United Macedonia Diaspora

[indigen]

Originally Posted by amitreski
If the government of the Republic of Macedonia stopped the negotiations, UMD would be the first to applaud this decision.

Hello amitreski, welcome to this forum.
I feel a little frustrated with the UMD and wonder out loud whether there has ever been situations where the UMD has done quite the opposite in relation to decisions of the Macedonian Government. Has the UMD ever castigated (any of) the Government's decisions or actions at any point? Some people may in fact view the UMD as a voice or tool of the Macedonian Government. Does the Macedonian Diaspora need to blindly support the Government in power?

I have touched upon this in the past and have wondered what the UMD will do when it comes to a crossroad in ideology. Will it be prepared to lose relationships with the Government in power to assert itself? It has never done this in the past as far as I am aware.

Thank you for admitting the error in Meto's youthful statements. We still really do not have closure on this matter until he personally deals with it. The protracted nature of this line of query has ensured the UMD is not seen to be transparent and merely raises more questions about the true intent of this organisation.

How do you feel about the MPO alliance with UMD? What are your thoughts in relation to this organisation?

This discussion is on page 83 and one can read "interesting" input from "Chairman of the Board"!

[Buktop]

Good question Buktop. We keep such evidence on a role that we keep in the toilet!

Well without evidence then the accusations are nothing more than conspiracy theories aren't they?

Of course I do, it is here in my back pocket. And a little birdie taps on my window every hour to keep me updated.

Then the accusations are nothing more than conspiracy theories aren't they?

You are the one who denies much about the big money flying around the USA in all things Turkish. I gave you a bloody good example and suggest it would not be unreasonable to want to know why US$30 million dropped by 95% the following year. CIA .... who knows?

I never denied that the US government funded organizations similar to the TCA, I am questioning the veracity of Vangelovski's baseless allegation's that the grant match from the TCA was a government initiative aimed at "policy allignment." And without any proof these allegations are nothing more than conspiracy theories.

I have now said multiple times, ask TCA why their donations fell. I have given multiple options as to why and how their collections were so tremendous their first year of foundation, but until someone asks TCA we won't know. If you all are too afraid to ask them I will do so myself...

Who would have thought the following description meant to say "we are drug dealing, nuclear terrorists funded by the CIA looking to scam some land out of Iraq ... or something":

The American-Turkish Council (ATC) was created in 1994 as the U.S.-based counterpart to the Turkish-U.S. Business Council, a "bilateral business council" that aims to foster commercial relations between the United States and Turkey. It grew out of the "consolidation of the Turkish desk of the U.S. Chamber [of Commerce] with the American Friends of Turkey." (1, 2)

According to its web site, "As one of the leading business associations in the United States, the American-Turkish Council (ATC) is dedicated to effectively strengthening U.S.-Turkish relations through the promotion of commercial, defense, technology, and cultural relations. Its diverse membership includes Fortune 500, U.S. and Turkish companies, multinationals, nonprofit organizations, and individuals with an interest in U.S.-Turkish relations. Guided by member interests, ATC strives to enhance the growing ties between the United States and Turkey by initiating and facilitating efforts to increase investment and trade between the two countries." (2)

Irrespective of this, the UMD has formed coalitions in the past without thinking very much about them. You agreed in relation to the MPO. Perhaps it is a numbers game and (this time) this coalition works out ok

Well if you read the TCA's mission and activities information, they have quite a different goal than the ATC had. They don't seem to be involved in the same activities as the ATC were, and I don't see how anyone could come to the conclusion that the TCA is a government front simply because of $30 million dollars, especially after I exhibited that the Turkish American diaspora number in the 100's of thousands, and that there are some particularly affluent members of the community. Not only that, but their offices in Istanbul could also collect from fellow Turkish nationals. Their initial years collections could be explained merely by generous patrons donating a one time deal lump sum to help facilitate their establishment.

There are many different reasons that could explain the money, each of which more plausible and realistic than the conspiracy theory that Vangelovski has concocted.

[osiris]

buktop can you name a few more macedonian organizations who are being so generously funded by non macedonian sources.

[osiris]

i didnt vote because i think the answer is obvious that the umd is a new organization with limited membership very few achievements and absolutely no right to claim they represent anyone other than their leadership circle

[Soldier of Macedon]

Osiris, for statistical purposes if not for any other, cast your vote bro.

[Vangelovski]

The sheer number of Turkish organizations listed on the website should speak to the number of actual Turkish residents of the US. Do you think such a small community would need that many organizations? I actually just double checked your supposed number and you are mistaken about the number, the 2006 number is 170,000 turks in the US (http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet...T_G2000_B04003)
And the Encyclopedia of Cleveland History estimates up to 500,000 turks in the US... Where did you get 117k again?

Your link is to an estimate of numbers in between censuses. My figure came from the actual 2000 census (Download the Excel table with raw data here http://www.census.gov/population/www...y/anc2000.html). The Encyclopedia of Cleveland History can estimate as much as it likes. The fact is only 117,000 Americans identified themselves as Turks and that includes respondents who identified "Turkish" as a secondary identity.

[fyrOM]

SoM my answer Prolet Buktop ect was very tong in cheek. As for pogroms I have a very dry sense of humor and have to always check myself as many have said to me it is sometimes hard to tell when im joking and when im not.

[Vangelovski]

buktop can you name a few more macedonian organizations who are being so generously funded by non macedonian sources.

I'd like to know if Buktop has heard of any others as well.

Buktop,

I made no allegations, I'm merely putting it out there as one of many possibilities. I could be wrong, but the figures, US Government practice and UMD policy alignment with the State Department suggests that there could be some truth to the theory that UMD has in fact recieved some form of funding from the US Government.

I notice that UMD revenue was only $40,000 in 2008 (source is PDF and I'm happy to email or PM as it seems I cannot post it here). How on earth has UMD, even with the $50,000 per annum funding from TCA, managed to pay Meto a full-time salary, send him on a number of international roadshows and host global conferences (amongst actual charitable activities)?

[Daskalot]

I voted NO, they are only representing thier own self interest.

[Buktop]

Your link is to an estimate of numbers in between censuses. My figure came from the actual 2000 census (Download the Excel table with raw data here http://www.census.gov/population/www...y/anc2000.html). The Encyclopedia of Cleveland History can estimate as much as it likes. The fact is only 117,000 Americans identified themselves as Turks and that includes respondents who identified "Turkish" as a secondary identity.

And I trust the census bureau to know how to conduct a preliminary inter census estimation. The data displayed represents a 90% margin of error, meaning 90% accurate, and the upper and lower extremes of the estimation have been provided. This is direct data being published by the actual census bureau. They even provided their survey methods in a PDF at the bottom of the page.

I would also trust the Encyclopedia of Cleveland History to have done a bit more research into the topic than you or I have.

[Buktop]

buktop can you name a few more macedonian organizations who are being so generously funded by non macedonian sources.

Perhaps we should ask the TCA why they chose UMD? My guess would be that the TCA and the UMD offices in Washington DC are relatively close to eachother.

[Vangelovski]

And I trust the census bureau to know how to conduct a preliminary inter census estimation. The data displayed represents a 90% margin of error, meaning 90% accurate, and the upper and lower extremes of the estimation have been provided. This is direct data being published by the actual census bureau. They even provided their survey methods in a PDF at the bottom of the page.

I would also trust the Encyclopedia of Cleveland History to have done a bit more research into the topic than you or I have.

A few posts back you didn't trust the US Census Bureau to adminster the census, asking ridiculous questions such as "Do you know who administer's it", now you supposedly trust the same Bureau and accept a mid-census estimate.

Let's accept the 170,000 figure - its still a tiny minority.

I don't think the Encyclopeadia of Cleveleand History has "done more research" than the US Census Bureau, which has conducted an actual CENSUS.

Further, you don't trust the US Census Bureau to conduct a census, yet you trust the TCA enough to "tell us why they gave UMD the money". That's like asking Meto whether he supports a name change - he'll give you a slap on the back and tell you what you want to hear. Instead, how about providing ONE reason as to why a newly incorporated organisation would provide that much funding to an new organisation from another ethnic community?

[Buktop]

Buktop,

I made no allegations, I'm merely putting it out there as one of many possibilities. I could be wrong, but the figures, US Government practice and UMD policy alignment with the State Department suggests that there could be some truth to the theory that UMD has in fact recieved some form of funding from the US Government.

http://www.grants.gov/aboutgrants/eligibility.jsp
Nonprofits having a 501(c)(3) status with the IRS, other than institutions of higher education qualify for receiving government grants. Organizations may apply for government grants, that does not mean that the government gets to stipulate the grantee's policy.

I do agree that it could be a possibility, but then again it could be one of a million more plausible explanations that I would be willing to consider. The fact is, there is no proof, and from what I can tell, it isn't very realistic. As I said before, if you do not wish to contact TCA about the discrepancy, I would be more than willing to write them an e-mail.

I notice that UMD revenue was only $40,000 in 2008 (source is PDF and I'm happy to email or PM as it seems I cannot post it here). How on earth has UMD, even with the $50,000 per annum funding from TCA, managed to pay Meto a full-time salary, send him on a number of international roadshows and host global conferences (amongst actual charitable activities)?

Not sure, but I would be willing to take a look at the PDF if you sent it to me.

[Phoenix]

Its a NO vote from me...

I see UMD representing non-Macedonian interests generally and specifically the interests of its leader...Koloski uses UMD as a vehicle to secure a lucrative 'job' in his post UMD life.

[Soldier of Macedon]

SoM my answer Prolet Buktop ect was very tong in cheek. As for pogroms I have a very dry sense of humor and have to always check myself as many have said to me it is sometimes hard to tell when im joking and when im not.

No problem OziMak, I suspected it may have been that way but wasn't sure.