United Macedonia Diaspora

[Soldier of Macedon]

Let me make one thing clear, despite this issue quickly becoming and us vs them situation, I am not for one or the other 100% because both sides are making claims that aren't exactly alligned with the truth.

UMD........as the leading Macedonian organization in the world.....need to show diplomacy to earn the respect of the European countries who did not give us the support during the Council of Ministers meetings.

The leading Macedonian organisation? Above all else? Such a massive yet vague statement, perhaps you need to re-word that to reflect what is actual, for example, it wouldn't have bothered me if the following was written: "UMD are a diaspora organisation leading the way in lobbying for support from the world for recognition of the Macedonians"......or something similar that doesn't make it out like everybody else is in support of and answerable to you, which is clearly not the case.

I too recall that Meto or someone else from the UMD wrote that they represent "all the Macedonians in the diaspora" or something to that effect, this was probably erased by the dictator at maknews during his bouts of cleansing. However, I recall this statement making reference to the diaspora, and not all Macedonians in the world. Nevertheless, both are incorrect.

At the same time, this;

UMD were anti-Macedonian from the begginning

I don't agree with. But then again, the particulars of Macedonism between Pelister and Meto may differ in many respects, the former is uncompromising, the latter appears a little too compromising - And NOBODY saying "fellas, let's meet at the middle table and talk about the best way, combined, going forward", instead, one side continues to veer right, and the other left, and the Macedonian mass in the centre remain divided.

He has left some trails on MacedonianMediaMonitor (Yahoo groups) which are indicative of his foggy political ideology, from my perspective.

Ok, are you going to reveal what these 'trails' are? Or is lack of transparency (which I assume you are accusing Meto of with his 'foggy' ideology) the way to go these days? Help the picture get a little clearer for the average observer like myself. If Meto is that bad, then let us see why.

[indigen]

Indy how could this possibly state what you guys have been claiming? I do not see the word "ALL" before Macedonians. This is the exact quote;

Again someone put a spin on this and started to state that the UMD "said that they represent ALL Macedonians around the world". When in fact they simply state "Macedonians" i.e. could be some, could be many, could be 9 people. Obviously you and Pelister don't have the UMD view so fair enough. They don't represent you.

Mate, I have read the claim where they ACTUALLY stated "ALL" on Maknews! :-)

When in fact they simply state "Macedonians" i.e. could be some, could be many, could be 9 people.
Or it could mean ALL Macedonians and Macedonian Communities around the world! It is a deliberately ambiguous (cheap) propaganda statement and "UMD" should quickly change this and clarify that they represent their membership only if they wish to avoid further animosity.

[indigen]

Let me make one thing clear, despite this issue quickly becoming and us vs them situation, I am not for one or the other 100% because both sides are making claims that aren't exactly alligned with the truth.

Are you including me in your "both sides" assumption?

If you are, what are the claims that I have made that "aren't exactly aligned with the truth" as you see it? Bear in mind that "the truth" is a very subjective thing.

The leading Macedonian organisation? Above all else? Such a massive yet vague statement, perhaps you need to re-word that to reflect what is actual, for example, it wouldn't have bothered me if the following was written: "UMD are a diaspora organisation leading the way in lobbying for support from the world for recognition of the Macedonians"......or something similar that doesn't make it out like everybody else is in support of and answerable to you, which is clearly not the case.

I concur, well said and I think many others will agree with this conclusion.

I too recall that Meto or someone else from the UMD wrote that they represent "all the Macedonians in the diaspora" or something to that effect, this was probably erased by the dictator at maknews during his bouts of cleansing. However, I recall this statement making reference to the diaspora, and not all Macedonians in the world. Nevertheless, both are incorrect.

I will look around for it and post if I find it.

Ok, are you going to reveal what these 'trails' are? Or is lack of transparency (which I assume you are accusing Meto of with his 'foggy' ideology) the way to go these days? Help the picture get a little clearer for the average observer like myself. If Meto is that bad, then let us see why.

I may or may not but the lead to where the info can be found I clearly indicated. One does not need to read these newsgroup posts to see that Meto's ideology is foggy, one can easily deduce this from his numerous online letters, interviews and media releases. In fact there was a very long thread running here sometime ago that may be worth revisiting (Click here - United Macedonian Diaspora)

[Pelister]

The president of UMD is caught on youtube suggesting we change our name, not once but twice.

It is coming from his own mouth.

The question is do we ignore it ?

As for what Indigen is saying about the "fogginess" that UMD creates around issues central to our existence, I agree with him.

I think that UMD a slippery people, who not so long ago were asking for us to change our name. They will never reject the negotiations, even though this is what I have been asking them to do for about a year now.

The contradictions in their statements are the result of statements they were freely making less than a year ago, about a name change, and support for the negotations ...etc. UMD members argue they have changed. Some argue that they were never for a name change, nor our admission to NATO as FYROM, and that they have never supported the negotiations. The evidence tells otherwise.

I think they a slick, I think they are young and I think they are trying to worm their way into our affections with "UMD Condemns ...etc".

Will they publicly reject and denounce the negotiations I wonder ? If they do, we can add another contradiction to the list of many.

I don't trust them. I think they are fundamentally Trajkovski'ists, because they have posted classic anti-Macedonian Trajkovski'ism's in the past.

[Risto the Great]

perhaps you need to re-word that to reflect what is actual, for example, it wouldn't have bothered me if the following was written: "UMD are a diaspora organisation leading the way in lobbying for support from the world for recognition of the Macedonians"......or something similar that doesn't make it out like everybody else is in support of and answerable to you, which is clearly not the case.

I too recall that Meto or someone else from the UMD wrote that they represent "all the Macedonians in the diaspora" or something to that effect, this was probably erased by the dictator at maknews during his bouts of cleansing. However, I recall this statement making reference to the diaspora, and not all Macedonians in the world. Nevertheless, both are incorrect.

Some excellent points SoM.
The key here is that the UMD appears to rely on the fact that it represents the will of the Diaspora. It has gained acceptance and is acknowledged largely because of this. Any attempt to suggest it only represents the will of its members is a little de-meaning and misleading.

[indigen]

Some excellent points SoM.
The key here is that the UMD appears to rely on the fact that it represents the will of the Diaspora. It has gained acceptance and is acknowledged largely because of this. Any attempt to suggest it only represents the will of its members is a little de-meaning and misleading.

RTG, would you care to clarify the point I highlighted? Demeaning and misleading for whom, "UMD"?

Secondly, I would have thought that any legally registered organisation can only reflect the will of its members based on their governing constitution and fail to see how it can be otherwise.

Lastly, if "UMD" was incorporated in Australia as a not-for-profit association or public company, no Executive Committee Member or Director would be allowed to receive payment because that would create a vested interest for such members to perpetuate control of the organisation. Do we have such vested interest in the current status with the USA registration of "UMD"?

[Risto the Great]

RTG, would you care to clarify the point I highlighted? Demeaning and misleading for whom, "UMD"?

Demeaning and misleading to the Diaspora who genuinely believe the UMD is voicing the opinion of the Diaspora at large.

[indigen]

Demeaning and misleading to the Diaspora who genuinely believe the UMD is voicing the opinion of the Diaspora at large.

Thanks for clarification.

IMO,I don't think that a majority of the Macedonian diaspora have even heard of "UMD" let alone think that it represents them.

I remember back 1994, at the hight of Macedonian reaction to "Slav-Macedonian" Prefix Directive of AU Gov., there was this one highly active individual (Vik.) in NSW who was doing a lot of media publicity work for the Macedonian cause and casually invented a "Macedonian Council of NSW" that did not exist in order to give "more weight" to the press releases. Thus I have learnt not to take too seriously the claims of representation by Macedonian (and many other ethnic) organisations.

[indigen]

Minutes and notes to the meetings. Make them available !

Then, please explain why the President of UMD was calling for a name change ? (Please for the benefit of all of us).

And while our at it, explain to the rest of us (ignorant) Macedonians why in your statements you support our admission to NATO by the acronym FYROM ?

And then explain, why in your statements you back these negotiations ?

And finally, why won't UMD issue a statement rejecting the negotiations, and ask the Macedonian leadership to end it ?

Very valid points when you take the following into consideration:

Meto Koloski: "UMD’s membership wants Macedonia to pull out of negotiations, end the Interim Accord, and not discuss Macedonia’s name and identity. UMD has taken this approach and this is the official policy of the organization."

It seems Meto and Co are IGNORING the directives of their membership and just doing what they please. More questions need to be asked and answers provided, IMO.

[Risto the Great]

It seems Meto and Co are IGNORING the directives of their membership and just doing what they please. More questions need to be asked and answers provided, IMO.

I am all for constructive criticism in relation to the UMD. I am not sure we know the directives of the UMD membership. However, the specific issue you raised here (namely UMD’s membership wants Macedonia to pull out of negotiations, end the Interim Accord, and not discuss Macedonia’s name and identity) is pretty much what the Diaspora wants.

I see no need to bash just for the sake of bashing. There are other more concerning issues that I have previously stated on this forum that I feel the UMD should address.

[UMDiaspora.org]

Macedonian-American Organizations Form 2010 U.S. Census Coalition

It’s time for all Macedonians to stand up and be counted. For the first time, this is possible as leaders from major Macedonian organizations in the United States are committed to seeing that each Macedonian is counted in the 2010 U.S. Census, which begins in January. To accomplish this goal, they formed the Macedonian American 2010 Census Project Coalition.

Read full press release at http://www.umdiaspora.org

[Pelister]

Havn't the Macedonians already had the option of declaring themselves in past U.S census questions ?

[Risto the Great]

Havn't the Macedonians already had the option of declaring themselves in past U.S census questions ?

So have Macedonians in Australia.
But many are too stupid to do declare as such.
It is a good initiative in the USA.

[Prolet]

Risto, We still have Macedonians who declare themselves as Greeks,Serbs,Yugoslavs etc We got a long way to go aswell.

[Risto the Great]

Exactly Prolet.