United Macedonia Diaspora

[makedonche]

Sorry Makedonche! I withdraw my remark.

Mr Brandy
Apology accepted, welcome to the MTO, the best Macedonian forum around barr none!

[Risto the Great]

Ok, I concede that. I didn't read the whole thing, no. You're right, SoM, I'll do some of that reading, as you suggest.

This part is nice. It confirms you have no idea what the UMD sentiment used to be. I will summarise it for you. We made a genuine attempt to understand what they stood for and a hope that real efforts would be made to reconcile past statements with current actions. The UMD failed miserably.

That's a surprise, tolerance isn't a word that comes to mind.

Back to silly responses which contradict your statement above about conceding ignorance of the previous discussions in the thread.

While we're on the topic, what's your beef with Kostoff? I'm curious.

Kostoff is a strong proponent of a Slav Macedonian identity it would appear. It appears he is infatuated with the UMD nowadays. Who knows what Macedonia will be called next.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/05/24/1931850.htm

South Australian Premier Mike Rann has been accused of marginalising the Macedonian community.

Mr Rann, visiting Greece earlier this month, was quoted in a Greek newspaper saying that neighbouring Macedonia was "as Greek as the Acropolis".

The comment on the heated dispute about history and territory has insulted Steve Kostoff, who represents South Australia's Macedonians.

"The Premier has marginalised our community time and time again, time will show that Mr Rann is incorrect in marginalising the Macedonian community," he said.

Mr Kostoff says Greek and Macedonian cultures are not one and the same and has written to the Premier's office demanding an apology.

"Not only is our culture different but our language and our history, our religion are different. The distinction between what is actually a Slav Macedonian and a Greek is very obvious, particularly to us," he said.

He does not represent me.

[Mr Brandy]

This part is nice. It confirms you have no idea what the UMD sentiment used to be. I will summarise it for you. We made a genuine attempt to understand what they stood for and a hope that real efforts would be made to reconcile past statements with current actions. The UMD failed miserably.


Back to silly responses which contradict your statement above about conceding ignorance of the previous discussions in the thread.


Kostoff is a strong proponent of a Slav Macedonian identity it would appear. It appears he is infatuated with the UMD nowadays. Who knows what Macedonia will be called next.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/05/24/1931850.htm

He does not represent me.

Hi Risto - has Steve made this claim many times publicly. Is it possible that he just messed up on camera - did you ever question him about this stance?

[Mikail]

@mvb9999, I hope you go back through the 181 pages in this thread and answer some of the questions raised about the UMD organisation. Your President has chosen to ignore our requests for transparency and has in turn drawn a very deep and large black cloud over the UMD organisation.

[Risto the Great]

Hi Risto - has Steve made this claim many times publicly. Is it possible that he just messed up on camera - did you ever question him about this stance?

It was an awful mess up. I contacted the local community about it an expressed my concerns. He could have said he was mis-quoted or something I suppose ... but I am not sure how.

I do not believe he has had many other opportunities to thrust himself into the media spotlight in a similar fashion. How many chances would you give a "community representative"?

[mvb9999]

This part is nice. It confirms you have no idea what the UMD sentiment used to be. I will summarise it for you. We made a genuine attempt to understand what they stood for and a hope that real efforts would be made to reconcile past statements with current actions. The UMD failed miserably.

Back to silly responses which contradict your statement above about conceding ignorance of the previous discussions in the thread.

Sorry, RTG, it's a pretty huge thread. I started at the beginning, saw some pretty stupid anti-semitic comments from your members, skipped ahead a bit, saw some tedious back and forth with Vangelovski, skipped ahead a bit more... haven't detected the miserable failure that you suggest, but I'll keep looking for it.

In the meantime, I can promise you this - I'll be as open-minded to anything you have to say as possible.

Kostoff is a strong proponent of a Slav Macedonian identity it would appear. It appears he is infatuated with the UMD nowadays. Who knows what Macedonia will be called next.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/05/24/1931850.htm

He does not represent me.

Ok, I can easily respect that, RTG. I suppose if he's a "strong proponent" of the term, he's been quoted as using it or promoting it elsewhere as well?

In any case, if we're talking about the same Kostoff, and I think we are, I can say I met the guy at the Toronto conference, and I found him to be a smart, friendly bloke with a lot of passion for Macedonia, and I liked him immediately. However, I don't like the term Slav Macedonian.

That being said, I'm not going to crucify him for allegedly using it in absentia. Same goes for people who used to be MPO, or people who are ferociously anti-this or pro-that. I'm sort of sick of all of these Macedonian litmus tests that have cropped up recently - it seems you have to talk and walk a particular way, or someone is all too ready to disown you completely from the Macedonian family, like we have lots of extra people hanging around, and we are in a position to disown them.

He's not a member of MTO is he? If not, too bad. It would be nice to hear it from the horse's mouth, and discuss it further.

[Soldier of Macedon]

I'll stick around till your deletion trigger finger gets ichy again, I guess, or until I lose interest, whichever comes first.

You're of no value, so feel free to leave whenever you wish. Otherwise, you can remain so long as you respect the house rules. Couldn't care less really, just wanted to address the lies you were spreading at Maknews, I am sure you can bury yourself from here.

Or the subject that you deleted?

Clarify for everybody here, did that useless one-liner thread you created consist of anything other than a short rant against those that don't support the UMD here? Come on, tell us all of the great information posted.

As for the subject, let's give it the umbrella term of UMD 'integrity', we have discussed this ad infinium here, and along comes you, a year later, to tell us how it is and how we are all "anti" UMD in your first rant. Shape up buddy.

I haven't lost interest yet

Oh please stop it, you're hurting our feelings.......look mate, you're free to fly away whenever you like.

Sticks and stones, SoM

Yeah, if you say so, lol.

You just control yourself from slamming the panic button and deleting people

Show me the exampleS (capital S to indicate plural, as your case merely rests on your first rant and nothing more).

Plenty... sorry you couldn't make it.

Don't be sorry, I'm not. And plenty is a great answer in a typically vague manner that one has come to expect from people in your organisation. Perhaps you can be the 'man' that changes our opinion, lord knows that Meto and co. failed miserably.

While we're on the topic, what's your beef with Kostoff? I'm curious.

Use the search function on the forum, educate yourself, trust me, it will do you good.

[Vangelovski]

MVB,

You've made so many unsubstantiated statements here, but the one that was most telling is when you called SoM an "extremist".

Please explain. Why?

[mvb9999]

@mvb9999, I hope you go back through the 181 pages in this thread and answer some of the questions raised about the UMD organisation. Your President has chosen to ignore our requests for transparency and has in turn drawn a very deep and large black cloud over the UMD organisation.

Hi Mikail,
As mentioned, I'll try my best to work my way through the thread. I actually did comment on several questions in my first, lengthly post, but apparently I broke some sort of regulation, and SoM unceremoniously dumped it.

FYI - I do not speak for UMD, but I am pro-UMD... if there's something in particular you want to bring up, please go ahead. Let's talk about it.

Cheers,

[Soldier of Macedon]

SOM - thanks for the answer. It confirms to me that we are on the same side. I should clarify that I was only insulted a couple of times here but several times on Maknews from what appeared to be MTO loyalists. I apologize if I have offended anyone. I don't actually disagree with the content of what most people are saying it - I guess I just don't like the style and I get my back up.

No problem MB, you will notice the earlier discussions are much more 'calmer' in nautre, the UMD's evasiveness is largely responsible for the impatience many now have.

[mvb9999]

MVB,

You've made so many unsubstantiated statements here, but the one that was most telling is when you called SoM an "extremist".

Please explain. Why?

Well, Mr. V, if you go back to see the context of that comment, you will see the personal diatribe that preceded it - I'd call that extreme by a country mile. I also think his deletion of my first post was an unreasonable way to deal with an argument he didn't like... he disagrees, apparently... so there it is.

Context is everything, isn't it...

[Vangelovski]

MVB,

I know that you get a pat on the back for vagueness at Maknews, but here we expect some details. What specifically did you find "extreme"?

[Soldier of Macedon]

That "diatribe" was in response to the perceived idiocy I saw being posted at Maknews that was aimed at myself and the MTO in general.

I actually did comment on several questions in my first, lengthly post,

Garbage, there was nothing but one or two lines where you went on the immediate attack against the people here, simply because they aren't followers of the UMD.

You do yourself no favours with your endless lies, and if there was any, ANY valid content at all in your first rant, you would have re-posted it. You haven't. Says alot about you, doesn't it? You would rather spend your time complaining about some phantom post than re-iterating your position.

[Soldier of Macedon]

MVB,

I know that you get a pat on the back for vagueness at Maknews, but here we expect some details. What specifically did you find "extreme"?

Answer the question mvb9999.

Am I extreme because I don't support the UMD?

Am I extreme for deleting an irrelevant one-liner rant and advising you to post future information about the UMD on the UMD dedicated thread?

One the one hand UMD apologists complain about the number of threads relating to the UMD, and on the other, they complain when these additional (and in your case useless) threads are deleted. Is integrity such a rare virtue among you people?

[Vangelovski]

SoM,

Its become apparant over the years that anyone who doesn't support the vassal policies instituted by Gligorov, Crvenkovski, Frckovski et al during the early 90's, and their by-products such as the Interim Accord, is an "extremist" according to UMD and its cheerleaders.

When Macedonian activists were calling for independence they were labelled as "extremists". When they spoke out against the Interim Accord, they were "extremists". When they spoke out against the Framework Agreement, they were "extremists". Now when they point out UMD's ideological flaws, again they are "extremists".