United Macedonia Diaspora

[stravdziger]

Hey, screwdriver, why is it that whenever one UMD apologist re-appears at the MTO they are followed by their fellow apologists (you, for example)? Do all of you clowns live in Meto's basement and share the one PC?

Lazy - that's what you are, SoM. Instead, you ought to follow young Meto's example, and get off your ass for a change, if you care for Macedonia the way you proclaim... but its so much easier for you to write pages of anti-UMD venom... so much easier than actually contributing to the Macedonian cause.

[Makedonska_Kafana]

screw i would assume that you have attended 90% of UMD events the past 5 years? If yes, what was the average age? if no, dosta ..

are you on the canadian committee? honesty does matter to UMD or does it?

[Soldier of Macedon]

Just because I don't support the morons at the UMD like yourself does not mean I am lazy, screwdriver, I am just passionate and would rather dedicate myself to something worthwhile and uncompromised. If I see something I consider anti-Macedonian, I am on it. Go and ask "young" Meto how I defended him time and again on the net back in the early stages before you try and paint a false picture of me. I changed my mind about the UMD relatively recently when compared to others who saw their treachery long ago. I was prepared to give them the benefit of doubt for a long time, but not anymore.

My friends and I have managed to create and maintain a successful Macedonian website that conveys the true sentiments of the Macedonian people, in particular the Macedonian Diaspora, from where the majority of our members are. On the internet, on-line, the Macedonian Truth Organisation IS the voice of the Macedonian Diaspora. Try and downplay it, buddy, try and tell me that Meto and his fellow clowns don't feel the need to post their garbage and promote themselves here.

Speaking of which, what exactly have you done to further the Macedonian Cause, screwdriver?

[Makedonska_Kafana]

once upon a time meto made a statement that the UMD (anyone directly involved) was no longer going to reply to posts on public forums and if people had questions they should email washington dc.

not sure what to believe or trust these days .. defense never stopped and many questions remain unanswered.

[Vangelovski]

well, yes, your ranting against UMD has indeed been cited time and again, but the number of repetitions doesn't make your diatribes any more true... no one suits the term "goon" better than you

We cite UMD's own words from their own press releases and public statements. Thats what makes them TRUE.

[stravdziger]

Harper acted with human decency by recognising Macedonia, and the UMD kissed his arse. Dance around it however you want.

You don't even make sense... dance around what? Macedonia has these large organizations in places like Australia who are so incredibly passive and backstabbing... it's no wonder the Republic and our minorities in Egej and Pirin are so abused. I wish all the Macedonian groups had the access to make alliances like the UMD does. I'm so glad that we have a group which finally "gets it". You want Macedonians to sit around waiting for freedom to fall into our hands, but you have to take it, man. That's not called "kissing arse" you toothless hillbilly, its called advocacy

Where did I say it was impossible? What do you know about our activities here, and what we are planning?

hahahaha what a pile of kangaroo shit. You switch from a defeatist attitude to a "mystery plan" approach... I think you're planning to make yourself a sandwich, and then you're planning to go back to the computer to waste another few years ranting about UMD, because you can't get your organization's shit together... that's what I think your plan is, SOM. I would love for you to stop pretending, and prove me wrong.

Not in my city chump, but I am sure the Macedonians in Rockdale will address this issue with him.

Yeh, they'll probably send an angry email, you fellas are prolly pretty good at that. But, there's a lot more to advocacy than that, time for our brothers across the world to focus on who the real enemy is

Are you kidding me, or are you just a complete idiot that is incapable of digesting the truth?

you wouldn't know the truth if slapped you in the face, SOM... why can't your organization stand on its own two feet? why does it have to busy itself with knocking other organizations, and viewing them strictly as competition for donor dollars? Our people aren't stupid, they see through your bullshit. You're not fooling anyone.

[Vangelovski]

Yes, yes, I know you work for AMHRC, but that's not what I meant. What I'm interested to know is: don't you think there is a responsibility for a group such as UMD or AMHRC or whoever to reach out to those in power, to try to work with and influence those in power who align themselves responsibly regarding Macedonia, as well as resist those who ally themselves with Macedonia's enemy? The negative reinforcement strategy alone is not nearly as effective as a carrot and stick approach. As for anti-Macedonian views, the only one espousing those is you and your mates. Macedonian groups need to cooperate and respect each other, but you save your angry rants exclusively for the UMD, it is very suspicious.

I'm not affiliated with the AMHRC.

UMD does not represent the Macedonian Diaspora. If it did, its policy positions would be very different. You still have not addressed the fact that UMD has proposed name changes, accepted others and supports the Interim Accord and Framework Agreement. How exactly are UMD "taking" freedom as opposed to preaching slavery?

[stravdziger]

We cite UMD's own words from their own press releases and public statements. Thats what makes them TRUE.

You cleverly twist the truth to fit your organization's needs, Vangelovski, whereas your friend SOM just runs his mouth

[Vangelovski]

You cleverly twist the truth to fit your organization's needs, Vangelovski, whereas your friend SOM just runs his mouth

I am not currently affiliated with any organisation. They are exact citations - sources are provided.

My guess is you are another UMD Board Member LYING under the cover of a fake internet name. We have already uncovered other UMD Board Members LYING on here, using fake internet names.

[Makedonska_Kafana]

UMD does not represent the Macedonian Diaspora

TRUE

Long before they existed (100 years ago) many people worked very hard to only now have these NEW KIDS ON THE BLOCK think in their own minds that they have the majority of support in Diaspora.

I dare the UMD to post anything anti USA Government Policy, UN or NATO - don't have the parts aka mundi

[stravdziger]

I'm not affiliated with the AMHRC.

I doubt it....

UMD does not represent the Macedonian Diaspora. If it did, its policy positions would be very different. You still have not addressed the fact that UMD has proposed name changes, accepted others and supports the Interim Accord and Framework Agreement.

I'll let Meto and his colleagues "address" your concerns, Vangelovski, but all I can say is that your propaganda campaign stinks, and it is the definition of anti-Macedonian... I strongly doubt your motives. Your organization AMHRC should be praised for many useful initiatives, like the recent billboard campaign, which I thought was great. But still there are always some loudmouths at the member level down there who seem unable to contain their hostility to their fellow Macedonians, but it's just noise, in the end. Results are what count, and as long as any Macedonian group produces results, they'll get my support and the general support of the community. Anyone selling snake oil / conspiracy theories or purposefully sowing division will remain in obscurity.

[Makedonska_Kafana]

are you on the canadian organizing committee?

[Risto the Great]

People in Macedonia dying and starving or “Democratic Republic of Macedonia”?

To be fair, it was a long time ago.
Now it is "People in Europe dying and starving or “Republic of Macedonia”?

I know my choice.

[Vangelovski]

By supporting the Interim Accord and the Framework Agreement, this is what UMD is in favour of:

The full text of the Interim Accord (from the UN database) can be found here:

http://untreaty.un.org/unts/120001_1...3/00004456.pdf

Key Articles in the Interim Accord which Undermine Macedonian Sovereignty

a) Macedonia agrees to negotiate over its name (Article 5);

b) Macedonia agrees to renounce all claims to its ethnic/historic territory and agrees NOT to pursue the rights of Macedonians not only in Greece but in ANY OTHER STATE (Article 6);

c) Macedonia agrees to renounce the Sonce as its national symbol AND any other symbols that Greece considers to be part of its historic or cultural heritage (Article 7);

d) Macedonia agrees to only enter international organisations under FYROM (Article 11); and

e) Macedonia agrees that the two parties will not “resolve” the name dispute through the International Court of Justice (Article 21).



The full text of the Framework Agreement can be found here:

http://faq.macedonia.org/politics/fr..._agreement.pdf

Key points in the Framework Agreement:

The Framework Agreement makes Macedonia:

a) a multi-national state – effectively, any minority that can muster 20 per cent of the population becomes a constitutive nation. Theoretically, Macedonia can become a nation-state of up to five nations. Further, Macedonians themselves could lose constitutive nation status if their proportion of the population fell below 20 per cent;

b) a multi-lingual state – currently, Macedonia has two official languages and this could go up to five. Theoretically, Macedonian could also lose its official status;

c) a multi-religious state – official status has been provided not only to Christianity, but Islam as well, making Macedonia (in part) an Islamic state.

d) a racist state – with the Badinter principle (certain laws need a majority of parliamentarians and a majority of ethnic minority parliamentarians to pass), Macedonia provides undue veto power to a minority of citizens based solely on their ethnicity. Further, the Framework Agreement provides state employment to citizens based on ethnicity rather than merit;

e) a segregated state – rather than integrating minorities into the Macedonian mainstream, the Framework Agreement only further segregates the population by allowing ethnic minorities to develop politically independent of the mainstream (and of each other) without reciprocal civic responsibilities towards Macedonian society as a whole. This is particularly evident in how ethnic Albanians have refused to learn Macedonian, citing the Framework Agreement, and integrate into mainstream society. The decentralisation process (based along ethnic lines rather than economically-sustainable districts) has resulted in ethnic “enclaves” where minorities are becoming more segregated (politically and culturally) rather than integrating into wider society.

The Framework Agreement was a capitulation to extremists who engaged in terrorist acts. These extremists have now been guaranteed political power and positions in state institutions and security structures.

[Vangelovski]

I doubt it....




I'll let Meto and his colleagues "address" your concerns, Vangelovski, but all I can say is that your propaganda campaign stinks, and it is the definition of anti-Macedonian... I strongly doubt your motives. Your organization AMHRC should be praised for many useful initiatives, like the recent billboard campaign, which I thought was great. But still there are always some loudmouths at the member level down there who seem unable to contain their hostility to their fellow Macedonians, but it's just noise, in the end. Results are what count, and as long as any Macedonian group produces results, they'll get my support and the general support of the community. Anyone selling snake oil / conspiracy theories or purposefully sowing division will remain in obscurity.

You still haven't addressed UMD's anti-Macedonian policy positions, including acceptance of name changes, proposals for new names and support for the Interim Accord and Framework Agreement.