United Macedonia Diaspora

[Makedonska_Kafana]

Yes, "UMD".


I don't want to speculate on anything past 1990, and mainly for Australia, thus please enlighten me (and the readers).

Well, look back it gives you the idea of what the goal was back then. ALL organizations under ONE umbrella - board members are elected officials every 3 years. Size, of the board depends on the number of organizations involved.

ACCOUNTABILITY

NOTE

See, this would help the smaller organizations like the film festivals and give them a better chance to make it in the long term - financial support coming from several sources.

Pay $ no attention to the blind UMD supporters because I'm much wiser then they would like to have you believe - champion aka WMD

[indigen]

Well, look back it gives you the idea of what the goal was back then. ALL organizations under ONE umbrella - board members are elected officials every 3 years. Size, of the board depends on the number of organizations involved.

ACCOUNTABILITY

MPO rings a bell but I have no real knowledge of them as an organisation because they were minuscule in Australia and I only know them from their anti-Macedonian propaganda. Though the Bugaromani in dPmNE tried to promote them to be seen as a "Macedonian" organisation and (seeing how they failed in that endeavour) it makes sense that another front organisation ("UMD") is promoted that is more marketable amongst the Macedonians.

[Makedonska_Kafana]

MPO rings a bell but I have no real knowledge of them as an organisation because they were minuscule in Australia and I only know them from their anti-Macedonian propaganda. Though the Bugaromani in dPmNE tried to promote them to be seen as a "Macedonian" organisation and (seeing how they failed in that endeavour) it makes sense that another front organisation ("UMD") is promoted that is more marketable amongst the Macedonians.

Bato, I hope you're not the guy the UMD appointed down under because that would not look to good to our readers and very foolish ..

hahahaha uste toa mu kusi sega

YouTube - ‪Mohombi - Bumpy Ride‬‏

You, know who you're talking to here? I love this kind of action .. search and destroy missions

[indigen]

Bato, I hope you're not the guy the UMD appointed down under because that would not look to good to our readers and very foolish ..

hahahaha uste toa mu kusi sega

Umoren si i treba malku da prestanis so pisuvanje na forumi, taka mi izgleda!

[Makedonska_Kafana]

Umoren si iterba malku da prestanis so pisuvanje na forumi, taka im ilgleda!

well, can you just imagine the field day (years) i would have with your posts if that was the case? you, even insulted them .. hahahaha

[indigen]

It seems like they have provided a "regional" (read Bulgarian) character/identity to some of the other statues going up in Skopje.

And, BY IMPLICATION, THEY HAVE DONE THE SAME FOR THE MACEDONIAN HISTORICAL NATIONAL IDENTITY (ETHONGENISIS)!!! This a TREASONOUS ACT OF THE HIGHEST ORDER and should have caused OUTRAGE amongst right-thinking Macedonians and their organizations but we are witness to utter silence.

http://www.novinite.com/media/images/2011-04/photo_verybig_127542.jpg

------------------

Hey UMDovci what action have you taken to condemn this blatant act of anti-Macedonian historical revisionism?

The OBVIOUS CONCLUSION we can draw from the above joint commemorations is the one about the "ONE PEOPLE, TWO COUNTRIES" anti-Macedonian propaganda spin emanating from Bulgaria and Bulgaromani, which undermines Macedonian ethnogenesis right at the roots!

[George S.]

Beuatifully put.Isn't there a saying divide & conquer.The problem is not just the invaders & their propaganda.But it's our own people who are exposed to the propaganda & actually beleive that propaganda.They in effect become tools for the invaders to use.It's amazing how easily they want compromise & capitulation.They actually beleive that they are slavs and not macedonians & so forward the past glory to their enemies.

[vicsinad]

I believe it does without question.
It shows Macedonia's desire to uphold an agreement which undoubtedly deconstructed Macedonia's sovereignty. This court case legitimises the capitulations of the past. It is salt in the wound and represents nothing positive for Macedonia.

Maybe. But maybe, if played correctly, it can be used to gain further international support and legitimacy in the overall dispute if Macedonia wins. Now, of course Macedonia shouldn't have to because established international laws and principles already support a path of self-determination for Macedonia. But we live in a world where none of the powers, and none of our neighbors, follow international law or principles -- might has always been right in their eyes. Is this court case the best way to gain international support to head back on a path toward full rights to self-determination over our name and identity? Maybe not. And probably Macedonia isn't playing the card for this purpose: the government is using this court case more so to gain admission into NATO. I simply think that whatever path Macedonia takes, there is no fair outcome for her. She has to do something, and because we already are on a roll with the international community (130 countries recognizing our constitutional name), it may be beneficial to continue playing this game.

I don't like the IMF, NATO, and EU. Even without the name dispute, these organizations deconstruct sovereignty. Macedonians should ask themselves: "Should we desire to be in NATO or the EU, regardless of the name dispute?"

[Makedonska_Kafana]

And probably Macedonia isn't playing the card for this purpose: the government is using this court case more so to gain admission into NATO.

100% the case, but willing to accept fyrom which we TOTALLY appose and reject.

Macedonians should ask themselves: "Should we desire to be in NATO or the EU, regardless of the name dispute?"

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=5539

World Macedonian Diaspora

Secret, that poll was not setup to see a yes or no result .. not, how I operate and the numbers mean nothing. I had two goals and both have worked very well.

[rujnovino]

I don't like the IMF, NATO, and EU. Even without the name dispute, these organizations deconstruct sovereignty. Macedonians should ask themselves: "Should we desire to be in NATO or the EU, regardless of the name dispute?"

The 2001 invasion was an essential pre-requisit to forcing the Framework Agreement. It was an invasion in which the ARM showed itself to be unable to defend the country's borders.

One can only speculate how that invasion would have played out, if RoM were a NATO member in 2001, or what, if any, difference it would have made, if RoM had been "non-member partner" of NATO, as it has positioned itself now.

Vicsinad, which one do you think deconstructs sovereignty more: the FA, or NATO membership? The same?

[vicsinad]

Rujnovino: I don't think the invasion showed that RoM was incapable of defending its borders. But even if it did, I don't think that being in NATO was/is the only way for Macedonia to defend its borders. A lot of Macedonia's inabilities stemmed from Greek policy and internal mismanagement. Still, even being in NATO won't guarantee the security of our borders. What happens when every European country is in NATO? We are forced into a military partnership with countries that have systematically tried to destroy Macedonia. Further, our foreign policy then becomes one that is "controlled" by the latest American, UK, and French desires.

I haven't compared and contrasted the FA with NATO enough, or for that matter studied the FA enough, to give a meaningful answer. I think the FA made Macedonia an atypical country in the Balkans with the rights and freedoms it's supposed to guarantee for its minorities. I assume this wouldn't undermine Macedonian soveriengty if other countries had in place similar measures, or if the FA wasn't forced on Macedonia.

I guess maybe an important question is figuring out what we mean by national sovereignty and how it can be acheived?

[rujnovino]

Rujnovino: I don't think the invasion showed that RoM was incapable of defending its borders. But even if it did, I don't think that being in NATO was/is the only way for Macedonia to defend its borders. A lot of Macedonia's inabilities stemmed from Greek policy and internal mismanagement. Still, even being in NATO won't guarantee the security of our borders. What happens when every European country is in NATO? We are forced into a military partnership with countries that have systematically tried to destroy Macedonia. Further, our foreign policy then becomes one that is "controlled" by the latest American, UK, and French desires.

I haven't compared and contrasted the FA with NATO enough, or for that matter studied the FA enough, to give a meaningful answer. I think the FA made Macedonia an atypical country in the Balkans with the rights and freedoms it's supposed to guarantee for its minorities. I assume this wouldn't undermine Macedonian soveriengty if other countries had in place similar measures, or if the FA wasn't forced on Macedonia.

I guess maybe an important question is figuring out what we mean by national sovereignty and how it can be acheived?

Indeed, and well said.

I am wary of many of those points you raised, which are very valid. But, the ARM did clearly fail to protect our borders in 2001, I think that's a fact - as for whether it was "capable" and simply didn't, that's another story.

I'm also wary about the various aspects of NATO membership that raise, but I'm not sure that the more isolated from international treaties and agreements you are, the more sovereign power you have. For instance, Cuba is a very isolated country, but I'm not sure that it is more free from foreign interference in its sovereignty than, say, Costa Rica. Who has more power to control its own fate, long-term... North or South Korea? I would suggest it may be South Korea, despite the fact that it has made decisions which clearly benefit the American empire in the short term.

[vicsinad]

I don't think that Macedonia would necessarily be following an isolationist path if they walk away from NATO. There are plenty of other regional and international agreements and cooperations that they can, and already have, sign onto. Further, they are still a UN member, which may be the most legitimate international organization.

Of course, the South Korea v. North Korea is a good example. Although there is a distinct difference between being AGAINST anything to do with the Western Powers and actually promoting the interests of the Western Powers. Power will shift one day, and that can leave Macedonia worse off if it aligns to closely with the interests of the US or UK.

As an American, I'm personally opposed to NATO irrespective of anything to do with Macedonia. So of course this biases my view with regards to whether Macedonia should be in it or not.

[Makedonska_Kafana]

I'm personally opposed to NATO irrespective of anything to do with Macedonia.

You, have my full support and I too am very anti New World Order organizations.

[vicsinad]

MK: Thanks