers. As the schedule becomes clear, it will be posted on the UMD website and all Macedonians and friends of Macedonia are invited to attend these public presentations.

UMD has made its positions quite clear over and over again. The United Macedonian Diaspora firmly rejects any efforts by persons or entities to rename the Republic of Macedonia. It is our view that the name of a nation state is an inextricable element of its sovereignty. UMD's official policy statement on the name and the genocide of Macedonians by Greece will come out in January 2010. Stay tuned.

No matter what people will find ways to manipulate UMD's words and statements. UMD understands this and accepts this. UMD will not sway away from its mission, objectives, and purpose, and will continue fighting for Macedonia and the Macedonian people.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Anyone in this thread who has asked questions of UMD and will not seek to attend even a single event where Meto will be present in Australia does not even deserve the right to discourse.

Not everybody can make it to his meetings and events, and I would be disappointed if such conditions now need to met in order to have a 'right to discourse' with Meto and/or the UMD. I trust the 3-4 posts they have just made weren't too painstaking.

I don't for a second believe that the UMD or Meto are anti-Macedonian, but I do believe some poor choice of actions and wording has landed them in this situation. Fear of misinterpretation arises from a message that is undefined and lacks clarity. And let's be honest here, there isn't much to misinterpret with the below clip from ZMR - Meto is clearly advocating for a name other than the Republic of Macedonia for (1) use in international organisations and (2) bilateral use with Greece. Which still leaves the (3) constitutional name for internal use, and for any other country that wishes to do the logical thing. Meto may or may not have intended for it to come out the way it did, but this is a public statement that requires an acceptance of error, not counter-arguments. Buktop, do you agree with this course of action, which would effectively leave Macedonia with three names? I am interested in how you would interpret the same clip.

YouTube - ZMR United Macedonian Diaspora - Macedonia Name

The one that Dimko has just posted has stronger language, this is good, but here is something that concerns me, which was said at the very beginning of the interview:

Obedineta Makedonska Diaspora imavme globalna konferencija vo juni, kai shto golem del, skoro site mislam podnesovme rezolucija, deka Obedineta Makedonska Diaspora ne prifakja promena na ustavnoto ime........

Duri sega cekaje da stignat do takva rezolucija? I ako e 'skoro' site a ne site, toa znaci deka ima clenoi vo organizacijata sho prifakjat promena na imeto, taka? Again, Buktop, I would appreciate your interpretation on this statement.

[UMDiaspora.org]

Not everybody can make it to his meetings and events, and I would be disappointed if such conditions now need to met in order to have a 'right to discourse' with Meto and/or the UMD. I trust the 3-4 posts they have just made weren't too painstaking.

I don't for a second believe that the UMD or Meto are anti-Macedonian, but I do believe some poor choice of actions and wording has landed them in this situation. Fear of misinterpretation arises from a message that is undefined and lacks clarity. And let's be honest here, there isn't much to misinterpret with the below clip from ZMR - Meto is clearly advocating for a name other than the Republic of Macedonia for (1) use in international organisations and (2) bilateral use with Greece. Which still leaves the (3) constitutional name for internal use, and for any other country that wishes to do the logical thing. Meto may or may not have intended for it to come out the way it did, but this is a public statement that requires an acceptance of error, not counter-arguments. Buktop, do you agree with this course of action, which would effectively leave Macedonia with three names? I am interested in how you would interpret the same clip.

YouTube - ZMR United Macedonian Diaspora - Macedonia Name

The one that Dimko has just posted has stronger language, this is good, but here is something that concerns me, which was said at the very beginning of the interview:

Duri sega cekaje da stignat do takva rezolucija? I ako e 'skoro' site a ne site, toa znaci deka ima clenoi vo organizacijata sho prifakjat promena na imeto, taka? Again, Buktop, I would appreciate your interpretation on this statement.

Rezolucijata bese izglasana od strana na Bord na Direktori na OMD. Rezolucijata reflektira soglasnost na mnozinstvoto clenstvo na OMD. Sigurno ima lujge koj mozebi ne bi se soglasile so OMD no rezolucijata e jasna. Linkot e: http://umdiaspora.org/content/view/418/1/

OMD ima na nekolku ja ima izjasnato stavot na organizacija kon imeto. Ova rezolucija ja donesena za vreme ne Globalnata Konferencija koj mnozinstvoto na Bord na Direktorite na OMD bea prisutni. Odluki takvi ne se nosat preku internet. OMD nema dilema okolu imeto. Makedonija e imeto na nasata tatkovina i ne privajkame pomena na imeto Makedonija.

[indigen]

Rezolucijata bese izglasana od strana na Bord na Direktori na OMD. Rezolucijata reflektira soglasnost na mnozinstvoto clenstvo na OMD. Sigurno ima lujge koj mozebi ne bi se soglasile so OMD no rezolucijata e jasna. Linkot e: http://umdiaspora.org/content/view/418/1/

OMD ima na nekolku ja ima izjasnato stavot na organizacija kon imeto. Ova rezolucija ja donesena za vreme ne Globalnata Konferencija koj mnozinstvoto na Bord na Direktorite na OMD bea prisutni. Odluki takvi ne se nosat preku internet. OMD nema dilema okolu imeto. Makedonija e imeto na nasata tatkovina i ne privajkame pomena na imeto Makedonija.

Се надевам дека ќе се поучите да делувате со поголема доза на внимание кога се однесувате на суштинските идеолошки прашања поврзани со македонските национали интереси.

Ви препорачувам да ги прочитате следниве редови и длабоко да размислите на темата поврзана со името на државата Македонија.

Тодор Петров:“...Името на државата е Македонија, а уставната референца е “Република”, барем додека ни е такво уставното уредување, и само тоа може да се менува, а не и името на државата, уште еднаш упатуваме јавен апел до Глигоров, во името на македонскиот народ и државата Македонија, во името на сите живи Македонци од сите меридијани на земјината топка, од името на сите мртви и умрени за Македонија, од пред Христос и по Христос, во името на сите можни Богови, веднаш писмено да го извести Генералниот секретар на ООН дека државата Македонија членувањето во ООН и во сите органи на ООН и меѓународни органи, организации и заедници го продолжува безусловно и веднаш со единственото име Македонија, пред кое МОЖЕ да се употребува и уставната референца “Република”...”

Todor Petrov: “... The name of the state is Macedonia, and the constitutional reference is “Republic”, at least until our constitutional arrangement is appropriate, and only this can be changed, and not the name of the state, once again we direct a public appeal to Gligorov, in the name of the Macedonian people and state of Macedonia, in the name of all living Macedonians in all meridians of the globe, on behalf of all the dead and fallen for Macedonia, before Christ and after Christ, in the name of all possible gods, to immediately in writing inform UN Secretary General that the state of Macedonia membership in the UN and all UN bodies and international bodies, organisations and communities is to continue unconditionally and immediately with only the name Macedonia, before which MAY also be used the constitutional reference “Republic”...”


29.10.2009 извор: СМК

Тодор Петров:”...Меѓународно име е државното име Македонија, а името на македонскиот народ и јазик се нераскинливо поврзани со името на државата Македонија. Секоја промена на државното име Македонија значи трајна промена на името на македонскиот народ и јазик, бидејќи по меѓународно право националноста како синоним за државјанство по автоматизам се определува од името на нацијата како синоним за држава...”

29/10/2009 source: WMC

Todor Petrov: “... International name is the state name Macedonia, and the name of the Macedonian people and language are inseparably linked with the name of the state of Macedonia. Any change of state name Macedonia means a permanent change in the name of the Macedonian people and language, because in international law nationality as synonym for citizenship automatically determines the name of the nation as a synonym for state ... “


Тодор Петров: ”...Државата Македонија, господине Глигоров, нема вековно уставно име “Република Македонија” бидејќи името на државата Македонија е постаро од Уставот на Република Македонија, иако денешните гео-политички граници на државата Македонија не се исти со етно-историските граници на Македонија од пред 10 август 1913-та година, а Вашиот 90 годишен живот како и сечиј друг е минорен дел од вековната историја на Македонија.


Todor Petrov: “... The state of Macedonia, Mr Gligorov, does not have a centuries-old constitutional name “Republic of Macedonia” as the name of the state of Macedonia is older than the Constitution of the Republic of Macedonia, although today’s geo-political boundaries of the state of Macedonia do not coincide with the ethnic and historical boundaries of Macedonia before August 10, 1913, and Your 90 year-old life, as that of everyone else, is but an insignificant part of the eternal history of Macedonia...”

[Prolet]

SOM now that we know that Metodija A Koloski will be in Australia for the Month of February next year will any of you take the time to meet up with him and present the views here in this forum and our Macedonian Community in General?

Prolet, excuse the action of my responding with a question to a question, but can you tell me what would be the difference if Meto was to give his answer to me in person as opposed to online?

Where did I make it perfectly clear Prolet? Stop exaggerating and making assumptions on behalf of other people.

SOM, This is what made me believe that, either way you make up your own mind its your choice.

What really puzzles me is who are these other people that i supposedly make assumptions on their behalf??

[Prolet]

Are you planing on meeting with Meto when he comes to Australia?

Are you planing on taking Paul/Pelister's statements at face value or are you planing on actually posing the questions to those who can answer them? You should take any and all statements on any internet forum with a grain of salt. But when you have the chance to answer your questions, specifically with the arrival of Meto in Australia, you should take it. Don't just pass it by, take the opportunity to answer your questions.

Buktop, Im not a representative of any political movement in Australia so a meeting behind closed doors is not on the agenda, however if i happen to be in the same place as Metodija then why not?? Personally i think every minute of Metodija's time should be spent on what more can be done for our diaspora i imagine that meetings with Australian MP's will take place aswell as representatives of leading political and human rights organizations.

Buktop, Its got nothing to do with me agreeing with Pelister its more to do with the fact that he had some concerns about where the UMD stood with our name issue and i believe it should be resolved instead of him being called every name under the sun and be seen as some sort of an enemy (He was called a Grkoman) and instead of resolving the issue properly it was turned into a slanging match in which all of the Macedonian in Australia were labeled as being anti-UMD and Maknews went even further with some of his attacks however i dont wish to mention them here on this forum.

[makedonche]

Umd

Will you state categorically and unequivocally that the name/dispute/ negotiations must cease immediatley?
Will you state that Macedonia must commence proceedings for redress at UN level to remove the illegally imposed FYR?

I await an answer to my two questions still, as far as I am concerned these questions remain unanswered.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Rezolucijata reflektira soglasnost na mnozinstvoto clenstvo na OMD. Sigurno ima lujge koj mozebi ne bi se soglasile so OMD no rezolucijata e jasna.

Ama megju toa, ima elementi, clenoi na OMD, sho prifakjat promena na imeto. Kako mozi toa to bidi? Kakvi clenoi na OMD se tie sho nema da mu preci ako se smeni imeto?

Ova rezolucija ja donesena za vreme ne Globalnata Konferencija koj mnozinstvoto na Bord na Direktorite na OMD bea prisutni.

Takva rezolucija trebase da se resi i dokazi pred 5 godini, koga se sozdade OMD, a ne sega pred 6 meseci.

Povtorvas deka OMD ne e za promena na imeto, dobro, jas mozam toa da go prifatam. Ama OMD gi podrzva govorite za imeto so Grcija. Znaime sho ne prifakjate, ama za kakvo resenije ste spremni da prifatite? Realistically, how would you like to see this ordeal with Greece end? I think it is a fair question.

[UMDiaspora.org]

Odgovor

Ama megju toa, ima elementi, clenoi na OMD, sho prifakjat promena na imeto. Kako mozi toa to bidi? Kakvi clenoi na OMD se tie sho nema da mu preci ako se smeni imeto?

Takva rezolucija trebase da se resi i dokazi pred 5 godini, koga se sozdade OMD, a ne sega pred 6 meseci.

Povtorvas deka OMD ne e za promena na imeto, dobro, jas mozam toa da go prifatam. Ama OMD gi podrzva govorite za imeto so Grcija. Znaime sho ne prifakjate, ama za kakvo resenije ste spremni da prifatite? Realistically, how would you like to see this ordeal with Greece end? I think it is a fair question.

SoM, nemozeme da ti odgovorime na prasanjeto pogore, oti neznaeme dali ima clenovi koj prifajkaat promena na imeto. Rekovme deka mozebi ima clenovi koj ne se soglasuvaat so kontektsot na rezolucijata izglasana vo juni 2009.

Gospodine, OMD izleze so peticija slicna na rezolucijata no mnogu po detalna vo Maj 2005, 7 meseci posle naseto osnovanje, pogledni: http://www.petitiononline.com/umd/petition.html Se sobrani povejkhe od 125,000 potpisi (koj 85,000 se online). Koj ima tolku golema poddrshka dobieno dosega? Vo juni 2009, bese prv pat za OMD Globalnata Konferencija i zatoa ova rezolucija se donese. Ali OMD sekoj pat vo nejzinite izjavi gi preneseuvase zborovite na rezolucijata.

Pogledni:

http://umdiaspora.org/content/view/172/51/

http://umdiaspora.org/content/view/273/51/

http://umdiaspora.org/content/view/314/51/

Koloski stated: “Under no circumstances will the Macedonians ever accept a change to the name of their homeland. The government in Athens cannot possibly succeed with this bitter campaign of deception.”

The purpose of the United Macedonian Diaspora is to address the interests and needs of Macedonians and Macedonian communities throughout the world. As such, UMD will not support anything less than the use of the constitutional name, Republic of Macedonia, as the country’s official name, for bilateral and international use. Moreover, we wish to express our regret and disappointment with some EU and NATO member states regarding their ongoing refusal to recognize the Republic of Macedonia by its constitutional name.

Vaseto prasanje ne e na mesto SoM, oti znaete sto e odgovorot i ako ne vie e seushte jasno eve vi pak odgovor. OMD ne gi poddrzuva pregovorite okolu razlikite na Grcija okolu imeto na nasata tatkovina Makedonija. OMD gleda deka pregovorite se realnost, sepak Makedonija e na pregovaruvacka masa i gledame da pomogneme vo sve sto mozeme na Makedonija. Zatoa OMD tri pati se ima sretnato so Ambasadorot Nimetz, koj dva pati MHRMI od Toronto bea zaedno so nas. I ednas otide so cela delegacija na 7 lujge vo Obedinetite Nacii da se sretnuva so razni Ambasadori od svetot, pomejgu niv Ruskiot i Meksickiot. OMD ima povikuvano na prekinuvanje na pregovorite, no za zal Makedonija seushte e na taa pregovaruvacka masa. OMD ima strategija i toa e da rabotime Makedonija da bide priznata od sto poveke drzavi vo svetot, da go educirame svetot okolu problemot na Grcija so Makedonija i Makedonskiot narod, i da im ovozmozime na Makedonskata vlada sto poveke poddrska od svetot. Ova se razbira e okolu imeto i chovekovite prava.

OMD ne e spremna da prifati nikakvo resenie osven Republika Makedonija. Toa e ime na nasata tatkovina. Za zal delovi na nasata celokupna tatkovina se naojgaat nadvor od Republika Makedonija, no toa e priznato kako realnost i OMD raboti da ovozmozi prava za site Makedonci koj zhiveat niz cela geografska Makedonija.

Makedonskiot narod izdrzale mnogu. Nasite dedovci ginea za nasata tatkovina (suverena, nezavisna Makedonija) toa e premnogu golema zrtva i nie ne smeeme nikogas da go zaboravime toa. Ke izdrzeme i ova, no samo so mudrost i borba za pravoto stom i sledi na nasiot narod i tatkovina.

Mislime deka premnogu vreme se gubi na forumi da se tvrdi stavot na OMD, koj e cist i jasen. Lujge ke pokusuvaat da gi manipuliraat zborovite na OMD no OMD seuste postoj, OMD nema izgubeno poddrska naprotiv poddrskata se zgolemi vo 2009 za OMD i samo ke se zgolemuvaa. Otkolku da gubite vreme na forumi javete se do vasiot pratenik vo Parlimentot vo Avstralija i prasajte go sto e negoviot stav okolu imeto na Makedonija i dali ne narekuva "the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia" ili Republic of Macedonia ili samo Macedonia. I potoa ve molime pisete tuka na forumot sto e negoviot stav i posle moze da diskutirame sto se slednite cekori ako ne priznava ili ako ne ne priznava.

[Soldier of Macedon]

As such, UMD will not support anything less than the use of the constitutional name, Republic of Macedonia, as the country’s official name, for bilateral and international use. Moreover, we wish to express our regret and disappointment with some EU and NATO member states regarding their ongoing refusal to recognize the Republic of Macedonia by its constitutional name.

These are the type of statements we need to see, followed up by the denounciation of the name negotiations with Greece. And they have to be consistent. We don't expect the UMD to behave like ultra-nationalists, but the message always needs to be powerful and consistent. The Macedonian government is involved in the name negotiations, not the UMD, that is why the latter should always reinforce the former of the diaspora's sentiments, and not accept the negotiations as a necessary reality.

The UMD should denounce the negotiations at every turn, and put pressure on the Macedonian government, on behalf of the Macedonian diaspora, to end the negotiations immediately and seek redress at the UN level to remove the illegally imposed FYR, as suggested earlier by Makedonche. The UMD should be providing assistance to the Macedonian government in terms of suggestions and plans for contingency after the name negotiations have been scrapped, and on how the Macedonian community across the world will bond and lock ranks for the struggle going forward. The longer we stay in these negotiations, the more credibility we give them. It's been almost 2 decades, enough is enough. As a member of the diaspora, that is my conviction, and I am sure most would agree.

[Prolet]

SOM, Did you listen to Gjorgje Ivanov's interview in A1?? This is what he said and he even mentioned Professor Igor Janev's proposal.

According to Ivanov, nie razgovarame ne pregovarame so imeto there is a big difference there.

Makedonskiot narod izdrzale mnogu. Nasite dedovci ginea za nasata tatkovina (suverena, nezavisna Makedonija) toa e premnogu golema zrtva i nie ne smeeme nikogas da go zaboravime toa. Ke izdrzeme i ova, no samo so mudrost i borba za pravoto stom i sledi na nasiot narod i tatkovina.

Cul Te Gospod, mi se svigja ovoj odgovor.

OMD ima strategija i toa e da rabotime Makedonija da bide priznata od sto poveke drzavi vo svetot, da go educirame svetot okolu problemot na Grcija so Makedonija i Makedonskiot narod, i da im ovozmozime na Makedonskata vlada sto poveke poddrska od svetot. Ova se razbira e okolu imeto i chovekovite prava.

UMD, Kakva strategija?? mene mi se svigja toa ali trebi vladata pojke da go turkat ova prasanje.

[Phoenix]

These are the type of statements we need to see, followed up by the denounciation of the name negotiations with Greece. And they have to be consistent. We don't expect the UMD to behave like ultra-nationalists, but the message always needs to be powerful and consistent. The Macedonian government is involved in the name negotiations, not the UMD, that is why the latter should always reinforce the former of the diaspora's sentiments, and not accept the negotiations as a necessary reality.

The UMD should denounce the negotiations at every turn, and put pressure on the Macedonian government, on behalf of the Macedonian diaspora, to end the negotiations immediately and seek redress at the UN level to remove the illegally imposed FYR, as suggested earlier by Makedonche. The UMD should be providing assistance to the Macedonian government in terms of suggestions and plans for contingency after the name negotiations have been scrapped, and on how the Macedonian community across the world will bond and lock ranks for the struggle going forward. The longer we stay in these negotiations, the more credibility we give them. It's been almost 2 decades, enough is enough. As a member of the diaspora, that is my conviction, and I am sure most would agree.

Spot on SoM...I agree as well.

UMD and every organization that claims to represent the diaspora needs to be a 'watchdog' that has Macedonia's best interests at heart...sometimes UMD acts as if America's or Europe's interests are the main priority

[UMDiaspora.org]

MK government

These are the type of statements we need to see, followed up by the denounciation of the name negotiations with Greece. And they have to be consistent. We don't expect the UMD to behave like ultra-nationalists, but the message always needs to be powerful and consistent. The Macedonian government is involved in the name negotiations, not the UMD, that is why the latter should always reinforce the former of the diaspora's sentiments, and not accept the negotiations as a necessary reality.

The UMD should denounce the negotiations at every turn, and put pressure on the Macedonian government, on behalf of the Macedonian diaspora, to end the negotiations immediately and seek redress at the UN level to remove the illegally imposed FYR, as suggested earlier by Makedonche. The UMD should be providing assistance to the Macedonian government in terms of suggestions and plans for contingency after the name negotiations have been scrapped, and on how the Macedonian community across the world will bond and lock ranks for the struggle going forward. The longer we stay in these negotiations, the more credibility we give them. It's been almost 2 decades, enough is enough. As a member of the diaspora, that is my conviction, and I am sure most would agree.

UMD informs Macedonian government officials of its positions at every opportunity. Macedonia needs to develop an exit strategy and we are here to help.

What Macedonia needs is unity, once we are united in and out of the country Macedonia will be able to succeed. Macedonia's name is not just the name of the 2.1 million who live inside the country but also it belongs to the estimated 2.4 million who live outside of the country and also the estimated 2 million who live in other parts of Southeast Europe (Albania, Bosnia, Bulgaria, Croatia, Greece, Montenegro, Romania, Serbia, Slovenia).

SoM, enough is enough is 100% right, and that is what we all need to be saying. UMD first needs to build up the base of the Macedonian Diaspora. That is why we will be conducting community presentations in almost all Macedonian communities in the world. In June at the UMD Global Conference, UMD will hold leadership training for leaders in our communities to become more effective leaders. We also need to invest in the youth - our future - if we want to see a strong continuation of what we have started.

[Prolet]

UMD, How will UMD help other countries recognize Macedonia? You mentioned a stratergy, now that the UMD is opening an office in Paris i would assume that you would be trying to push the Western EU countries into recognizing us and this will be tough.

In all honesty we should be pushing Portugal and Spain to recognize us, with the EU Presidency shifting to Spain this is a good chance to strengthen our relations with Spain and Portugal.

Having said that, being that the head office of the UMD is in Washington DC i believe that Central and South America should be heavily targeted aswell for future name recognitions i see no reason why no these countries in America wouldnt recognize us, however its not just that in order for us to gain recognition we have to establish diplomatic relations and the Macedonian Foreign Ministry needs to be pushing this too.